NAMA sells Elysian and Ballincollig Shopping Centre

rcdk1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0512/616878-nama-elysian-tower/

Ireland's tallest residential building, the Elysian Tower in Cork, has been sold by NAMA.

It was part of Project Tower, a portfolio of loans secured on properties controlled by the O'Flynn group.

The portfolio has a face value of €1.8 billion.

NAMA refused to disclose the sale price, but property websites have reportrd the selling price to be €1.1 to €1.2 billion, making it one of NAMAs bigger transactions.

It was bought by the US investment firm Blackstone.

Apart from as the Elysian Tower and a shopping centre in Ballincollig, most of the portfolio is located abroad, including a group of student residences in the UK called Victoria Hall, an office building in Jermyn Street, London, and a number of commercial properties in Germany.

Commenting on the transaction, NAMA Chief Executive, Brendan McDonagh said: "We are very pleased to have completed this transaction.

"It provides further evidence of the current and continued strong investor appetite for real estate assets and property-related loans in Ireland and in other jurisdictions to which NAMA has a significant exposure.

"We are particularly pleased that the transaction has been agreed with such a reputable international counter party as Blackstone."

Ken Caplan, head of European Real Estate at Blackstone, said: "We are delighted to have had this opportunity to work with NAMA and to acquire the Tower loan portfolio and to expand our investments in Ireland, the UK and Germany."

Sad to see them move out of Irish ownership but at least the new owners might start to fill both places with tenants (commercial & residential).

mikeym

The Elysian was some disaster of a project. I didnt know Nama had it.

Celtic Tiger madness.

SouthernBelle

Hopefully it will mean occupation of the empty units in the Ballincollig SC!

pwurple

mikeym wrote: »

The Elysian was some disaster of a project. I didnt know Nama had it.

Celtic Tiger madness.

Completely disagree with you, it was one of the few celtic tiger progects built to a high spec. Cork badly needed some good quality accomodation in the city center. Suburban sprawl is brutal.

It got bitten in the backside by the timing... Way too expensive to build, and hence to buy.

Eurovisionmad

Something needed to be done like the Elysian, the last poster is right, far too much sprawl and consequently thousands more cars commuting in the the city centre due to poor public transport. Comparable cities like Rennes have a much more built up city centre. Unlucky timing is the main reason it's stood largely empty, interestingly there's a direct correlation between the amount of sky-scrapers being built (or cloud ticklers as I heard one person to refer to the Elysian) and the onset of a recession. Sure the Empire state stood empty for years as it was built just on the crest of the Great Depression.

AugustusMinimus

The Elysian was built in the wrong place IMO.

No high rise should have been allowed in the area it was built. Instead, a separate area of the docklands, away from present residential areas should have been set aside for maybe 5 or 6 high rise developments.

All of the high rise developments should have been built beside each other. Would have looked much better and would really have made the docklands development stand out. Would have given it a focal point too.

Nonoperational

Tried to rent an apartment in the Elysian before and the agent genuinely had no interest. In the end I left it and got somewhere else.

Red Nissan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Elysian was built in the wrong place IMO.

No high rise should have been allowed in the area it was built. Instead, a separate area of the docklands, away from present residential areas should have been set aside for maybe 5 or 6 high rise developments.

All of the high rise developments should have been built beside each other. Would have looked much better and would really have made the docklands development stand out. Would have given it a focal point too.

All this was in fact the original plan, it failed to get the backing and government commitment in infrastructure, like a new bridge at Tivoli so the plan, whilst still there has not been acted upon, the ELYSIAN was then a modified proposal which went ahead.

The overall docklands development would completely move the current city centre to Centre Park Road, Monahan Road area and become a densely packed high rise dwelling and living spaces with the development of a massive sports facility and conference centre and parklands.

Bits and pieces of the overall plan are in train and will proceed on an individual basis, the whole plan itself though, is still bogged down.

Going Strong

Nonoperational wrote: »

Tried to rent an apartment in the Elysian before and the agent genuinely had no interest. In the end I left it and got somewhere else.

How long ago was this? I know, just after completion, they wanted to mothball the place but couldn't. There were a handful of people who'd bought apartments and moved in so all the utilities and security had to be provided and it was costing the developers a small fortune.

who_me

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Elysian was built in the wrong place IMO.

No high rise should have been allowed in the area it was built. Instead, a separate area of the docklands, away from present residential areas should have been set aside for maybe 5 or 6 high rise developments.

All of the high rise developments should have been built beside each other. Would have looked much better and would really have made the docklands development stand out. Would have given it a focal point too.

Most of the South Docklands was a designated area for taller buildings, along with (IIRC!) part of Blackpool and a small area out by County Hall.

