Swing Thoughts or Lack There Of!!

kiers47

So a lot of threads here over the last few months have sparked my interest.

In relation to swing thoughts. I just dont have any. Is it wrong? Should i have swing thoughts. Mostly i just set up to the shot which is what most of my thought goes into.

But i just don't have any thoughts about my swing before or while i'm swinging. My only thought is to hit the ball.

I've been playing 3/4 years and play to a comfortable 15(Have never had a lesson) with decent improvement each year and i'm hoping for more improvement again this year maybe 11/12.

Anyway i'm just wondering should i be worried more about my swing as its happening or should i leave it be until i plateau??

ForeRight

I can only answer for myself and all I think about when swinging the club is trying not to burst the ball. Try to get a smooth tempo and transition into my down swing that's all.

PARlance

Have been... ahem... thinking about this for the last few weeks.

I've been a disaster for this.
In all aspects, not just when it's my turn to hit. From mid week thoughts, to range thoughts, to the course, to everywhere.

Since I got my HC this time last year I've went into overdrive... Trying to figure out/find the "swing" that'll get me low.
I've consciously went about it in a way that some may seem odd. Scoring, while it matters really plays second fiddle to my fiddling around with the swing.

Now, it's not all bad, I think I've a fair understanding of what I need to do now and what suits me but for gods sake I need to stop the hours and hours spent at the range messing around with things at the range...
Nothing drastic, but each visit sees me "working" on something a little different, it might be trying to bow my wrist, my left arm position the next, weight forward the next etc etc.... An endless list of little things that followed no rhyme nor reason and that stem from a bit of ADD/OCD/OTT/ACDC... You name it

All this tinkering around can and has lead to me genuinely clueless when stepping up to hit. Dr Bob talks about trusting the swing, I don't know which one to trust

So, I really need to adopt the less is more attitude from now on. I've been fooling myself calling it practice, I haven't been "practicing", I've been constantly "changing".

Case and point is that I discovered yesterday that I can no longer fade my driver... I went from a slice a year ago to having a pretty decent, long, controlled fade.
There was no absolutely no need to change it, but 2 months ago I went into "mission draw the ball".
Now I can't seem to go back to fading it and while there are signs of a nice draw coming, I still am not confident with it.

So Kiers, yes I do have thoughts, bad ones, clueless ones, ones I don't want.
I've come close to level par back 9's on quite a few occasions but this is after I've over thought things on the front and then just give up on thinking on the back.

I know I'll need to change things along the way, but changing 10 different things a month is crazy.... Jez, I really should change my name to PaddyLance.

From now on it needs to be

See ball.
See target.
See shot.
Hit.

And I need my practice to be practice. That should give me the confidence to do that.

Kiers, I don't think you need to be thinking more than you should, if it comes to the stage where you know you need to change something then change it over the winter and hit the ground running the following year.

I'm off to put on a stone and get a brain scan.

BigChap1759

IMO the fewer swing thoughts you can have the better - thinking about your swing whilst swinging is the surest way to swing badly. It's a natural action and you need to let your brain control it as much as possible.

ForeRight

Exactly.
During a round just swing with what muscle memory you have given yourself from practicing with swing thoughts.

During a proper round I would never think about too much or try a do something different. If you're playing bad just forget it, enjoy the good shots and hope to play better the next day.

Over thinking is a sure way to bust your head.

kiers47

Cheers for the feedback. I do some tinkering on the range in fairness but it is mainly to do with posture, stance and grip. I never think about what position my swing is in or should be in.
Im not sure if thats good or bad or i need to work on it. I just wonder when i see these threads where lads are on about where there hands are, at a certain point etc.. and maybe im not giving myself the best chance to go lower.

BigChap1759

Range is absolutely the time to get more technical in terms of positions, thoughts etc and then try to engrain them during practice.

SEORG

I try to keep it to one when standing over the ball, 'Finish your swing'....

...if I could only figure out how to keep it to one

John Divney

Definitely when I know my lower body is not getting over or my right elbow is detaching early on the downswing, I use exaggerated swing thoughts.

I know my swing tendencies and have to fight them, when a poor swing happens I can fix it or at least try on course.

I don't really get why people want an empty head to let a poor swing happen all round, rather than being pro active.

If you can visualise your swing as a fluid image you sort of have all the swing feels in one instant.

If your brain don't know exactly what you are trying to do, how can your body do it with consistency.

GreeBo

I do most of my thinking in the setup phase (about 5s) other than that I try to tell myself to keep watching the ball as I have a terrible habit of coming out of the swing

BigChap1759

My last lesson gave me the thought of making sure I keep the handle ahead of the clubhead at impact - has been really working for me.

dan_ep82

Cut down my swing thoughts into stages and dropped a few lately and I'm sure I'm improving.

