Fell off bike

rowanh

I was going up a residential road towards the the Walkinstown roundabout a couple days ago, i had my left indicator on without realising and someone pulled out in front of my just as i came up to a left turn. I braked hard, the front wheel locked up and it fell over. She was adamant she was not in any way at fault as i was indicating and refused to give me her insurance details. She did give me her mobile number and i took a photo of her reg plate. A few people since have said she was at fault. Im not really sure and feel a bit like it was my fault whatever about legality. I got the bike in February but ive been in India for the last two months so only really been on it a few weeks. The front indicator broke off and went through the front fairing, there were a few scrapes and the gear shifter peg is bent but the bike is ok to ride. Im just wondering would it be worth doing anything about it, having left it a few days and i didnt report it to the police or my insurance company.

guttenberg

Contact your insurance co. immediately. She is at fault. Just because a vehicle has an indicator on is no guarantee of the drivers intentions.

Fox Mulder

Are you allowed to just refuse to give insurance details? I thought you had to share details no matter what? I would inform the Garda of the incident. Hope you and the bike are OK.

Wonda-Boy

Why O Why did you even ask for her details!!!

Go over to the windscreen and take the policy number off the window and report it straight away. Its not for you or her to say who is at fault the insurance companies will dance about that one. From the sounds of it she is at fault and her not giving details is a pissy thing to do (if she knows she is not at fault whats the problem) Take her to the cleaners mate!

cerastes

Fox Mulder wrote: »

Are you allowed to just refuse to give insurance details? I thought you had to share details no matter what? I would inform the Garda of the incident. Hope you and the bike are OK.

I dont suppose you have some independant witnesses? if traffic stopped because of this, it might have been handy to get the following drivers opinion as they'd be likely to have seen it.
She has more or less left the scene of an accident.
I'd have taken her details but a person can be in a bit of shock without knowing it after any kind of accident. Witnesses would be handy, I resort to driving the car now with a camera on (mostly as I have to remember to plug it in and out)

Your indicator being on or not doesnt matter a bit, most people dont seem to know that, same as indicating is no right of way, its only an intent and Id never read into an indicator being on or not as meaning a vehicle is or isn't going to turn and neither should she.

You were absolutely not in the wrong, she was.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Sounds like you made a bollox of things op.

If I'm understanding this correctly..

You who lost control of your bike and you didn't collide with the lady.. You were also indicating your intention to turn left, which you didn't take and instead went straight on?.

If thats the case it appears to me as though you share the larger portion of any blame on your collision with the road surface.

If I was the lady driving I'd deny everything, I wouldn't give you my details either but I'd consider giving you my phone number as a witness to your accident.

DubVelo

Hang on, you didn't actually hit her car, you just hit the brake too hard and went down?
I'd maybe just chalk this one up to experience.
Do you think you could have stopped if you hadn't locked up the front wheel?

aaakev

Sydney Jealous Hamster wrote: »

Sounds like you made a bollox of things op.

If I'm understanding this correctly..

You who lost control of your bike and you didn't collide with the lady.. You were also indicating your intention to turn left, which you didn't take and instead went straight on?.

If thats the case it appears to me as though you share the larger portion of any blame on your collision with the road surface.

If I was the lady driving I'd deny everything, I wouldn't give you my details either but I'd consider giving you my phone number as a witness to your accident.

If someone pulls out in front of you and causes you to crash they are at fault whether you hit them or not as they caused your accident regardless of the indicator being on or not

Richard tea

This is the exact reason I bought a helmet camera. Invest in one OP

650Ginge

aaakev wrote: »

If someone pulls out in front of you and causes you to crash they are at fault whether you hit them or not as they caused your accident regardless of the indicator being on or not

Firstly hope you aren't hurt and the bike is not too badly damaged. You could have got the details from her window disc or get on to the garda and they will get them for you.

But……so if I pull out of a junction and someone crashes even if they didn't hit me thats my fault.

I don't agree with that at all, how far down the road am I responsible for the inability of others to control their vehicle. 10mtrs,100mtrs, 1km…..