I think if the Elysian had been built in the middle of the docklands it would have been even harder to sell. Who wants to buy a very expensive, yet relatively small apartment in the middle of a large industrial zone? In any case, much of the South Docklands need a significant amount of work in flood protection and for environmental reasons (a lot of oil/chemicals have seeped into the ground thus aren't suitable for immediate development without huge investment up front).

There were some very ambitious plans announced for parts of the docklands (Atlantic Quarter, Port Quarter) but I think the only way anything is going to happen is if the 'centre' starts growing out towards it. There's been a bit of new development in that area (Lapps Quay, the new marina, the Elysian) and possibly more on the way (Event centre, large new office building in front of the Elysian).

AugustusMinimus

I like to think the Docklands will eventually get done with a grand plan being put into place like what was there in the mid 2000s.

That bridge from across the Lee is still going to be built by the way. Just hasn't received any funding yet. I'm still hopeful that we'll see the Docklands done with a number of high rise developments.

Here's hoping it'll end up looking like Downtown LA.

Red Nissan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I like to think the Docklands will eventually get done with a grand plan being put into place like what was there in the mid 2000s..

Yes, the grand plans are usually better and overall cheaper if done as a massive project. The South Ring Road is an example that was only completed recently after 25 years, and many deaths and wrecked lives along the way too.

Mahon Point is another bad example of not allowing the grand plan to be built and uncoordinated piecemeal developments have led to the fiasco that we have today.

Isolated developments, like the Elysian also not fully welcome, nor is the isolated conference centre which may be built any old place, and once built there is a new hole in the plan that will be filled by something else that was initially designed for somewhere else and so on we go higgledy-piggledy and never actually getting the benefit of the grand design.

Ardennes1944

I agree with location by the docklands, the area around the river heading towards the docklands in Dublin by the o2 looks very well these days.

Nonoperational

Going Strong wrote: »

How long ago was this? I know, just after completion, they wanted to mothball the place but couldn't. There were a handful of people who'd bought apartments and moved in so all the utilities and security had to be provided and it was costing the developers a small fortune.

About 2.5 years ago now.

Dave47

Nonoperational wrote: »

Tried to rent an apartment in the Elysian before and the agent genuinely had no interest. In the end I left it and got somewhere else.

yeah I heard they bought it back off some of the buyers to avoid paying electricity for the facility etc. Although I think the gym and carpark were open.
Assume it will be rented although Blackstone know this property has declined the most in terms of asset value.

evilivor

Dave47 wrote: »

yeah I heard they bought it back off some of the buyers to avoid paying electricity for the facility etc. Although I think the gym and carpark were open.
Assume it will be rented although Blackstone know this property has declined the most in terms of asset value.

Not sure Blackstone will be involved in the day to day.

"The O’Flynn group indicated yesterday that it would work with Blackstone and continue to manage the assets against which the debt has been secured. "

TheChizler

evilivor wrote: »

Not sure Blackstone will be involved in the day to day.

"The O’Flynn group indicated yesterday that it would work with Blackstone and continue to manage the assets against which the debt has been secured. "

Yeah, it was initially reported as the property which was sold, not the loan, which actually was. So business as unual in O'Flynns. Shouldn't make a difference to the property itself as long as Blackstone don't get new repayment terms.

daveohdave

Blackstone don't "do" anything. They're an equity group, all they do is Money.

SandStone

Tall buildings are an eyesore, and building lots of tower blocks out in the docklands is only going to suck even more life out of the city centre. The buildings in the city centre should be refurbished rather than abandoned by shifting the city centre elsewhere.

AugustusMinimus

SandStone wrote: »

Tall buildings are an eyesore, and building lots of tower blocks out in the docklands is only going to suck even more life out of the city centre. The buildings in the city centre should be refurbished rather than abandoned by shifting the city centre elsewhere.

Whats your solution ? Further building on the outskirts of the city ? Tall buildings aren't always an eye sore. Have all the high rise in one spot and it would look quite good IMO.

IMO. The Docklands should go ahead with a series of high rise developments. Give an incentive for businesses on the South Mall to move to the Docklands and put forward the Docklands as the financial centre of the city. At the same time, extend the shopping district around Patrick Street onto the South Mall.

The Docklands is also an excellent opportunity to increase the population significantly, close to the city centre, thereby increasing trade in the city centre.

namloc1980

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Whats your solution ? Further building on the outskirts of the city ? Tall buildings aren't always an eye sore. Have all the high rise in one spot and it would look quite good IMO.

IMO. The Docklands should go ahead with a series of high rise developments. Give an incentive for businesses on the South Mall to move to the Docklands and put forward the Docklands as the financial centre of the city. At the same time, extend the shopping district around Patrick Street onto the South Mall.

The Docklands is also an excellent opportunity to increase the population significantly, close to the city centre, thereby increasing trade in the city centre.

