first time detail

mikeyod123

So my farther has noticed lots of red dust and black specs on his car that didnt come off after a recent wash so I said i would try sort it for him. So I have done a lot of reading on the forum and elsewhere and have an idea of what to do but I am looking for some guidance if im right or not.

Start with a wash with the 2 bucket method, then a de-tar followed by another wash, then use a clay bar on the car followed by a wash and polish.

Am I right with this method or is there something im missing. Also i was wondering what a compound is and do i need to use one?

Thanks very much for any help.

Ded_Zebra

Do you have any pictures of the car? Sounds like unusual contamination.

The main thing you are missing from your list is a wax/sealant. This will protect the car and kep it looking good for longer

randy hickey

Is there any chance the red dust that won't come off is iron oxide contamination or the like?
If it is, the you'll need a fallout remover as well.

The black spots are most likely tar alright, but you've that taken care of.

A compound is another name for a polish medium with a heavy cut, but then you're into the area of machine polishing - Junkman tutorial videos will educate you on this.

mikeyod123

Thats a picture of the red stuff. Its only on the right hand side of the car at the bottom of the doors and i have no idea what it is.

Thanks for the help so far. So the only thing I was missing was a wax/sealant. From the reading ive done I see collinite 845 mentioned a lot. Would this be a the wax to buy? and I was wondering is it easily applied by hand or is it mostly used in machine polishing?

thanks again

Curran

That looks like iron particles....by any chance did he have a stuck caliper or pads that needed changing on that side of the car at any stage?

Collinite 845 is a very nice wax, easy to apply by hand as long as its not cold, you can leave the bottle sitting in warm water to help warm / soften it up.
It's not used for machine polishing, as its not polish. I can be applied by machine if you wanted, but thats a bit OTT if you ask me.

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

That looks like iron particles....by any chance did he have a stuck caliper or pads that needed changing on that side of the car at any stage?

Collinite 845 is a very nice wax, easy to apply by hand as long as its not cold, you can leave the bottle sitting in warm water to help warm / soften it up.
It's not used for machine polishing, as its not polish. I can be applied by machine if you wanted, but thats a bit OTT if you ask me.

Ya the brake pads were recently changed on the car so that must be it. Will that come off with the use of a claybar or will I need something else?

thanks for the info and I think ill go ahead and buy some collinite 845 so

Curran

Claybar will take a certain amount of it off, but to be honest, its Iron....Id rather remove it safely than be rubbing clay back and forth over it, with the iron getting embedded in the paint work and as a result micro-scratching the area, which will result in dulling of the paintwork in that area. And if you were do do any areas there after with the clay.

You need to look a fallout removers - spray on, let them do their thing (they'll turn purple on contact with contamination), dwell time of about 5 mins, and then rinse. That area is quite bad, so it will probably need two or three attempts in areas as heavily contaminated as that shown in the picture.

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

Claybar will take a certain amount of it off, but to be honest, its Iron....Id rather remove it safely than be rubbing clay back and forth over it, with the iron getting embedded in the paint work and as a result micro-scratching the area, which will result in dulling of the paintwork in that area. And if you were do do any areas there after with the clay.

You need to look a fallout removers - spray on, let them do their thing (they'll turn purple on contact with contamination), dwell time of about 5 mins, and then rinse. That area is quite bad, so it will probably need two or three attempts in areas as heavily contaminated as that shown in the picture.

thanks very much for the help, ill get a fallout remover instead of using a claybar on it so

Curran

Well do you intend on doing a job on the whole car? If so, then I'd strongly recommend both.
Claying the car makes such a difference to the appearance, and also the the durability of whatever you decide to apply to the paintwork afterwards.

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

Well do you intend on doing a job on the whole car? If so, then I'd strongly recommend both.
Claying the car makes such a difference to the appearance, and also the the durability of whatever you decide to apply to the paintwork afterwards.

yes I still intend to clay the whole car but I will use the fallout on the iron first before I go near it with a claybar or would you suggest a different approach?