The OP crashed because he over-reacted to someone pulling out. That person pulled out on the basis that any normal person would, considering seeing a car coming towards them with the indicator on to actually take the turn. I think a good driver would factor in the speed of the vehicle indicating to turn before pulling out. But either way leaving your indicator on a motorbike is extremely dangerous, we have all done it. But still……what would you do if you were waiting at that junction.

i firmly believe that you must learn from these incidents, you have to really think about what it was that caused the incident, if you always look for someone else to blame you can expect it to happen again. I have had two accidents one when a garda car ran into the back of me on the east link bridge. I think in that case I should be looking in the mirrors more and got on the horn earlier. They were obviously to blame but I still may have been able to prevent it in the first place. The second crash only involved me, I knew I had a soft flat and had been topping it up on a trip back from London, I got to within 10 kms of my house and through a combo of enjoying myself too much, going too quick for the wet dirty condition and a soft front. I locked the rear approaching a corner, got off it but was now into the corner to quick, I knew I was probably going to lose the front and thats is exactly what happened. I could blame the farmer that had left muck all over the road, or the lad in london that sold me the bike probably knowing it had a flat front. Either way both incidents I hope have maybe me a better rider.

rowanh

DubVelo wrote: »

Hang on, you didn't actually hit her car, you just hit the brake too hard and went down?
I'd maybe just chalk this one up to experience.
Do you think you could have stopped if you hadn't locked up the front wheel?

Hard to say, i certainly have not mastered braking, thats the first time ive ever had to brake hard to avoid something. I was literally just thinking the day before i need to practice emergency braking, when i did the ibt it was too wet and the instructor told me i needed to.

I was thinking basically chalk it up to experience but im leaning more towards making a claim against her now, i just rang a garda station and the guy said he was 99% sure she would be found to be to blame but they wont get involved other than getting her policy number.

Madmix_

In reality it is your fault however by the rule of road its her fault. That why I always wait until car that is indicating turn, really slows down so I am sure that he/she is really turning. I also heard that some people trying to get money from insurance companies just by "fake indicating".

gctest50

rowanh wrote: »

Hard to say, i certainly have not mastered braking...........

rowanh wrote: »

I was going up a residential road towards the the Walkinstown roundabout a couple days ago, i had my left indicator on without realising.......................

anything else ?

Just put it down to experience and go practice your braking

rowanh wrote: »

....thats the first time ive ever had to brake hard to avoid something......

She could easily just state the facts about what she saw

The motorcyclist indicated he was turning left, as he reached the corner he seemed to brake very late and brake very hard.
The front wheel locked up and he fell off.

sort of thing

cerastes

What some people are suggesting is if the OP didnt emergency brake and hit her or it happened so late the Op couldnt avoid hitting her, then that could be seen as the person pulled out late? so the OP would be less at fault?
But the OP braked hard and the bike went over, because the person pulled out, what was (he?) supposed to do, ram her?

Id still conclude the otherperson is at fault, especially as their defense is, Op had indicator on, thats not good enough to pull out in front of someone.
Op was on the road, the car driver shouldnt have concluded they were going to go one way or the other.
On that basis, I think the OP should still follow it up, they probably should have tried to get witnesses and Ive reported it sooner, but they might have been in shock or injured.

Wonda-Boy

You dont not have to collide with another vehicle for it to be their fault :rolleyes: a portion of the blame would be allocated say 60-40 for instance.

Also hitting the car is a totally difference case then not hitting the car, if she pulled out and surprised you its more your fault TBH. Really does depend how close she was to you.

arybvtcw0eolkf

aaakev wrote: »

If someone pulls out in front of you and causes you to crash they are at fault whether you hit them or not as they caused your accident regardless of the indicator being on or not

That goes without saying, however by his own admittance the OP didn't crash (it even says so in the title).. The OP "fell off bike"..

By reading the OP it appears they panicked and grabbed a fistful of brake.

If there wasn't a collision with the car I'd suggest there was time and space for the OP to take evasive action to avoid a collision but due to a lack of riding experience the OP panicked.

I'm not saying the lady isn't entirely innocent either, but it does appear as thought the great portion of the blame lies with the OP's lack of riding experience and poor judgement.

