Principa/staffl start and finish time

icebergiceberg

If a primary school starts first class at 9. What time does principal have to be in school at in the morning and what time does principal have to stay until in the afternoon? Are there any regulations about that? Where are the regulations regarding this written down? Same question actually for staff start and finish time.

Thank you.

seavill

You're really not happy in work.

What does it say in your contract about your start and finish time

icebergiceberg

seavill wrote: »

You're really not happy in work.

What does it say in your contract about your start and finish time

Thank you for your reply seavill.

You seem to assume I have both a job and a contract.

My question is still the same.

Nevertheless, thank you again seavill for your contribution.

seavill

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Thank you for your reply seavill.

You seem to assume I have both a job and a contract.

My question is still the same.

Nevertheless, thank you again seavill for your contribution.

Well you mentioned a colleague in your other thread that would imply you have a post.

Do you have a teaching job? If not who are the colleagues you referred to previously
Have you ever had a teaching job?

Thank you for your reply I await the answers to those questions

icebergiceberg

seavill wrote: »

Well you mentioned a colleague in your other thread that would imply you have a post.

Do you have a teaching job? If not who are the colleagues you referred to previously
Have you ever had a teaching job?

Thank you for your reply I await the answers to those questions

Thanks for response.

My question regarding start/finish times is quite straightforward.
If anyone would like to respond to that simple question I would very much appreciate an appropriate response to it.

I really have no time to deal with side issues:
'You do not seem happy at work' etc etc.
You 'await' (await ! no less) the answers to your questions!

Where did that come from? Why would you say something like that? This is not relevant and, with the greatest of respect seavill, none of your business.

I just would like answers to the specific questions I asked. Do you know what the start/finish times are?

If you don't know anything about the specific questions asked, why do you want to know whether I am happy or not? I did not ask about happiness. Next thing you'll be wanting to know what I ate for breakfast.

Thanks seavill, but PLEASE.

seavill

Look it's like this you claimed to be a teacher in your previous thread yet you don't know what time you have to he in school or get to leave at.

It was a simple question which you didn't answer what does it say in your contract about start finish times.

You skipped that answer with another question.

I also asked are you a teacher and were you a teacher maybe if you answered those questions people might be more inclined to respond to you.

I asked a simple question which you have not answered why is that ?

evolving_doors

seavill wrote: »

Look it's like this you claimed to be a teacher in your previous thread yet you don't know what time you have to he in school or get to leave at.

It was a simple question which you didn't answer what does it say in your contract about start finish times.

You skipped that answer with another question.

I also asked are you a teacher and were you a teacher maybe if you answered those questions people might be more inclined to respond to you.

I asked a simple question which you have not answered why is that ?

I don't think the op specified if they were secondary or primary in the other thread. So they dont necessarily have to be primary teaching.
Perhaps they are curious for the sake of curiosity, ain't no breach of charter here. Also a poster can chose to ignore another poster too!

icebergiceberg

seavill wrote: »

Look it's like this you claimed to be a teacher in your previous thread yet you don't know what time you have to he in school or get to leave at.

It was a simple question which you didn't answer what does it say in your contract about start finish times.

You skipped that answer with another question.

I also asked are you a teacher and were you a teacher maybe if you answered those questions people might be more inclined to respond to you.

I asked a simple question which you have not answered why is that ?

Thank you for your reply.

seavill, you are losing the plot here.

With the greatest of respect to you, but you must read the posts more carefully and
think about your response before posting. Your first sentence above is incorrect.
Did I say I did not know what time I have to be at school? Or leave ?

Why you want to know if I am or was an SNA, teacher or whatever is not pertinent to the questions. I could be a teacher, an SNA, a fisherman or a thief. You seem more interested in that than in providing an answer to my questions. If you do not know the answers then simply say so and move on!! No harm done seavill.

Does it make a difference to your answer? Why do you want to know? You seem very inquisitive.

It seems to me you don't know the answer to my questions because you have not told me the times. As such then there is no need to respond to this.

Thank you again

seavill

I had a response written to anerolie but never got to send it.

Like I said you are asking questions that a teacher would know the answer to yet you claimed to be a teacher (or implied it by mentioning a colleague in a previous thread) so it's not like you are a fisherman or whatever silly stuff you are on about.

You are being extremely evasive to anything asked in two threads. You are a new poster who suddenly signs up with two critical threads in less than 24 hours
This thread has had 300 views yet no one is responding to you have you wondered why?
Even the mod didn't answer your questions.

It is a public forum you posted on I am as entitled to ask questions if you post here.
If you start answering questions I and others might as well.

