Write off

Steve2007 · 07-05-2014 5:30pm #1

I viewed a bmw320d last year which was advertised on a website here in Ireland. The car is 2002 and very good condition. It is uk reg, so seller deducted the price of vrt and gave some discount from asking price. we agreed €3000. I paid €400 deposit and agreed collection within a week or so.
I went home and carried out an online hp check which reveled a cat D insurance write off.
I contacted the seller who said he didn't know anything about the insurance history. When I asked for my deposit back, he claimed that I wasn't entitled to refund as the car was sold as seen and wasn't sold pending passing any further inspection. I suggested that the car wasn't fit for the intended use. He stated that it was, that the insurance history didn't render the car unusable in any way. He also stated that he would get a garage report from an independent garage for me.
Over the following few weeks and months I noticed this same guy advertising several cars on the same site, but as a private seller.
Iv'e done some research on him and found that he did at one time trade as a small independent car sales. He did give me a receipt for my deposit, but wrote a different name and address (Not his true details) on it.
Would I have any chance of getting my money back, if I were to go the legal route?

corktina · 07-05-2014 6:16pm

A cat d write off is usually nothing to worry about provided you pay the correct amount for it . Why have you left it so long to take action?

discombobulate · 07-05-2014 6:26pm

As said a Cat D is generally nothing to worry about. It's usually panel damage without any structural damage so you'd be probably be wrong in arguing it's not fit for purpose. It would have been wrote off as the price of new parts were exceeding a percentage value of the car and was probably then fixed up with second hand parts or repaired.

Without being much of a BMW head is 3 grand not a lot of money for a 12 year old 320d?

Main thing i'd be worried about on an 02 from the UK is that it had been clocked.

challengemaster · 07-05-2014 6:48pm

discombobulate wrote: »

Without being much of a BMW head is 3 grand not a lot of money for a 12 year old 320d?

Nope, 04-05 are around 6-7k

Steve2007 · 07-05-2014 7:13pm

corktina wrote: »

A cat d write off is usually nothing to worry about provided you pay the correct amount for it . Why have you left it so long to take action?

I didnt really think that I would have any grounds to seek the return of my deposit. I'm now thinking that since he is some sort of car dealer/trader, that I might just be in a position to seek return.
I'm thinking, was there an illegality on his side for giving a false name?

Atlantic Dawn · 07-05-2014 7:25pm

Did you see the full V5 document, is it in the name of the seller? You will need the full V5 to VRT the car, if it's not in the persons name the car could potentially be stolen.

challengemaster · 07-05-2014 7:29pm

Seller an Irish resident?

Steve2007 · 07-05-2014 7:55pm

challengemaster wrote: »

Seller an Irish resident?

yes i assume so

Steve2007 · 07-05-2014 8:00pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Did you see the full V5 document, is it in the name of the seller? You will need the full V5 to VRT the car, if it's not in the persons name the car could potentially be stolen.

He did have the v5. I carried out a Hpi check which stated that all was ok. Not stolen, mileage is correct. Just the cat d insurance write off 3 or 4 years ago. Serial no on v5 also checked out ok.

challengemaster · 07-05-2014 8:01pm

Steve2007 wrote: »

yes i assume so

It's a little bit illegal for Irish residents to sell UK registered vehicles. Dealers also have to pay VRT before selling them.

Steve2007 · 07-05-2014 8:07pm

challengemaster wrote: »

It's a little bit illegal for Irish residents to sell UK registered vehicles. Dealers also have to pay VRT before selling them.

I agree, but i dont think that will make much difference regarding getting my deposit back

discombobulate · 07-05-2014 9:36pm

Steve2007 wrote: »

I agree, but i dont think that will make much difference regarding getting my deposit back

In reality if he refuses your only chance would be the small claims court. He may get worried if hes doing a bit of small time dealing as he likely wouldn't be paying his taxes etc.

ba_barabus · 07-05-2014 9:39pm

discombobulate wrote: »

In reality if he refuses your only chance would be the small claims court. He may get worried if hes doing a bit of small time dealing as he likely wouldn't be paying his taxes etc.

Or he is happy in the knowledge you don't have a registered address for him. A threat of reporting him to revenue would be far more effective.

Although if I'm honest I feel OP may be over reacting.

georgefalls · 08-05-2014 9:44am

challengemaster wrote: »

It's a little bit illegal for Irish residents to sell UK registered vehicles. Dealers also have to pay VRT before selling them.

"a little bit illegal"..??? You got me there. Either it is, or it isn't

Steve2007 · 08-05-2014 10:42am

georgefalls wrote: »

"a little bit illegal"..??? You got me there. Either it is, or it isn't

I'm thinking everyone has to vrt before selling. I dont think it will make much difference tho.
I'm thinking, did he break any laws by using false name? Some of my friends think that he may have. Others think that he didnt.

Andy_Dublin · 08-05-2014 10:44am

It is illegal to sell a UK car here unless you have a TAN number which is obtained from Revenue.

Steve2007 · 08-05-2014 10:48am

Andy_Dublin wrote: »

It is illegal to sell a UK car here unless you have a TAN number which is obtained from Revenue.

This may be so but its not my concern.

Andy_Dublin · 08-05-2014 10:53am

Steve2007 wrote: »

This may be so but its not my concern.

The fact is it could be used as a bargaining tool, he's selling uk cars illegally, he took your deposit and didn't refund you. Give me back my deposit or I'll report you.... simples.