Cienciano

I'm with Makikomi on this one. As far as I know, if there was no contact, the insurance companies will side with her. Doesn't mean she's completely in the right. You would have been better off hitting her in regards to making a claim through her insurance. I could be talking out my arse though.
As for her not giving her details, if you're ever in an accident, just walk over to the other car (if you can walk) and take out your phone and take a photo of her nct/tax/insurance disc.
I'd just learn from it and move on. I had a crash in the car on the walkinstown roundabout, I reckon it was 50/50 but insurance companies would side with the other party. Just forget about it and move on imho, thinking about it is worse than the money it'll cost. Almost

LookBehindYou

You should have practiced emergency braking during your ibt.
Braking practice should get done during ibt whether its wet or dry.
I insist on practicing emergency braking to a full stop during ibt, especially in the wet.Then do it better again and again.
You also put yourself in danger by not cancelling your indicator, which is what you would have learned during ibt also.

Your accident claim would depend on who has an independant witness to the incident. A video camera would have been ideal at the time.

Frigga_92

In a civil case liability will probably be apportioned 50/50, maybe worse for you.

A case involving a vehicle pulling out in front of you causing you to alter your course, even if no contact was made, can be won if you have a good solicitor but because your indicator was on, a portion of liability will be pinned on you.

There have been cases similar to this. For example, where car driver "X" was travelling along a road, car driver "Y" coming from the opposite direction wanted to turn across the path of X. Y did what most people do, moved towards the centre of the road and X thought that he was moving into his path, swerved to avoid him and ended up in the ditch. Driver X won his case.

There are no absolutes in litigation. There is no "always" with insurance companies and every case is different.

Also, any delay in reporting an accident never looks good for a plaintiff. You need to make up your mind fast about what you're going to do and contact your insurance company.

Cuddlesworth

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm with Makikomi on this one. As far as I know, if there was no contact, the insurance companies will side with her. Doesn't mean she's completely in the right. You would have been better off hitting her in regards to making a claim through her insurance. I could be talking out my arse though.
As for her not giving her details, if you're ever in an accident, just walk over to the other car (if you can walk) and take out your phone and take a photo of her nct/tax/insurance disc.
I'd just learn from it and move on. I had a crash in the car on the walkinstown roundabout, I reckon it was 50/50 but insurance companies would side with the other party. Just forget about it and move on imho, thinking about it is worse than the money it'll cost. Almost

In cases where a motorbike is involved, the courts will nearly always side with the bike.

So because the OP has her details, her mobile number and his version of events, the insurance company will pay out in the event he makes a claim. It doesn't matter that he didn't make contact with the car, thats the best case scenario from bad driving on her part.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In cases where a motorbike is involved, the courts will nearly always side with the bike.

So because the OP has her details, her mobile number and his version of events, the insurance company will pay out in the event he makes a claim. It doesn't matter that he didn't make contact with the car, thats the best case scenario from bad driving on her part.

Sure if that was the case we could all go around blaming everyone else for our falls and taking none of the blame on our own actions!.

Vikings

Talk to your insurance company and get their opinion.

Don't worry about what people say on here, if you want to put in a claim you must contact them and they will be doing all the work anyway.. so ring them. They will be quick enough to tell you if you have a claim or not, they won't want to spend any money on legal fee's etc. if they don't think there's a chance to win.

kennM

I'd see the car that pulled out as primarily/mostly (if not completely at fault). They were the catalyst for the accident. The reason for the fistful of brake etc. was due to them reversing onto the road where traffic has the right of way.

By the rules of the road she's in the wrong. There may be an element of contributory negligence but that may mean that they cover 70% (for example) of your costs.

If your cost is just bike repair they'll simply pay up with not too much fuss. If there is an element of personal injury claim also they will fight it.

minidazzler

kennM wrote: »

I'd see the car that pulled out as primarily/mostly (if not completely at fault). They were the catalyst for the accident. The reason for the fistful of brake etc. was due to them reversing onto the road where traffic has the right of way.

By the rules of the road she's in the wrong. There may be an element of contributory negligence but that may mean that they cover 70% (for example) of your costs.