I get my aim from behind the ball (mentally drawing a line through it), then the grip.

Stand up next to the ball. Take a practice swing with focus on following through.

Then do the exact same except this time with a ball.

It doesn't always work but enough for the time being until I can naturally follow through. When I don't everything leaks off right.

I'd love to have no swing thoughts but I'm still happy where I am at the minute.

alxmorgan

kiers47 wrote: »

So a lot of threads here over the last few months have sparked my interest.

In relation to swing thoughts. I just dont have any. Is it wrong? Should i have swing thoughts. Mostly i just set up to the shot which is what most of my thought goes into.

But i just don't have any thoughts about my swing before or while i'm swinging. My only thought is to hit the ball.

I've been playing 3/4 years and play to a comfortable 15(Have never had a lesson) with decent improvement each year and i'm hoping for more improvement again this year maybe 11/12.

Anyway i'm just wondering should i be worried more about my swing as its happening or should i leave it be until i plateau??

Leave it I reckon. Sounds like you are a feel player. No point getting technical if you don't need to. In fact you may never need to even if you plateau, In that case a good pro should focus you on some feels that will adjust the way you play.

If your brain don't know exactly what you are trying to do, how can your body do it with consistency.

This is where target focus should come in and ideally be the only thought, Your body doesn't need to know what to do to get it there, only that it needs to do it.

When playing guitar for example your body knows target (e.g. G,C,D with a given strumming pattern) but not thinking about each finger. It's muscle memory. Easier said than done

Wftablueboy

I asked the same question to a very well known and highly successful professional golfer one night ... He's answer was very simple , he punched me in my right hip and said " get that out of the way " . It took me a while to figure out what he meant but when it worked it was hard to believe how far and straight the ball was going. It worked really well for about 9 months untill one day I tried to hit it an extra 10% , lost my tempo and rhythm and I've struggled to find it in the last year . Defnatily if you can clear your mind of any other thoughts and concentrate on getting your hip out of the way you'll see improvement ....

alxmorgan

Wftablueboy wrote: »

I asked the same question to a very well known and highly successful professional golfer one night ... He's answer was very simple , he punched me in my right hip and said " get that out of the way " . It took me a while to figure out what he meant but when it worked it was hard to believe how far and straight the ball was going. It worked really well for about 9 months untill one day I tried to hit it an extra 10% , lost my tempo and rhythm and I've struggled to find it in the last year . Defnatily if you can clear your mind of any other thoughts and concentrate on getting your hip out of the way you'll see improvement ....

Are you left handed or right handed ?

Wftablueboy

alxmorgan wrote: »

Are you left handed or right handed ?

Sorry should have said , right handed

PARlance

Wftablueboy wrote: »

Sorry should have said , right handed

Surely he punched the left hip so?
How do you get the right hip out of the way if you're right handed?? The missus is giving me strange looks here

Wftablueboy

alxmorgan wrote: »

Are you left handed or right handed ?

PARlance wrote: »

Surely he punched the left hip so?
How do you get the right hip out of the way if you're right handed?? The missus is giving me strange looks here

No , right handed and right hip , like I said it took me a while to understand what he meant , but take it to the range and try and get your right hip out of the way before your hands pass you hips on your downswing .....

spacecoyote

alxmorgan wrote: »

Leave it I reckon. Sounds like you are a feel player. No point getting technical if you don't need to. In fact you may never need to even if you plateau, In that case a good pro should focus you on some feels that will adjust the way you play.



This is where target focus should come in and ideally be the only thought, Your body doesn't need to know what to do to get it there, only that it needs to do it.

When playing guitar for example your body knows target (e.g. G,C,D with a given strumming pattern) but not thinking about each finger. It's muscle memory. Easier said than done

Karl Morris uses a similar kind of analogy with brushing your teeth. Basically to brush your teeth you just do the motion, you're not thinking raise arm, bend elbow, etc... So thinking about what different parts of your body are doing while swinging is just as crippling an idea.

I do know that some people need very detailed technical thoughts to understand what they are doing with their body whilst swinging. I just get boggled when I try to do that.

Only thing I've been thinking of recently is on the back swing...Right knee back, left knee forward. Helps me get in a better position to get inside on the way down. Have been hitting draws a lot more easily lately doing that.

