Working On A US Holiday Visa

Jasonsc

Hey,

I'm planning to head to the USA for 2 months this summer. I won't be employed while over there - but I will be working. I own a company which is based online that will require a few hours of my attention daily.

Is this allowed? I will have significant cash reserves while heading over, and also have proof of residence here. I'll also be going back to college to finish my degree next year, and can provide proof of this also. I just would like to know if it's legal for me to continue running my company while on holiday over there?

Sort of a unique situation I know, and I couldn't find any other sources for information. I'm thinking I need to apply for a B1 visa - as with the B2 even though I will be doing "business" while over there, I won't be actually going for business purposes.

Thanks for any information!

iusedtoknow

Unfortunately not .... you cannot do anything that is considered "gainful" employment - even if it is your situation. For example - if you are on vacation in the US - you aren't technically earning because of your job, you are being paid because of your vacation time that you have accrued with your employer.

Even when you enter the country on the VWP for business purposes you have to be very careful with your wording - i know someone who nearly got turned back as they said "work" instead of "business". You can enter say to attend meetings, a conference or training but should not be doing something that is similar to your day to day role.

It sounds like a gray area, but it isn't. You can't "work" in any way when you are here.

OU812

Came in to ask a similar question, so maybe if I hop on this thread it's ok OP?

I'm doing a bit of contracting work for a company which will be setting up in the US. They want me to spend considerable amounts of time there over the next year, however, my company is here & I'll be paid from here, my house (mortgage) is here, my wife & kids are here (apart from visits), they have work & school commitments.

It's likely that I'll have to be there for about two-three months at a time & back here for a month over the next year as we move into the actual setting up period.

The company are looking to invest substantially in the US, creating employment - I'm not sure if I'll be along for the duration, but I do need to be there for business purposes.

I don't think an ESTA is possible in this circumstance. Would I be looking for a B or E ?

Jasonsc

Sure, jump in.

Thanks for the reply - I was wondering if you could give me a link to an official site where this is described? I really thought it was a grey area. I could try to get in and say nothing.. but it doesn't seem worth it.

DM addict

Jason - can you clarify what exactly you're going to be doing when you're working? From your OP, it seems as though you'll be spending a couple of hours a day working on your computer - not working in an office, or anything like that - is that correct?

I would have assumed that this kind of work would be ok, as you're not getting involved in the US employment system, but that's just my assumption. You're not going to be employed in the US, as you're already employed elsewhere.

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visitor.html#overview - might have the info you need.

iusedtoknow

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/unitedkingdom/164203/cons-visa/AmEmbassy_London_visa_webchat14.pdf

Top of the first page in a webchat, which is hosted on the US department of State website

Q: I have a German passport and am employed by a UK university. I am also a consultant for a
US company. I would like to visit my girlfriend in the US for a month and work from her flat. Do I
need a visa to do this?

A: Yes. Individuals cannot work for a U.S. company, even remotely, while in the United States
under the terms of the Visa Waiver Program.

DM addict

iusedtoknow wrote: »

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/unitedkingdom/164203/cons-visa/AmEmbassy_London_visa_webchat14.pdf

Top of the first page in a webchat, which is hosted on the US department of State website

Q: I have a German passport and am employed by a UK university. I am also a consultant for a
US company. I would like to visit my girlfriend in the US for a month and work from her flat. Do I
need a visa to do this?

A: Yes. Individuals cannot work for a U.S. company, even remotely, while in the United States
under the terms of the Visa Waiver Program.

But what if the OP works for an Irish/UK company, remotely?

In fairness, it's probably best to give them a call.

iusedtoknow

DM addict wrote: »

But what if the OP works for an Irish/UK company, remotely?

In fairness, it's probably best to give them a call.

the embassy are really hard to get hold of...

From experience, it can't be done. The VWP is purely for tourism or undertaking business meetings/attending conferences etc.

DM addict

iusedtoknow wrote: »

the embassy are really hard to get hold of...

From experience, it can't be done. The VWP is purely for tourism or undertaking business meetings/attending conferences etc.

I bow to your superior knowledge. I have a work visa, so not really something I've come across.

iusedtoknow

DM addict wrote: »

I bow to your superior knowledge. I have a work visa, so not really something I've come across.