If your cost is just bike repair they'll simply pay up with not too much fuss. If there is an element of personal injury claim also they will fight it.

She didn't reverse. She was at the junction by the sounds of it, and since all the information she had said that the rider was going to turn left into the junction, she pulled out.

It's entirely the OP"s fault. He had the indicator on, and he hamfisted the braking effort.

kennM

minidazzler wrote: »

She didn't reverse. She was at the junction by the sounds of it, and since all the information she had said that the rider was going to turn left into the junction, she pulled out.

It's entirely the OP"s fault. He had the indicator on, and he hamfisted the braking effort.

Sorry misread OP but point still holds....

"I was going up a residential road towards the the Walkinstown roundabout a couple days ago, i had my left indicator on without realising and someone pulled out in front of my just as i came up to a left turn."....

i.e. vehicle on main road has right of way regardless of indicating or not. The driver on the minor road must ensure it is safe to move out onto road.... indicator on doesn't absolve the person pulling out of responsibility. Car had to yield to traffic coming from the right, i.e. the bike. It didn't.

Cuddlesworth

minidazzler wrote: »

She didn't reverse. She was at the junction by the sounds of it, and since all the information she had said that the rider was going to turn left into the junction, she pulled out.

It's entirely the OP"s fault. He had the indicator on, and he hamfisted the braking effort.

Lets say it was you that was hit. And lets say you wanted to turn into the business that was twenty feet past her, so you have placed your indicator on early like a good driver.

Does that justify her pulling out in front of you?

A indicator is the first step in the process of working out if somebody is turning. You do not in any circumstances pull out in their path based on that information alone. She would not have done that with a truck or large car.

kennM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Lets say it was you that was hit. And lets say you wanted to turn into the business that was twenty feet past her, so you have placed your indicator on early like a good driver.

Does that justify her pulling out in front of you?

A indicator is the first step in the process of working out if somebody is turning. You do not in any circumstances pull out in their path based on that information alone. She would not have done that with a truck or large car.

100% agree with you, of if they were pulling into the house right after the junction on the left hand side? .... car driver at fault. Would the accident have happened if she had not pulled out? no, would the rider have fallen off had she had not pulled out, no. There may be an element of contributory negligence but minor at most.

BaronVon

OP, were you hurt or injured in this collision? If you were, the Guards would have to investigate it by taking statements and a sketch of the scene. This would be a great help to an insurance claim later on.

With regards to fault, as Wonda Boy said, it would really come down to the layout of the road, and how close you were to each other, reaction times, stopping distance etc.

I would be getting on to your IBT instructor, and demanding some emergency braking lessons! He might be apportioned some of the blame for skipping them because it was wet!

Cienciano

Yeah, imho the indicator being on is meaningless. I mean, if I was the car driver I would have never pulled out, I would never trust an indicator. Indicators are left on all the time, and if indicators were to be trusted every roundabout in the country would have 50 crashes a day on them.
It's not an issue and can't be used as an excuse

Skill Magill

I've left mine on without noticing loads of times, and if someone was to pull out in front of me, expecting me to turn but not waiting to see whether I did, and I were to crash into them, it would be 100% their fault.
If however I binned it because they lurched forward and I panicked it would still be their fault for crossing when it wasn't clear.
There is no issue here 100% the cars fault.

HamSambo

How sure are you that she has insurance herself??

rowanh

I wasnt injured, i have a nasty bruise on my knee and another half way between my knee and ankle, my wrist, foot and shoulder were sore but i think they are ok.

She told me she was insured.

The side fairing has a bit box shaped crack in it and a good few scrapes, the fairing around the headlight has a gouge out of it and the front mud guard is cracked. One of the indicators was lost and the gear shifter is bent. I got a hole in my trousers also, i dont think i bumped my helmet on the ground but there is a mark on the back of it and the side i fell on that was not there before and im not 100% sure.

I rang bike world, the cost of the two fairings and mudguard is about 1100 euro. The indicator is 38 euro, not sure about the gear lever, i think it can just be bent back out if its heated, its not too bad at the moment. My trousers and helmet are 120 and 225, not sure if they can be part of a claim?