I suspect the lack of responses is due to people feeling the same as me.

Maybe try being honest and you might get more help from people

icebergiceberg

Armelodie wrote: »

I don't think the op specified if they were secondary or primary in the other thread. So they dont necessarily have to be primary teaching.
Perhaps they are curious for the sake of curiosity, ain't no breach of charter here. Also a poster can chose to ignore another poster too!

Thank you Armelodie.

Does anybody know the rules and regulations concerning what time staff and principal have to be at work in the morning and what time they are allowed to leave in the afternoon in a primary school in Ireland?

Is there a rule for example, that says staff and principal are to be in school 15 minutes (say) before the first class starts or something like that.

Thank you.

seavill

Teachers are contracted only for their time in front of a class, as you and "your colleagues" should be well aware.
Apart from CP hours obviously, where that is down to the school management to decide how that is organised

ethical

I 'm aware that it varies in secondary school.Some Principals and Deputy Principals start around 8.00 a.m. together whereas in other schools there is a 'local' agreement where one or the other of the Management team share the responsibility of opening and closing!

evolving_doors

I can't answer for primary teachers!
I don't know what the deal is with principals either!

Boober Fraggle

All of the information you are looking for is in the rules for national schools document. I think it is covered under rule 24.

icebergiceberg

seavill wrote: »

Teachers are contracted only for their time in front of a class, as you and "your colleagues" should be well aware.
Apart from CP hours obviously, where that is down to the school management to decide how that is organised

Thank you very much seavill for your response.

1. I wasn't aware that teachers are contracted only for their time in front of a class in a primary school.
So in a primary school lets say the first class starts at 09:00 a teacher (contracted for their time in front of a class as you say) can swing into school at 08:59 and pop into their class then at 09:00 and fulfill his contractual obligations. Is that the situation?

I thought that staff had to be in earlier? Say around 08:40 or something like that? That would mean 20 minutes not in front of a class.

2. And the afternoon? A class finishes at 2:30 pm (or something like that). Once 2:31 comes (outside of a CP hour) the teacher can swing out of the school. No problem? Her/his contract being fulfilled by time in the class?

3. And what about the Principal as distinct from teachers? Can they do likewise? Any info/rules/regulations on his/her timekeeping?


Thanks seavill.

evolving_doors

Seaville ..... I can't answer for primary teachers!
I don't know what the deal is with principals either!

Hence my inability to answer. If someone wants info then they either get it or they don't. We could make value judgements on everyones request for info (or make value judgements on peoples suspicion of posters and past posts) but we don't. lets just see where this goes first.

Boober Fraggle

Primary teachers do not begin formal instruction until 20 minutes after the official start time in school. There's assembly time before that.

All in the rules for national schools.

seavill

Infant teachers are slightly different, again CP hours cover pre/post/during school supervision

seavill

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

Primary teachers do not begin formal instruction until 20 minutes after the official start time in school. There's assembly time before that.

All in the rules for national schools.

Apologies yea I'm referring to time outside of this in relation to CP hours just to clarify

Boober Fraggle

seavill wrote: »

Apologies yea I'm referring to time outside of this in relation to CP hours just to clarify

My comments were in reply to this, I agree with what you said!

icebergiceberg wrote: »

1. I wasn't aware that teachers are contracted only for their time in front of a class in a primary school.
So in a primary school lets say the first class starts at 09:00 a teacher (contracted for their time in front of a class as you say) can swing into school at 08:59 and pop into their class then at 09:00 and fulfill his contractual obligations. Is that the situation?

I thought that staff had to be in earlier? Say around 08:40 or something like that? That would mean 20 minutes not in front of class.

icebergiceberg

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

Primary teachers do not begin formal instruction until 20 minutes after the official start time in school. There's assembly time before that.

All in the rules for national schools.

Thank you.

I am not primary school teacher so all this is new to me.

Class starts at 09:00. But there is an assembly from 8:40-09:00?
(Assembly is when all students are all together in a hall, right ?)

If a teacher is contracted for class time only (?) , does he or she have to be at assembly ? And therefore arrive at 08:59 and pop into class as assembly finishes?
Is assembly regarded as class time?

Presumably the principal would have to be at assembly, so he or she would have to be always in school at 08:40 in this case?
Excuse my ignorance but I am genuinely interested how this works out.

Boober Fraggle

In most cases assembly time would not begin until 9.20, it is part of the school day, and usually takes place in the classroom. It is a time for children to settle into their seats, get coats and books sorted, have a chat, maybe get homework out, depending on the teacher. Principal would usually be in school at start time too.