Oh me too (L1) but when I was coming in and out before hand to work with my company that I had to be careful not to be doing my "normal day's work" while in the country

Even though it looks like a grey area, it isn't. You can't work on the visa, even if it's for yourself

whitey1

I don't think there would be a problem with you spending a couple of hours a day online doing what you need to get done.

How is that any different from a business person coming on vacation and checking their voicemail and email responding to both daily.

How could that even be enforced?

iusedtoknow

whitey1 wrote: »

I don't think there would be a problem with you spending a couple of hours a day online doing what you need to get done.

How is that any different from a business person coming on vacation and checking their voicemail and email responding to both daily.

How could that even be enforced?

The question is though, would you feel comfortable telling the CBP that was your plan, in the same way a business man coming in for meetings etc is would be.

I know I wouldn't..

whitey1

iusedtoknow wrote: »

The question is though, would you feel comfortable telling the CBP that was your plan, in the same way a business man coming in for meetings etc is would be.

I know I wouldn't..

LOL-There's a lot of things I wouldn't voluntarily tell them either. Eg "I'm going to a wedding (and plan to drink 20 beers and 10 shots, and get into a fight with my third cousin").


OP will not be seeking gainful, paid employment while in the United States-PERIOD. I do not see a problem

Every time I go to Ireland (I'm a US Citizen) I have to check work email and voicemail daily. Sometimes takes 10 minutes, sometimes takes 2 hours.

Should I pull the guy in Shannon aside and ask him if it's all right for me to check my messages while I'm there

I think we're creating an issue that doesn't exist

spideog7

What is the main purpose of your trip OP? It sounds like you're going over there for a holiday but you happen to have to do a bit of work while you're over there. If that's the case then as mentioned it's no different to checking your work email while you're away, non issue in my opinion.

If the main purpose of your trip is to be at a specific location to be able to perform this work then that's a different story.

Jasonsc

Mixed thoughts so far in this thread - I appreciate everyones views, thank you.

The main purpose of my visit is a holiday - but I will have work to keep up with while there also. Some days I could work for 30 mins, other days I might work for 5 hours. The thing is - I don't have a registered company yet since things have only really picked up in the last few months. Another thing is that literally everyone I work with is American.

I just don't want to go through the whole process and then get turned back in the airport. While all their restrictions are understandable - it's really off putting.

So the embassy is pretty impossible to get in contact with? Is there anywhere else I might try to get a definitive answer on this?

ProudDUB

Jasonsc wrote: »

Mixed thoughts so far in this thread - I appreciate everyones views, thank you.

The main purpose of my visit is a holiday - but I will have work to keep up with while there also. Some days I could work for 30 mins, other days I might work for 5 hours. The thing is - I don't have a registered company yet since things have only really picked up in the last few months. Another thing is that literally everyone I work with is American.

I just don't want to go through the whole process and then get turned back in the airport. While all their restrictions are understandable - it's really off putting.

So the embassy is pretty impossible to get in contact with? Is there anywhere else I might try to get a definitive answer on this?

Ok, the bold bit is a red flag. What does that have to do with anything?

I was under the impression that you were just a self employed business owner, based in Ireland & all you wanted to do was keep tabs on your company while you were away....reply to emails, deal with client queries or online customer service issues, set up meetings when you get back etc etc.

If that is all you plan on doing, I don't see how doing any of that could be a problem. Loads of self employed people go away on holiday. The internet has now made it possible for them to keep tabs on their companies while they are away. They don't need any special visas to do so.

But you are now introducing American co workers? What does that mean?

InTheTrees

If I take my laptop on holiday with me and check work email and maybe write some work email, it doesnt mean I'm on a working holiday.

There is an acceptable amount of contact one can have with ones work place without it being construed as being "at work".

What if you sketched out an idea for the Next Big Thing on a napkin? Or met someone in the same line of work and talked about work?

Jasonsc

I mentioned working with American people solely to add more context to my situation. What I mean is that in the industry I operate in, the vast majority of other companies I deal with are American companies. I mentioned it, because it could appear that I'm trying to get in on a holiday visa to permanently work there.

The whole not being employed in America even if I manage my company a little/primarily being there for a holiday thing makes perfect sense to me. But it's the US officials that make the rules and who have the final say at the end of the day. My concern is not that I COULD be doing something wrong by working a little while on holiday - it's that my case is misconstrued, and I'm refused entry because I may appear as a non-standard/risky visitor by Us definition.

iusedtoknow

The only real danger you'll face at CBP is the time that you will be in the US.
Will you be staying in just one place or traveling around?
Do you have enough cash to last the whole time?