Steve2007 · 08-05-2014 11:21am

Andy_Dublin wrote: »

The fact is it could be used as a bargaining tool, he's selling uk cars illegally, he took your deposit and didn't refund you. Give me back my deposit or I'll report you.... simples.

I pointed that out to him at the time. He didnt seem to worried about it.

Andy_Dublin · 08-05-2014 11:27am

Go ahead and do it so. It's not just selling UK cars illegally, it's also not declaring the income from the sales.

djimi · 08-05-2014 11:29am

Id say get all of your evidence together and try the small claims court route. It might lead to nothing, but its cheap enough to try, and for the sake of €400 he might just decide its not worth the hassle.

Dia1988 · 08-05-2014 11:34am

Just out of i terest, how were you going to get insurance to cover you if you were to buy and collect the UK reg BMW?

Is there any insurance company in Ireland that insures non Irish reg cars with Irish residents?

corktina · 08-05-2014 11:35am

Dia1988 wrote: »

Just out of i terest, how were you going to get insurance to cover you if you were to buy and collect the UK reg BMW?

Is there any insurance company in Ireland that insures non Irish reg cars with Irish residents?

yeah they all will more or less, you have 30 days before they grass you up to the Man

Dia1988 · 08-05-2014 11:51am

corktina wrote: »

yeah they all will more or less, you have 30 days before they grass you up to the Man

Are you sure?

I have rang Liberty, Allianz, FBD and an insurance broker and all have quoted me that I cannot insure a UK registered car if I am not a UK resident. I.e the car must be registered in Ireland as is the owner otherwise theres no insurable interest.
Can only insure under motor trade insurance

Can you suggest an insurance company that can?

Steve2007 · 08-05-2014 12:51pm

Dia1988 wrote: »

Just out of i terest, how were you going to get insurance to cover you if you were to buy and collect the UK reg BMW?

Is there any insurance company in Ireland that insures non Irish reg cars with Irish residents?

I expect that most of them will cover on a temporary basis, until u get it vrt'd.

Dia1988 · 08-05-2014 12:55pm

Steve2007 wrote: »

I expect that most of them will cover on a temporary basis, until u get it vrt'd.[/

Are you sure?
I have rang Liberty, Allianz, FBD and an insurance broker and all have quoted me that I cannot insure a UK registered car if I am not a UK resident. I.e the car must be registered in Ireland as is the owner otherwise theres no insurable interest.
Can only insure under motor trade insurance

Can you suggest an insurance company that can?

discombobulate · 08-05-2014 12:58pm

Steve2007 wrote: »

I expect that most of them will cover on a temporary basis, until u get it vrt'd.

If you have a policy already they'd give temporary cover on it but not if you don't in my experience.

Dia1988 · 08-05-2014 1:06pm

Nope, liberty didnt let me do that and the broker said that it cannot be done either. The car must be registered in the state where the owner resides to be able to insure the car.

Or use a motor trade policy

REXER · 08-05-2014 1:20pm

Dia1988 wrote: »

Nope, liberty didnt let me do that and the broker said that it cannot be done either. The car must be registered in the state where the owner resides to be able to insure the car.

Or use a motor trade policy

Hundreds of people on Boards have managed to do it and I have as well. I bought a bike, got temp cover for it went over and collected it, rode it home, sorted the VRT/Reg no issues at all. It must be the questions that you are asking or how you are asking the questions.

Dia1988 · 08-05-2014 1:34pm

REXER wrote: »

Hundreds of people on Boards have managed to do it and I have as well. I bought a bike, got temp cover for it went over and collected it, rode it home, sorted the VRT/Reg no issues at all. It must be the questions that you are asking or how you are asking the questions.

That's all very well when everything goes smoothly and the UK reg is down as having insurance on the ANPR cameras.

But, what if you had an accident would the insurance question the dact that the driver may not be fully insured due to he/she driving a UK reg car and being resident in another state?

So far, i have found no insurance company that can cover me on a UK reg car outside of a motor trade policy.

Anyone know of an Irish resident "insured" in a UK reg car that had an accident where the insurance company paid out?

lintdrummer · 08-05-2014 1:49pm

Dia1988 wrote: »

That's all very well when everything goes smoothly and the UK reg is down as having insurance on the ANPR cameras.

But, what if you had an accident would the insurance question the dact that the driver may not be fully insured due to he/she driving a UK reg car and being resident in another state?

So far, i have found no insurance company that can cover me on a UK reg car outside of a motor trade policy.

Anyone know of an Irish resident "insured" in a UK reg car that had an accident where the insurance company paid out?

I bought a northern reg 3 series years ago and got insured with 123.ie on the proviso that the car would be registered in the republic within 30 days, which it was. No hassle.

Steve2007 · 08-05-2014 2:54pm

Dia1988 wrote: »

That's all very well when everything goes smoothly and the UK reg is down as having insurance on the ANPR cameras.

But, what if you had an accident would the insurance question the dact that the driver may not be fully insured due to he/she driving a UK reg car and being resident in another state?

So far, i have found no insurance company that can cover me on a UK reg car outside of a motor trade policy.

Anyone know of an Irish resident "insured" in a UK reg car that had an accident where the insurance company paid out?

My brother transferred his insurance to said 320d, with the condition that he send new Irl reg to them within 30 days or else they would cancel the policy.
Now back to my question. Did this seller do anything wrong by using an alias name when taking my deposit. Some of my friends think yea he acted dishonestly, more say he didnt as he stayed in contact with me and didnt run off with the money. I dunno

Write off

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