Coombes

rhapsody

So I'm here looking for help again, after a break from family tree research. A family member who is as interested as me in these things particularly wants to find out more about our relative Walter Coombes and his family in England/ Wales, and swiftly if possible since we have an elderly relative we would like to give the information to before we can't. Anyway...

Facts:
- Walter Coombes was married in Ireland in 1897; the marriage cert says his father was James Coombes
- In 1901, Walter is not listed in the census
- In 1911, this is Walter, aged 35:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Louth/West_Gate/Platten_Road_North/573402/
- Walter died in 1950, his death cert says he was 72.

Anecdotes:
- Depending on which relative I speak to, Walter was from Bath, Somerset, Cornwall, Plymouth or Kent; one particularly remembers his Welsh accent.
- Walter joined the Cornwall Light Infantry and came to Ireland in the 1890s, stationed in Drogheda. He fought in the Boer War after that (that could explain Walter not being in the 1901 census). Sometime later, he was called back for further military service but didn't go.
- Walter had a brother and a sister back home. Walter's daughter went to stay with the sister at some stage.

If anyone can suggest what I should to do find out more about Walter's life before Ireland, or more specifically recommend someone who we can engage to take on Walter's story, I would really appreciate it! I do my research but at this stage I'm not sure what else to do. I'm not familiar with English records or geography. I've looked up Walter on Family Search of course, there are two Walters with fathers called James:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQ8Z-FQR
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3YM-5QT
I'm not sure where to go from these, if either is even him.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I look forward to hearing everyone's suggestions

KildareFan

Check the 1881 and 1891 English Census - online in Ancestry.com.

I've had a quick look, but only find a James Coombes in Manchester in 1881, with a son Walter aged 6 [b. abt 1875]; mother Hannah age 40, brothers George 19, John 14, Charles 10; sister Mary 8mths.

No sign of that family in 1891 in Manchester - but two Walter Coombes are soldiers in the Royal Engineers in Aldershot - one aged 21 born in Frome Somerset, a sapper; the other age 22 born Newton Abbott, a driver.

There may also be army records of when Walter joined up which will give further information.

shanew

rhapsody wrote: »

...- Walter Coombes was married in Ireland in 1897; the marriage cert says his father was James Coombes
....

what occupation is shown for James on the cert ?

I'd start with the English census returns and try to locate the family that way - e.g. William hopefully with his father, if still alive, on the 1881 census, and work from there..

Not exactly a common name but there are at least 9 possible births for the name on FreeBMD between 1875 and 1879 in England/Wales, and there could also be some that missed registration. These are located in - Yorkshire, Greater London, Gloucestershire / Somerset, Devon, Berkshire / Surrey, Devon / Somerset. Several are listed with middle names which might help by comparing with other records for Walter - death cert, military records etc

for reference : Mary and the children on the 1901 census living on the southern outskirts of Drogheda

pedroeibar1

Combes is unusual - there was a Coombes who had a bicycle shop in Castle Street, Dalkey, Co. Dublin for years; it existed until c1970 (?) It was I believe he, Frederick Coombes, who 'recarved' the eagle's head on the Killiney hill walk after it was vandalised back in the 1950's.

rhapsody

KildareFan wrote: »

Check the 1881 and 1891 English Census - online in Ancestry.com.

I've had a quick look, but only find a James Coombes in Manchester in 1881, with a son Walter aged 6 [b. abt 1875]; mother Hannah age 40, brothers George 19, John 14, Charles 10; sister Mary 8mths.

No sign of that family in 1891 in Manchester - but two Walter Coombes are soldiers in the Royal Engineers in Aldershot - one aged 21 born in Frome Somerset, a sapper; the other age 22 born Newton Abbott, a driver.

There may also be army records of when Walter joined up which will give further information.

Thanks KildareFan, yeah I searched those censuses- I've linked to the 1881 family above, there's also another in Somersetshire- the Walter in that family is aged 3. Do you know where I should search for army records?

shanew wrote: »

what occupation is shown for James on the cert ?

I'd start with the English census returns and try to locate the family that way - e.g. William hopefully with his father, if still alive, on the 1881 census, and work from there..

Not exactly a common name but there are at least 9 possible births for the name on FreeBMD between 1875 and 1879 in England/Wales, and there could also be some that missed registration. These are located in - Yorkshire, Greater London, Gloucestershire / Somerset, Devon, Berkshire / Surrey, Devon / Somerset. Several are listed with middle names which might help by comparing with other records for Walter - death cert, military records etc

for reference : Mary and the children on the 1901 census living on the southern outskirts of Drogheda

Thanks Shane, there's no occupation for James on the marriage cert unfortunately (or for Walter's wife's father- there's a cross through that column- or for Walter himself,). See my reply above for 1881 census, I couldn't follow up on either of those families in 1891. I have the Irish census record, thanks- those Hynes relatives are another branch I've been working on more recently! Again, I'm not sure where to find Walter's military records- I'm not subscribed to any fee-paying sites, is there somewhere else I can find information?

I haven't used that site, I'll search births there too. Unfortunately I don't have a middle name for Walter- none listed on his marriage or death cert. I've been wondering about Christopher- Walter's first son was named James (presumably after Walter's dad), the second son was Walter Christopher- I haven't found a Christopher on the mother's side.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Combes is unusual - there was a Coombes who had a bicycle shop in Castle Street, Dalkey, Co. Dublin for years; it existed until c1970 (?) It was I believe he, Frederick Coombes, who 'recarved' the eagle's head on the Killiney hill walk after it was vandalised back in the 1950's.