Not a lot of people have the means/time to spend 2 months without working, so you'll probably be flagged for a few more questions than normal

Beyond that you should be OK.

spideog7

Jasonsc wrote: »

I mentioned working with American people solely to add more context to my situation. What I mean is that in the industry I operate in, the vast majority of other companies I deal with are American companies. I mentioned it, because it could appear that I'm trying to get in on a holiday visa to permanently work there.

The whole not being employed in America even if I manage my company a little/primarily being there for a holiday thing makes perfect sense to me. But it's the US officials that make the rules and who have the final say at the end of the day. My concern is not that I COULD be doing something wrong by working a little while on holiday - it's that my case is misconstrued, and I'm refused entry because I may appear as a non-standard/risky visitor by Us definition.

You're not going over to work, right? You said yourself you were going for a holiday. So don't even bring up work, just tell them the truth, that you're going over for a holiday. They don't want to know every iota of your life so you don't need to tell it to them.

Jasonsc

Thanks for the replies.

I intend to stay in one place while I'm there for the most part - might make one trip while I'm there.

So, as long as I have enough money in the bank going over there, proof that I'll be coming home (letter from college), and proof of family ties, I should be good?

If I show a bank statement with sufficient funds, is it likely I'll be asked what my job is/ where I got the money/time to take 2 months off? If I say I work for myself online, I can see it raising red flags. Very easy to give the impression that I might try stay over there living off my online income. Although I wouldn't even have a US bank account so I'm not sure that would even be a concern.

Aaaah, so stressful...

I think I should probably just forge ahead with getting a place to stay and applying for the visa. Worst comes to worst, I'll have wasted a small deposit on a room and the price of flights.

Any additional thoughts would be appreciated but I think this thread has served its purpose. Thanks everyone!

whitey1

Jasonsc wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I intend to stay in one place while I'm there for the most part - might make one trip while I'm there.

So, as long as I have enough money in the bank going over there, proof that I'll be coming home (letter from college), and proof of family ties, I should be good?

If I show a bank statement with sufficient funds, is it likely I'll be asked what my job is/ where I got the money/time to take 2 months off? If I say I work for myself online, I can see it raising red flags. Very easy to give the impression that I might try stay over there living off my online income. Although I wouldn't even have a US bank account so I'm not sure that would even be a concern.

Aaaah, so stressful...

I think I should probably just forge ahead with getting a place to stay and applying for the visa. Worst comes to worst, I'll have wasted a small deposit on a room and the price of flights.

Any additional thoughts would be appreciated but I think this thread has served its purpose. Thanks everyone!

Youre overthinking this one son.

Youre coming on vacation-end of story.

If I were in your shoes for peace of mind I'd book a 2 week vacation, then change the date of my return flight once you are here

Ponster

OP

The B1 visa sounds like the thing that you need to put your mind at rest but I really think that you are over-complicating the issue. You're traveling to the US on holiday and during that time you intend to spend some time checking up on your business, something which I find perfectly normal as I have often done it myself in the past. Have you been to the US before? The officer will just ask you why you're travelling and as long as nothing flags on his screen that'll be about it. No need to add lots of extra information that hasn't been asked for. Sure, have the bank statement ready if asked for it but I really doubt that you'll be a special case, travelling to the US for 2 months with just a laptop.

While my reply may seem flippant I spent 3 years sending people to the USA for work for month periods and each time we evaluated with our company lawyers if a B1 was required or not. There is a surprisingly amount of cases where the visa waiver allows one to work in the USA and anyone who wanted to travel to the US on vacation and who also wanted to check their mails and join the odd conference call would be sent off with just the waiver.

The waiver gives you the right to conduct business in the US; meeting clients, going to conferences, to the extent of having US customers sign business contracts). This is what it means when you say that you are going to the US for 'business reasons'.

dimcoin

Just don't tell customs that you are attending your company in IE remotely. You are not working here or taking anyone's job here, should not be a problem.

dobsdave

whitey1 wrote: »

Youre overthinking this one son.

Youre coming on vacation-end of story.

If I were in your shoes for peace of mind I'd book a 2 week vacation, then change the date of my return flight once you are here

Its a pity this wasn't the first reply to the OP.

OP you will be fine on the vwp, stop worrying and enjoy the vacation.