Curran

Sorry, took you up wrong - thought you mean you were going to use just a fallout remover on it. But you mean you'll use that instead of using clay to try remove it.

Thats the approach - wash, rinse, fall-out remover, clay, protect. You can use the fall out remover on all the paintwork - it will make the claying much, much easier and safer too.

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

Sorry, took you up wrong - thought you mean you were going to use just a fallout remover on it. But you mean you'll use that instead of using clay to try remove it.

Thats the approach - wash, rinse, fall-out remover, clay, protect. You can use the fall out remover on all the paintwork - it will make the claying much, much easier and safer too.

thanks very much for the advice. If I get a fallout remover specifically for iron would I also need a tar remover or would the iron also remove the tar if I use it on the whole car.

randy hickey

mikeyod123 wrote: »

thanks very much for the advice. If I get a fallout remover specifically for iron would I also need a tar remover or would the iron also remove the tar if I use it on the whole car.

If you get a chance Mikey, maybe you could take a few before and after photos when you're doing it and stick them up here in the Today I Did Some Detailing thread.

mikeyod123

randy hickey wrote: »

If you get a chance Mikey, maybe you could take a few before and after photos when you're doing it and stick them up here in the Today I Did Some Detailing thread.

I will definitely do so

Curran

Fall out removers are specifically, but some I have used, so have a small effect on tar. But to be honest, you'd ideally need both, especially if it hasnt been de-tar'd recently.

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

Fall out removers are specifically, but some I have used, so have a small effect on tar. But to be honest, you'd ideally need both, especially if it hasnt been de-tar'd recently.

ok I will get both. Do I then use the de-tar and fallout in the same step as each other after a wash and before I claybar the car?

Curran

Wash, rinse, let drip dry, de-tar, let dwell, rinse, let drip for a min or two, fallout remover, let dwell, rinse, clay, wash, dry....then either...
a) polish if you want to, followed by wax / sealant
b) straight to wax / sealant

Even without polishing, the change in appearance will be dramatic! Promise!

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

Wash, rinse, let drip dry, de-tar, let dwell, rinse, let drip for a min or two, fallout remover, let dwell, rinse, clay, wash, dry....then either...
a) polish if you want to, followed by wax / sealant
b) straight to wax / sealant

Even without polishing, the change in appearance will be dramatic! Promise!

I already have some polish so ill most lightly polish and then use the collinite 845. When you say wash and then rinse, what exactly do you mean by rinse?
and thank you very much for all your help so far Curran

Curran

Just a quick hose down, enough to ensure that the residue is gone!

Just on the polish - it might hinder the bonding of the 845....so if you do polish. Id advice you to maybe wash the car again, with a strong All Purpose Cleaner mixture to remove the polish...this will leave a totally bare paint surface for the 845 to bond to, and give you best durability for that product.

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

Just a quick hose down, enough to ensure that the residue is gone!

Just on the polish - it might hinder the bonding of the 845....so if you do polish. Id advice you to maybe wash the car again, with a strong All Purpose Cleaner mixture to remove the polish...this will leave a totally bare paint surface for the 845 to bond to, and give you best durability for that product.

The polish I have is the autoglym super reisin polish and from reading online this is supposedly a good combination with collinite so do you still think it would be necessary to wash after the polish?

Curran

I would personally, but that said, I havent tried to combo them, so cant say that they wouldnt work - generally speaking, two products from different manufacturers, there is a good chance they wont work well, but there is quite a few cases where they do.
Super Resin Polish will help hide swirls and other defects, so it would improve the look....did all those reviews have a follow up review; everything will always look great, its down the line that you might be a bit disappointed - try it, sure if it doesnt work, strip it off and apply it on its own!

mikeyod123

Curran wrote: »

I would personally, but that said, I havent tried to combo them, so cant say that they wouldnt work - generally speaking, two products from different manufacturers, there is a good chance they wont work well, but there is quite a few cases where they do.
Super Resin Polish will help hide swirls and other defects, so it would improve the look....did all those reviews have a follow up review; everything will always look great, its down the line that you might be a bit disappointed - try it, sure if it doesnt work, strip it off and apply it on its own!