I went to the police station, told them what happened and asked them to get her policy number. Axa who i am insured with told me that i need to contact the insurance company myself, the garda i spoke to thought that was very unusual.

Im a little confused as to how a claim like this would work, if i get on to them and they say the responsibility was 50/50 and i have a quote for the repairs would they just give me half the money? Also if there is a claim on here insurance and i am deemed somewhat responsible would that affect my insurance?

kennM

rowanh wrote: »

I wasnt injured, i have a nasty bruise on my knee and another half way between my knee and ankle, my wrist, foot and shoulder were sore but i think they are ok.

She told me she was insured.

The side fairing has a bit box shaped crack in it and a good few scrapes, the fairing around the headlight has a gouge out of it and the front mud guard is cracked. One of the indicators was lost and the gear shifter is bent. I got a hole in my trousers also, i dont think i bumped my helmet on the ground but there is a mark on the back of it and the side i fell on that was not there before and im not 100% sure.

I rang bike world, the cost of the two fairings and mudguard is about 1100 euro. The indicator is 38 euro, not sure about the gear lever, i think it can just be bent back out if its heated, its not too bad at the moment. My trousers and helmet are 120 and 225, not sure if they can be part of a claim?

I went to the police station, told them what happened and asked them to get her policy number. Axa who i am insured with told me that i need to contact the insurance company myself, the garda i spoke to thought that was very unusual.

Im a little confused as to how a claim like this would work, if i get on to them and they say the responsibility was 50/50 and i have a quote for the repairs would they just give me half the money? Also if there is a claim on here insurance and i am deemed somewhat responsible would that affect my insurance?

Basically all of the damages are material damages, i.e. bike damage, gear, helmet, etc. So they'd all get lumped together. Regarding apportioning blame, this can only be done by a judge ultimately. The insurance company will outline their position after investigating the accident and will likely send out an assessor to look at your bike & the damages. Once they make their position known then it's up to you whether you want to accept or fight it.

Regarding your insurance, it shouldn't make a bit of difference (I'm open to correction here). If you claim off your insurance then you affect your no claims bonus, if you don't claim then your insurance is unaffected. You have't caused any damage to her to cause a claim to come in against your policy.

My gut feeling is the insurance company will want this claim settled as rapidly as possible in the hope to ensure there is no personal injuries claim.

Not in insurance profession, just more experience (from a personal perspective) than I've ever wanted unfortunately.

aaakev

Your insurance company should have all the dealings with her one, not you. Thats what you pay them for

cerastes

I think these things are best dealt with as soon as possible, I think its been well covered even though there are differing opinions on what happened.
Unfortunate for the OP regardless, but Im glad its come up to be discussed. Id be more inclined to watch what the vehicle and if possible the driver/rider is doing (are they looking straight ahead or turning their head) rather than giving to much value to what the indicators are doing from the driver on the road of less importance perspective, that said people make mistakes, but I dont think it should be let go if someone has suffered because of a bad decision.
I think the car driver put themselves in a bad position driving off as they did, but more so if the OP had gotten a witness to that effect and reported it soon.Maybe thats still possible to do? (report)

In the event it ever comes up for me, while I wont say I'll plough into someone to confirm my right of way, Ive no doubt I'll automatically hit the brakes to try avoid a collision in a car or on a bike.

trying to come up with whats possible to take from this?

Bike/helmet cam, sounds like a good idea? (and dash cam for cars)
get details/witnesses? both if possible, or if you think of it at the time/or are able, bit more difficult if someone drives off even after a brief discussion.

AgileMyth

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm with Makikomi on this one. As far as I know, if there was no contact, the insurance companies will side with her. Doesn't mean she's completely in the right. You would have been better off hitting her in regards to making a claim through her insurance. I could be talking out my arse though.

My father had an accident a couple of years back. There was a jeep pulled in on the left hand side which did a u turn just as he came to it. No indication or lights on or anything to suggest he was going to do it.

He reckoned he could get behind it but would have to drop the bike. It was either that or a head on collision so he went for it. No contact with the car but plenty with the tarmac.