In reality I think a lot of teachers do begin formal instruction during this time as the pressures on time are so great in primary schools.

ytareh

Look if youre a pupil/teacher/parent/solicitor with an axe to grind against some poor unfortunate/s on your/a school staff theres got to be a simpler way to shaft them than looking for advice and info online.

icebergiceberg

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

In most cases assembly time would not begin until 9.20, it is part of the school day, and usually takes place in the classroom. It is a time for children to settle into their seats, get coats and books sorted, have a chat, maybe get homework out, depending on the teacher. Principal would usually be in school at start time too.

In reality I think a lot of teachers do begin formal instruction during this time as the pressures on time are so great in primary schools.

Thanks

I was under the impression that assembly was a gathering of all students in the school in the main hall. I did not know that assembly was held in classes by teachers (?)

Assembly time therefore seems to be class contact time too and teachers have to be there for that.

It seems different schools have different rules regarding start times. You said assembly is before class instruction. But if assembly is at 9 20 as above, then in that particular school, kids start school at 9 20 then followed by instruction twenty minutes later. Right? Whereas another school could have assembly at 0840 and instruction starting at 09:00.

If your last class finishes at 2 pm can you go home immediately as there are no students there?

Boober Fraggle

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Thanks

I was under the impression that assembly was a gathering of all students in the school in the main hall. I did not know that assembly was held in classes by teachers (?)

Assembly time therefore seems to be class contact time too and teachers have to be there for that.

It seems different schools have different rules regarding start times. You said assembly is before class instruction. But if assembly is at 9 20 as above, then in that particular school, kids start school at 9 20 then followed by instruction twenty minutes later. Right? Whereas another school could have assembly at 0840 and instruction starting at 09:00.

If your last class finishes at 2 pm can you go home immediately as there are no students there?

Of course all schools start at different times, that information will be available on the school website, and is not dictated by the des, as different schools in different areas have different needs that must be taken into account.

As far as I know, infants teachers do have to be present until seniors leave, but they do not have to do any extra duties during that hour. Of course, an individual could have a private arrangement with their principal that would allow them to leave with the junior classes.

Are you disagreeing with the definition of assembly time? I don't see any circumstances under which it would be beneficial for all students in a primary school to be in the same room for their assembly time, it would defeat the purpose of it.

Your posts come across like you are trying to prove a point to an individual, or about an individual and the way they undertake their duties. Without knowing the circumstances, nothing that is posted in this thread will either prove or disprove your point.

teacherhead

Does it really matter?

i go in at 8 and leave about 5.

i worked in a factory years ago we had to clock in 15 mins before the shift started.

i need to be in at 8 to get my work done. We needed to be in the plant at that tine to get changed and carry our hygiene procedures.

basically what ever is required in a school is what will apply in that school. Splitting hairs over the definition of an assembly is nonsense.

the rules that apply have been highlighted. It might be worth looking at them and coming back to seek clarification if you are still unsure.

byhookorbycrook

"Assembly time" in primary would typically be from the time the school starts- say 9.20 -9.40. In reality, this is treated as class time,as the primary curriculum is so overloaded. The children are in for 9.20,as is the teacher. It is NOT "assembly" as in a formal whole school meeting, as might happen for say, a visitor to the school.
Infant teachers may not leave the school until the older classes finish,the hour or so each day is for preparation, planning and correcting etc. At 3.p.m -if that's the time the school finish, the teacher will usually wait a few minutes to make sure all of the children have left.

icebergiceberg

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

Are you disagreeing with the definition of assembly time? I don't see any circumstances under which it would be beneficial for all students in a primary school to be in the same room for their assembly time, it would defeat the purpose of it.

Your posts come across like you are trying to prove a point to an individual, or about an individual and the way they undertake their duties. Without knowing the circumstances, nothing that is posted in this thread will either prove or disprove your point.

Thanks for reply.
No no. I am not disagreeing re definition of assembly time at all. My understanding of it has been different from yours - that's all. We are allowed to differ. I am not a primary teacher and I bow to your knowledge there.

A sour aspect of this media is readers can not appreciate the tone of a message thus leading to all sorts of misunderstandings. My initial query was misunderstood I believe. I asked a simple question in order to get a simple answer but all I got was noise. It took your intervention to get any clarity on the matter at all.

Although I did not have time to read the National School Rules that I think you referred to, they looked to me pretty 60s and am surprised they are still in operation.

I have friends who are primary school teachers and I have often wondered about 'clocking in and out' time and what is allowed and what is not.

spurious

OK, asked and answered a few times, I think.
Thread closed.