Ill give it a go and find out sure. Thanks very much for all your help Curran, ive gotten some great information and hopefully ill see some great results when I get it done

Jambo

First of all apologies for the log post and for somewhat Hijacking the thread.

I recently purchased a main dealers ex demo, and I am unsure where to start with regards protecting and detailing my car, hence over the last week my search for the best practices and methods I have ended up possibly more confused than ever with my best form of a plan coming currans post #17

Curran wrote: »

Wash, rinse, let drip dry, de-tar, let dwell, rinse, let drip for a min or two, fallout remover, let dwell, rinse, clay, wash, dry....then either...
a) polish if you want to, followed by wax / sealant
b) straight to wax / sealant

Even without polishing, the change in appearance will be dramatic! Promise!

The Car is a 132 Reg with 20k km’s already on the clock ,I am also unsure of what surface protection they have used to date (when asked they said they used meguiars wax before handover but I doubt it and think the used more of a liquid shampoo /wax combo) As far as the car goes paintwork is immaculate and is close on 100% delivery condition to the naked eye plus I don't see or feel any issues but I do wonder about fallout, tar etc considering the car already has already built up 20k km’s on the clock in demos to countrywide dealers etc.

Based on the above dilemma and taking into account/ expanding Currans post - I would be grateful if some posters can help me fill in the blanks and rewrite my thoughts below with regards the process flow for the initial detailing, upkeep and the equipment I will need. (Bearing in mind I would like to start good but also have to watch my budget)

I assume not knowing the background of the car (with regards protection )am I best to start from the beginning .ie strip it back etc?

Any time I used to polish my previous cars - I was always used Autoglym and still have some products left over but am willing to change / listen to your advice.

First Run / Detailing

Step 1- Pre Wash
Equipment Needed - Snow Foam Lance , Power Washer, Towel ?
Chemicals Needed - Snow Foam

Method
Wet car (Bodywork,Trim,Wheels) with a spray hose,
Soak with snow foam, let dwell,
Am I correct to say this step involves no physical contact with the car ?
Rinse off and let drip dry (Can I towel to cut down on time?)

Step 2 - Remove Contaminants / Impurities etc (Tar / Fallout)

(2a) De-Tar (if required)
Equipment Needed - None ?
Chemicals Needed - De Tarring Solution

Method
Once car is dry - inspect for tar (how is best to do this ? I assume is not always easily visible)
Treat car with a de-tarring solution, let dwell for a minute or two
Rinse off
Dry (Again can I towel)

(2b) Remove Fallout (If Required)
Equipment Needed - None ?
Chemicals Needed - Fallout Remover

Method
Once car is dry - inspect for fallout (how is best to do this ? I have seen methods just like rub your hand on the paintwork, use a plastic bag/ cellophane)
Apply fallout remover
Rinse off
Dry (Again can I towel)

(2c) Clay (If Required)
Equipment Needed - ?
Chemicals Needed - Lubercaint, Clay Bar

Method
Is claying just required in areas where fallout and tar has been removed from ?
Use Lubricant and Clay as required
Rinse off.

Step 3 Shampoo ( Should this be also step 1B - to make sure I have a clean surface to check for fallout etc and clay ie so I won't run the risk of rubbing dirt particles over the paintwork)

Equipment Needed - 2 Buckets with Grit Guards,Wash Mitts,Towel
Chemicals Needed - Non Wax Shampoo

Method

Soak Car with shampoo spray
Let Dwell
Wash off using the 2 bucket method.
Drip Dry and Finish off with a Towel

Step 3 - Polish ( If Required)

Equipment Needed - Polishing Cloths
Chemicals Needed - Polish
Method - Apply As per manufacturers/product guidelines

Step 4 - Wax

Equipment Needed - Applicator Pads / Microfibre Cloths
Chemicals Needed - Wax
Method Apply As per manufacturers/product guidelines , 1 to 3 coats as required, do I need to tape of trim , rubber etc ?