Unfortunately none of this will happen for the foreseeable future. A few years ago the government indefinitely deferred making a decision on giving the go ahead for the Eastern Gateway bridge which is one of the primary infrastructural prerequisites for the docklands to be successfully developed. In the meantime other infrastructure projects around the country have gone through the planning process and are at shovel ready stage such as DART Underground and Metro North in Dublin and the Galway/Tuam bypass. Once money becomes available it is these projects that will go ahead. The docklands is still little more than a drawing board project.

SandStone

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Whats your solution ? Further building on the outskirts of the city ? Tall buildings aren't always an eye sore. Have all the high rise in one spot and it would look quite good IMO.

IMO. The Docklands should go ahead with a series of high rise developments. Give an incentive for businesses on the South Mall to move to the Docklands and put forward the Docklands as the financial centre of the city. At the same time, extend the shopping district around Patrick Street onto the South Mall.

There's lots of empty and under-utilised residential, retail and office space in the city centre. The city doesn't need any more in the short to medium term.

The shopping district needs to be consolidated, not expanded. There are too many empty shops on Patrick's Street already, so extending it on to the South Mall would be a disaster.

who_me

You might be right to some extent about retail - insofar as there's a good amount of retail space available in the city now. (I'd still argue just because there's available space doesn't mean there's too much supply / not enough demand - it could also be that much of what exists is too small, not suitable, or far too expensive for what it offers).

On the office side though, the city has very, very little once you go beyond a small office of 5-10 people. Our company has been looking for several months now for office space for 25-30 people now with meeting rooms, and there's nothing about. Found one suitable property, but is ridiculously over-priced and the developer (in NAMA) doesn't seem overly bothered about leaving it vacant another few years.

Eurovisionmad

SandStone wrote: »

There's lots of empty and under-utilised residential, retail and office space in the city centre. The city doesn't need any more in the short to medium term.

Not true, I know of at least one large firm on the south mall who're looking to expand their offices in the city centre but can't because there's no appropriate office space available, without heading out to Mahon or Blackpool which just isn't feasible for them. They had been looking at moving into the planned Albert Key development but of course that's been put on the backburner (even though it already had an anchor tenant other than this firm) because of planning objections, one of which by none other than the landlord of their existing premises!

SandStone

That's the thing though: in many cases the space is there, but for some reason the owners won't rent it out at a reasonable price. I suspect the main reason is lack of competition: NAMA in particular has too much power. Perhaps there should be two NAMAs in competition with each other.

Markcheese

So if Nama is flogging off their debt portfolio I assume they're not paying the developers a salary anymore ?

evilivor

Markcheese wrote: »

So if Nama is flogging off their debt portfolio I assume they're not paying the developers a salary anymore ?

Why would you assume that? They still have to pay back their loans, just to different people.

TheChizler

Isn't that only when they take full control of the property? Not the loan?

Markcheese

evilivor wrote: »

Why would you assume that? They still have to pay back their loans, just to different people.

My point is that if Nama no longer hold
"A Developer" 's debt, then they couldnt care less what his income is or where it comes from, as "A Developer" now owes 1,5 billion to Blackwater finance not the Irish state or a state owned bank..
If "A Developer" can service his loans or persuade the finance crowd to give him more rope to trade on and get back developing then good luck to him.

Lekrub

It was only 2 months ago I checked an apartment in the Elysian to rent. Sherry Fitz were letting on behalf of NAMA.

I am all in favour of high rises and the docks idea would of been great. But it was a crappy 1 bed with a bad view of the council carpark. And honestly the quality wasn't amazing. There was some cool features but I wouldn't say it was sheer luxury. Maybe the 2 beds were better.

daveohdave

How much?

D'Agger

Should we expect to see Elysium apartments on the market soon then? From the sounds of things they weren't looking to sell or rent them for the past few years!

TheChizler

D'Agger wrote: »

Should we expect to see Elysium apartments on the market soon then? From the sounds of things they weren't looking to sell or rent them for the past few years!

There are contributors in this thread who live in them, so it would look like it...

Lekrub

It was in the 4 story block that runs around the courtyard. If I remember correctly it was 1100 for the 1 bed. It was for me and the gf. It was a group viewing and none of us were impressed. Unless the others were playing games! Maybe the apartments facing the courtyard or somewhere else would of been better.

Red Nissan

Lekrub wrote: »

It was in the 4 story block that runs around the courtyard. If I remember correctly it was 1100 for the 1 bed. It was for me and the gf. It was a group viewing and none of us were impressed. Unless the others were playing games! Maybe the apartments facing the courtyard or somewhere else would of been better.

You are confirming my data on the place, thanks.

JohnGrace2007

Was one of the Better Buildings In Cork,A Quality Build by the O Flynn Group

daveohdave

Great first post Mr. Flynn.