Your man's insurance paid out as he was obviously at fault, despite their being no contact.

arybvtcw0eolkf

AgileMyth wrote: »

Your man's insurance paid out as he was obviously at fault, despite their being no contact.

But thats not comparing like with like.. A U-turn is an illegal turn whether the driver has indicated their intention to move or not.

By his own description the OP contributed massively to his own accident.

OP what value is on your bike?.. Because an insurance assessor may say its beyond economic repair and scrap it, in which case go with this and enquire as to how much you can buy the bike back as salvage ~ repair the bike, get an engineers report on the repair and either keep the bike or sell it on, either way there's a good chance you'll make money on the deal.

Frigga_92

rowanh wrote: »

I wasnt injured, i have a nasty bruise on my knee and another half way between my knee and ankle, my wrist, foot and shoulder were sore but i think they are ok.

She told me she was insured.

The side fairing has a bit box shaped crack in it and a good few scrapes, the fairing around the headlight has a gouge out of it and the front mud guard is cracked. One of the indicators was lost and the gear shifter is bent. I got a hole in my trousers also, i dont think i bumped my helmet on the ground but there is a mark on the back of it and the side i fell on that was not there before and im not 100% sure.

I rang bike world, the cost of the two fairings and mudguard is about 1100 euro. The indicator is 38 euro, not sure about the gear lever, i think it can just be bent back out if its heated, its not too bad at the moment. My trousers and helmet are 120 and 225, not sure if they can be part of a claim?

I went to the police station, told them what happened and asked them to get her policy number. Axa who i am insured with told me that i need to contact the insurance company myself, the garda i spoke to thought that was very unusual.

Im a little confused as to how a claim like this would work, if i get on to them and they say the responsibility was 50/50 and i have a quote for the repairs would they just give me half the money? Also if there is a claim on here insurance and i am deemed somewhat responsible would that affect my insurance?

Glad to hear you are not too badly injured.
Any gear damaged should be included as part of the claim. Most definitely include your helmet as part of the claim, that small mark could be something far more significant in the inner shell of the helmet.

As regards Axa, it is up to them to handle this matter for you, that is why you pay your insurance. Once the claim is being processed be wary of any phone calls you may get from the other driver or her insurance company and make sure you direct everything back to your insurance company.

At this point you really need to make a decision about whether you are going to involve your insurance company or not as it is now nearly a week since the accident.
It's all fine and well for posters to give you advice etc. but there are no absolutes in litigation and every case is different so the only way you are going to get definitive answers is to make a decision one way or the other with regard to your insurance company.
In my experience, the way two insurance companies might handle a simple case which only involves material damage (which seems to be what you are leaning towards) is very different to the way two insurance companies might handle a personal injuries case with regard to both the liability aspect and the monetary aspect.

Frigga_92

AgileMyth wrote: »

Your man's insurance paid out as he was obviously at fault, despite their being no contact.

Sydney Jealous Hamster wrote: »

But thats not comparing like with like.. A U-turn is an illegal turn whether the driver has indicated their intention to move or not.

It's all to do with causing someone to alter their course.

rowanh

I rang my insurance company on Monday and explained what happened then went to the garda station and went through what happened with them. The person from Axa thought that her insurance company would accept responsibility, the garda i spoke to thought it would be split between us.

The bike is an 09 ninja 250 with 5k miles or so, i bought it for 2800, id say the market value is probably a bit less. I read somewhere that if the repair cost is 80% or more than they scrap it though im not sure if thats accurate.

I was thinking the handle bars didn't seem to be pointing straight forward when going straight when i was first driving it, i haven't since, im not sure if i just got used to it, i should probably get a mechanic to look at it incase im missing something.

So im waiting for the girl to bring in her insurance to her local station which she has ten days to do, then i need to follow up with the garda because "ah you know, we have piles of paper her to get through and its easy to miss things".. In fairness the guy i was dealing with was fairly sound, he had something similar happen to him years ago on a bike.

I thought it was a bit strange that Axa said they are not dealing with it, they sent me a name of a claim handler to contact if i have any questions so i will get on to him and see what they will and wont do for me.