Sealant is this another step or is this part of the waxing step ?

What Kit Do I require for the above ?
How long should I allow for the above ?
Do I need to prep and protect the alloys separate from the bodywork ? likewise with the exterior trim (most of which is body coloured or gloss)

Also the water in my area is hard ? how can I best deal with this ?

Weekly Maintenance - what is the best practice ? just a light shampoo ? or do I need snow foam and if so will that damage/stip my wax ?

Sorry for all the questions ! But I would be great to have a sticky guide in the forum for a basic detailing guide as over the last week I have found conflicting information over various sites which has left me more confused than ever.

randy hickey

In your Step 1, just allow the car to drip dry - any dirt that the SF hasn't removed would be picked up by a drying towel turning it into a rather large paint scratching device.

BTW some advocate applying SF to a dry car on the basis that it allows the SF to dwell longer and thus have longer to act on the dirt/traffic film - but I wouldn't get too hung up on this.

Step 2: As regards detarring, I would always spray it onto a dry car - if the car is wet it can dilute the effectiveness of the detarring agent, resulting in you needing multiple applications and wasting product.

The odd time I have come across cars with tar spots up on the pillars, but it's rare enough, so as a matter of course I would spray from the shoulder line down, paying particular attention to the bottom 12" all the way round.Again at this stage some people will wipe the sprayed areas with a microfibre cloth - but on heavily decontaminated vehicles I have managed to de-tar without any contact by simply spraying enough product to let the tar run down and drip off (this won't be an issue for you though).Just make sure your detarring agent is well rinsed off, and again, there is no need to towel dry at this point.

On claying, I would recommend claying the whole car from the roof down.After this step, you can go straight to a TBM shampoo wash.Once rinsed, now you can get to use your drying towels!

You shouldn't really need a polish with such a fresh car, unless it's covered in swirl marks - and hand polishing isn't going to sort that out anyway - at best it would temporarily hide them.

Btw, what colour is your car - this may be what decides what LSP you use, whether a wax or a sealant?
You don't need to tape off trim when applying a LSP, just take care with your applicator, and even if you do manage to get some on the black trim, there are loads of ways to clean it off.


As regards weekly maintenance, I snowfoam with a pH neutral SF, then TBM shampoo, rinse and towel dry.

I think the water hardness is only an issue if you let the car drip dry - you can get limescaley type deposits left behind - this wont be an issue for you as you are going to towel dry.

If I've missed any other points you raised, some of the other lads will be along to take up the slack!

Jambo

@RandyHickey,

Thanks for the great reply your have give some great pointers there-

To answer you question re Car Colour its metallic "Race Blue"

Do you think I need fallout remover ? and would this be applied all over or were I feel the paintwork may be rough ?

Hopefully I can get stocked up for a long day Sat , otherwise Ill have to put this off few weeks until I have a good window to get working on the car

randy hickey

TBH I'd say you could get away without fallout remover - but if you want to go ahead and get some, it won't do any harm.

As regards stocking up on products/gear, Curran who puts in a fair bit of time here owns Detailing Shed in Dublin, or alternatively Larry owns Cleancar.ie closer to you in New Ross.

Curran

Jambo; PM en-route with a quick guide of how I go about things!

Randy; good job...think you've cleared up most things with that excellent follow up post!

Without covering what Randy has said, I'll just pick out where I see where improvements could be made in your process Jambo! This would only be for preparing the car....your weekly wash, I'll cover at the end.


Step 1: Snowfoam first, rinse, clean wheels, rinse, wash the car with a two bucket method, rinse - no need to dry. Some people like to cover the car in an All Purpose Cleaner to help strip some of the old wax/sealant; use the lance or some apply it via pump sprayer, anyways what Im saying is, that it doesnt have to be pH neutral or wax / sealant safe, at this point!