Thanks Pedroeibar1, I don't believe that's a relative, but sounds like a good guy

Can anyone recommend a professional genealogist who is familiar with English army records?

shanew

The first sites to try for military records are Ancestry and FindMyPast UK, but other records are only in the NationalArchives (Kew, London) and not online. There is an index/catalogue on their but not the most user friendly, and could be difficult if you dont know which unit he served in.

shanew

rhapsody wrote: »

.....there's no occupation for James on the marriage cert unfortunately (or for Walter's wife's father- there's a cross through that column- or for Walter himself,)....

is that a civil cert for the marriage from GRO ?

unusual for there to be no occupation for groom...

the first hit on Anc Medal rolls looks promising... just a list of names, but includes a Walter Coombes.

Name: Walter Coombes / Rank Private
Campaign or Service: South Africa - Second Boer War
Service Date: 1899-1902
Service Location: South Africa
Regiment or Unit Name: 2nd Battalion The Queen's
Regimental Number: 5430

KildareFan

I think I've found Walter Coombes army discharge papers - army no 4433 - he was living in Drogheda at the time of his discharge in 1910.

He was born in Wincanton, Somersetshire, and enlisted on 4 Jun 1894, aged 18. He was a labourer, illiterate & signed with his mark. His wife was Mary Hynes, and his next of kin were brothers George & Frank & sisters Eliza and Catherine, all living in Wincanton Somerset.

He was awarded a medal for the South Africa campaign.

I can send you details if you PM me.

shanew

KildareFan wrote: »

I think I've found Walter Coombes army discharge papers - army no 4433....

I see his medal listing - as W. Coombes, his regiment makes more sense that the one I posted earlier given the mention of the possible Cornwall Infantry military link mentioned

Name: W Coombes
Campaign or Service: South Africa - Second Boer War
Service Date: 1899-1902
Service Location: South Africa
Regiment or Unit Name: 2nd Duke of Cornwallis Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 4433

Clasps he is entitled to on his South Africa Medal include : Paardeberg, Driefontein, Johannesburg, Diamond Hill, Belfast and Relief of Kimberley - all appear to be battles that he took part in during the war.

KildareFan

And Bingo
I have Walter Coombs [note spelling] age 3 in the 1881 Census, Whitehall, Wincanton,
James Coombs 47 general labourer, born Dorset
Sarah Coombs 45
George Coombs 18 general labourer
Kate Coombs 8
Ellen Coombs 6
Walter Coombs 3

shanew

possible marriage for Walter parents from FreeBMD ?

Name: James Coombs
Quarter/Year : Apr-Jun 1857
Registration district: Wincanton (Somerset)
Volume : 5c / Page : 920

List of possible brides includes a Sarah Warren

rhapsody

Wow, wow, wow! You're so fast I can't keep up That means the second 1881 census return I linked to below is him!
Where did you get the discharge papers KildareFan? Sorry, just saw the rest, will PM in a sec!
Shanew- where did you get all that? Walter was all over the world it seems (I've to look all those up actually, they mightn't be as far flung & exotic as I think!)

KildareFan

Looks like James Coombes married Sarah Warren - our Walter Coombes aged 13, errand boy was staying with his uncle John Warren in the 1891 Census, at 18 Whitehall, Wincanton, Somerset:

John Warren 51 - general dealer
Jane Warren 50 - John's wife listed as blind.
Walter Coombs 13 - nephew of head of household

rhapsody

shanew wrote: »

possible marriage for Walter parents from FreeBMD ?

Name: James Coombs
Quarter/Year : Apr-Jun 1857
Registration district: Wincanton (Somerset)
Volume : 5c / Page : 920

List of possible brides includes a Sarah Warren

Hi Shane, I searched for Sarah's marriage & got matching references- which I take it is the same over there as it is here i.e. wuhoo! KildareFan's last post confirms it too so that's another name to add to the tree & many more people to look up

shanew

rhapsody wrote: »

....Shanew- where did you get all that? Walter was all over the world it seems (I've to look all those up actually, they mightn't be as far flung & exotic as I think!)

the medal lists are on Ancestry in the 'Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls' collection. I think those campaigns listed are all in South Africa, so part of the 2nd Boer War.

the Marriage reference is from FreeBMD, which is a free version of the England / Wales civil BMD Index. Same system as our with districts, reference cross-matches etc. You can order certs from GRO UK for about £9

All the England/Wales Census returns are on Ancestry, and some data from these is on FamilySearch.

Probable civil birth references for Walter, from FreeBMD :

Name : Walter Coombs
Quarter/Year : Sep 1877
Registration District : Wincanton
Volume : 5c / Page : 475

rhapsody

shanew wrote: »

the medal lists are on Ancestry in the 'Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls' collection. I think those campaigns listed are all in South Africa, so part of the 2nd Boer War.

the Marriage reference is from FreeBMD, which is a free version of the England / Wales civil BMD Index. Same system as our with districts, reference cross-matches etc. You can order certs from GRO UK for about £9

All the England/Wales Census returns are on Ancestry, and some data from these is on FamilySearch.

Probable civil birth references for Walter, from FreeBMD :

Name : Walter Coombs
Quarter/Year : Sep 1877
Registration District : Wincanton
Volume : 5c / Page : 475

Ah that's why I couldn't find the military records, I don't have a subscription for Ancestry. KildareFan kindly sent me on some information so that's plenty to be working on for now. I'm taking that birth reference as Walter- it seems the most likely, and I think I have a few likely ones for some of his siblings on FreeBMD (it looks like they're the only Coomb(e)s family in Wincanton). Family Search crashed on me last night, so I'm still working on later census returns for Walter's siblings and parents- the family seem to have dispersed by 1891.