I try to only think about it if I manage to get to the range & avoid it when on the course (easier said than done though)

John Divney

spacecoyote wrote: »

Karl Morris uses a similar kind of analogy with brushing your teeth. Basically to brush your teeth you just do the motion, you're not thinking raise arm, bend elbow, etc... So thinking about what different parts of your body are doing while swinging is just as crippling an idea.

I do know that some people need very detailed technical thoughts to understand what they are doing with their body whilst swinging. I just get boggled when I try to do that.

Only thing I've been thinking of recently is on the back swing...Right knee back, left knee forward. Helps me get in a better position to get inside on the way down. Have been hitting draws a lot more easily lately doing that.

I try to only think about it if I manage to get to the range & avoid it when on the course (easier said than done though)

I agree to an extent, the idea of static mechanical thought is not helpful, the positions come as a result of dynamic movement, ie you hit the positions as a reaction, not force yourself into them artificially.

But to get into a good delivery position, the hips need to go left, while the upper body and head stay back, some people bump and turn, others rotate hips and the lateral movement together.

This is the most difficult thing to do in golf and most of us amateurs will Never master it, but fight it

It takes such discipline and work that you can only get there by obsessive and conscious work, everyone has to find a feeling in their transition to do it,

You cannot just swing freely all the time, when your are on it it's great, then you neglect it and boom, you regress.

I'm lazy on the course and like everyone just want to play, but you will never play consistent golf unless you can transition well, but it is so unnatural for most of us, even them good amateurs who play well without text book swings, that not keeping an eye over it and the body will go back to doing what it wants.

stockdam

Most of my swing thoughts are about the setup. When I actually do swing then maybe I'll use one swing thought which is usually about tempo or getting through the ball.

GreeBo

Wftablueboy wrote: »

No , right handed and right hip , like I said it took me a while to understand what he meant , but take it to the range and try and get your right hip out of the way before your hands pass you hips on your downswing .....

Out of the way where?!
I get my left hip out of my way and finish left, if I move my right hip before my hands pass it...is that not moving it into my way?

FixdePitchmark

What John said above is me.
Basically was going nowhere with golf off 12-15 . Till pros told me that my transition was all driven from upper body.

I'm trying . But nearly impossible to change if you have been doing it wrong for years. I've made progress. But it is just down to better and safer club choice. The odd better day around the greens. I'm not sure I'm ever going to get this transition ever right. It basically ruins all my timing and any natural feeling of a swing.
My lowest moment was when a pro had me pulling a bungee chord with my left hip to teach it to pull open. (Lol).

you do often think. Am I better off working with my wrong action allow my timing and hands to do work.

See if a golfers swing is wrong. I'm beginning to think you have to play with swing thoughts to swing correctly. For me this became a distraction and a destructive factor.
Yet a pro would tell me I'm technical a better golfer.

what is the point in being technically a better golfer but confused and fearful of your swing.
I'm obviously someone who has gone full circle from just swing and hit the bloody thing, to 6-7 swing thoughts.

Reading Rotella has made me see the errors of my ways. But to be honest ForeRight has it spot on , on here.

The only thing on this . I'm not sure you can be so black and white on this. What works for some is not going to work for all.

whizbang

I think i need about 15 thoughts for a good swing..
but, my head is only good for about 10 at a time.

have about 5 of them in the setup, but I know that the better I get, its because i get more and more of those thoughts down in the setup phase, so the actual swing has less and less thinking.

scrubber72

My driving has gone to the dogs but i think i know the problem. My swing thought is usually nice and smooth takeaway.........feckinburstit.

Rikand

GreeBo wrote: »

I do most of my thinking in the setup phase (about 5s) other than that I try to tell myself to keep watching the ball as I have a terrible habit of coming out of the swing

my only thought aswell, keep the feckin head down

galwaylad14

I tried for a while to clear my head completely of swing thoughts when I'm playing but it just didn't work really so now I try to keep it to some simple swing thought. I used to have a bit of a tendency when I was younger to sort of rise up a bit on the backswing and dip a lot to hit the ball, this obviously required very good timing to pull off consistently. So I had previously with a pro on maintaining my height through the swing and now I find it a good swing thought, to just think of my posture staying constant through the swing, obviously I still dip a bit to hit the ball as everyone does really but it's less exaggerated that it used to be.

To be honest I'm not sure if this swing thought actually works or is it just that I find it a fairly simple thought and so by focusing on something simple it stops me focusing on a complex swing thought that could ruin the shot.

I'd be very mechanical in getting my grip, posture and alignment right for each shot but to me that's only beneficial as all of these things are done before the swing starts so they're gone out of my head when I go to hit the ball and if anything they should mentally help me when it comes to hitting the ball as I know I've done all I can to get myself in the best position to make a good swing.