Step 2: a) Tar: you should be able to see the little black speckles. If you cant, then Id skip it, the fall out remover actually can soft any small spots, and the clay will get the rest. If you feels a gritty surface by lightly rubbing your fingers over the lower half, then I would de-tar. Ideally dry, as Randy said, but doesnt have to be bone dry....drip dry for a few minutes is enough.

b) Fall Out: I'd certainly do it - 20k km is plenty of time to gather contamination, plus anytime the car could have been sitting waiting for delivery in a yard at a dock or where ever and who knows what could have been done near-by (welding for example would have the car destroyed) - the whole car can be covered. This step makes claying a whole lot safer, quicker and easier.

c) Clay - all painted surfaces

Step 3 - Wash the car down, the clay will have drawn out lots of embedded contamination and you'll see it on the paintwork; this needs to be washed off. You could snowfoam and wash it with a mitt and a rinse bucket if you wished, or the regular 2BM after a snowfoam and rinse would be good too. Now it's time to get the drying towel wet - the surface is perfectly clean, and prep'd for your next step...either polish, then wax or sealant; or straight to wax or sealant....for to confuse you more, there is the option of a step like a glaze if you so wish....but basically, at this point, your paint is prep'd - what you do after is a matter of preference and depending on the condition of the paintwork.

Step 4 - Polishing; if you think it needs it - probably doesnt if it's been cared for well - one thing to remember is, that if they did indeed use a wax on the car pre-collection, it might be masking some defects, which will become obvious when you strip everything back during your prep - but also, when you re-wax or re-seal, then you'll re-mask it. If it looks good now - then it'll look good when finished!

Step 5 - Protection - Wax or Sealant! No need for tape - thats more for machine polishing where you want to prevent damage for delicate surfaces.

Step 6 - Stand back, deep breath; as its been more work than you first thought, but enjoyable when you see how well the car looks - grab a beer and the camera and show us all how well you've done!


How long should I allow for the above ? For the all procees above? The whole day! You will get quicker at it, and its only once every few months that it needs to be done.

Do I need to prep and protect the alloys separate from the bodywork ? likewise with the exterior trim (most of which is body coloured or gloss)
Alloys are pretty much the same - wash them, de-tar, rinse, fallout remover, rinse, light wash, dry and protect. You could clay them also, after the fallout remover, rinse steps. Any body coloured and gloss trim, your wax/sealant can be applied on them to protect them.

Also the water in my area is hard ? how can I best deal with this ? Just make sure to dry the car well after your washes, to ensure no water spotting - no issues otherwise

Weekly Maintenance - what is the best practice ? just a light shampoo ? or do I need snow foam and if so will that damage/stip my wax ?

Regular wash should be easy - the car is protected, so less dirt bonds, and its a smooth surface so easy to wash. You want to have a pH neutral snowfoam and shampoo so not to strip the wax/sealant.
Snowfoam, rinse, wheels, rinse, wash with 2BM, rinse, towel dry - simple!

Hope this clears up a few things for you - any questions; fire ahead....no question too silly either!

Jambo

Thanks All - now just to get the gear and get the car done !

Theboinkmaster

Really stupid question - do you put the de-tarring or de-ironning on the windows?!

Ded_Zebra

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Really stupid question - do you put the de-tarring or de-ironning on the windows?!

Definitely not the tar remover. You only need to put it where you can see tar spots.

I wouldn't use Iron cleanse (or other fallout removers) on the windows but I do clay them

Curran

You can get tar deposits on your windows, but you wont damage the window by applying to a microfibre cloth and wiping clean. Certain tar removers can be quite aggressive on window trims so localised removal is a better option.

Fall out removers shouldnt have too much of an adverse effect on trims so no harm applying it liberally....though there mightnt be too much contamination to remove.