Issues with Father

LegacyUser

Hi,

I don't really know where to start with this. But, essentially I've just had another row with my father (or to be more truthful him shouting at me for being useless).

I forgot to do something - totally slipped my mind. Although, I do have a habit of procastinating and leaving things off, to be fair.

However, this was another big row. It has got me angry and frustrated. All my life I was always (in my memory) ridiculed and made out to be useless and feel worthless. I do believe all these tongue lashings have had a negative effect on me as I have no confidence and drive.

At my age - mid 30's I should be totally independent and living my own life, but I can't seem to kick the crutch of home away. I have a few friends, but they are now heading down different paths in their life. My fathers regular rebuking of me has had a negative impact on my psyche. I am attending counselling for my problems and despite progress being extremely slow I am refusing to give up on it. My next batch of sessions have been put out for about 6 months due to staff training, so I'm now on my own.

I just feel so worthless and that I've let him ruin my life with his temper. I know I'm not 100% innocent in these matters as at times I've delayed doing things either accident or design. His personality just clashes with me - he is a total dominant and reminds me a bit of Bull McCabe in The Field and myself as Tadhg. I can't respect him, therefore I somehow don't allow myself to do what he wants, as he rubs me up the wrong way.

At this stage in my life, I'm wishing I had moved away further from home and totally cut the apron strings. However, I've got a job that I like (plus I'm too scared of failing in a new environment to move) and I like to be near my mother.

Does everyone else still have issues with their parent well into their adult life? I thought this sort of stuff would end in my teens.

ABajaninCork

This sort of stuff should end now TBH. Why can't you get a house share close to home if you don't like to leave your mother? You don't have to leave your job, but you should leave home....

Your father's probably frustrated with you still at home and dependent. You react by displaying passive aggressive behaviour. You're working - you should be looking to move out. It's time.

Do you have siblings?

LegacyUser

Hi, thanks for the reply. I don't live at home - I live in a house share near work, but I do return some/most weekends to helpthem with the family business. Brother lives at home and work in the business.

PucaMama

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

Hi,

I don't really know where to start with this. But, essentially I've just had another row with my father (or to be more truthful him shouting at me for being useless).

I forgot to do something - totally slipped my mind. Although, I do have a habit of procastinating and leaving things off, to be fair.

However, this was another big row. It has got me angry and frustrated. All my life I was always (in my memory) ridiculed and made out to be useless and feel worthless. I do believe all these tongue lashings have had a negative effect on me as I have no confidence and drive.

At my age - mid 30's I should be totally independent and living my own life, but I can't seem to kick the crutch of home away. I have a few friends, but they are now heading down different paths in their life. My fathers regular rebuking of me has had a negative impact on my psyche. I am attending counselling for my problems and despite progress being extremely slow I am refusing to give up on it. My next batch of sessions have been put out for about 6 months due to staff training, so I'm now on my own.

I just feel so worthless and that I've let him ruin my life with his temper. I know I'm not 100% innocent in these matters as at times I've delayed doing things either accident or design. His personality just clashes with me - he is a total dominant and reminds me a bit of Bull McCabe in The Field and myself as Tadhg. I can't respect him, therefore I somehow don't allow myself to do what he wants, as he rubs me up the wrong way.

At this stage in my life, I'm wishing I had moved away further from home and totally cut the apron strings. However, I've got a job that I like (plus I'm too scared of failing in a new environment to move) and I like to be near my mother.

Does everyone else still have issues with their parent well into their adult life? I thought this sort of stuff would end in my teens.

in my experience, the best thing you can do is get away from him. distance yourself mentally too. this man will drag you down. and remember its not your fault hes like this.

whirlpool

You didn't get the support and the type of love you needed growing up in order to be a confident adult. You just weren't given it. And you need to be given it from your carers. It doesn't just magically appear out of thin air. So, you didn't get it from your parents, which ideally is where it would come from. But just because you weren't given the ability to see your worth, your value and your potential doesn't mean that those things aren't there. You are worthy, you are valuable and you have potential. Your father may have his own issues and mental demons that he is dealing with, perhaps has always been dealing with, and perhaps he didn't get the support he needed either, and that's why he acts the way he does. But focus on yourself now. Bring your worth, your value and your potential into focus now, go out into the world and thrive and enjoy. Besides the wonderful things it will do for you yourself, it may also give you a more solid base on which to build better relationships with your parents going forward.

Taltos

OP you can't control how he reacts to you but you can control the following

1. How you react - use the counselling to learn new skills.
2. Where you spend your weekends. Think about it - where is your down time from work? When do you get a chance to socialise and meet new friends. I think it is great you are choosing to give up on your personal time each weekend but the cost is too high. Being in your mid 30s you are running the risk of spending years more doing this and then what? Do you really want to turn around in your mid 40s or 50s and wonder where all the opportunities to mix or do things you wanted went?
3. The stories you tell yourself - have a read of Crucial Conversations. Again similar to 1 it is all about how you react to what is being thrown at you. Taking the time to step back and instead of immediately thinking "he is so frustrated with me" you change it to "it's not me he's yelling at he's just expressing his own frustration" or something similar.

Either way, while I know you enjoy spending time with your mother it does sound like you have a bit of a toxic relationship with your father and it's well past time you made the call to back away to at least have a chance of a happy life.

Emme

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply. I don't live at home - I live in a house share near work, but I do return some/most weekends to helpthem with the family business. Brother lives at home and work in the business.

How far away do you live from your parents? Perhaps you should stop thinking of it as "home" if your father gives you such a hard time.

Don't return there as often. Once a month is plenty.

I got the same treatment from my father and even though I am in my 40s with my own home he still tries it on sometimes. It is very hard to deal with but distancing yourself is all you can do.

When I was in my 30s I decided to study for a degree by night while working full time (my father had never wanted me to move or work away from the family home, let alone go to college). At the time I was living away from the family home but like you went back there most weekends to help out. The degree meant I couldn't do this as much. Before my first year exams he got my mother to call me and tell me not to come home again unless I gave up the course and didn't do my exams. Of course I did my exams and stayed away from him for a blissful 5 weeks. The day after my exams finished I got a call from my mother telling me to go home the next weekend.

A few years later I had a huge row with him in November and I didn't go back there for 8 weeks. I spent Christmas in Dublin and volunteered at the RDS serving Christmas dinners to the homeless. It was one of my best Christmas days ever and I learnt something that day - abuse will not be tolerated. Every Christmas my father would start a row over dinner and upset the whole family. His behavior would not have been tolerated in the RDS - he would have been turfed out. I learnt that my father's behavior was not normal.

In hindsight I stuck around a bit too much to protect my mother. It was up to her to make her own choices and she chose to stick with my father's abuse and to allow him upset the family. She never stuck up for us, just told us to put up with it.

I still have huge self-esteem issues over the verbal abuse from my father. I think it is one of the main contributing factors to my being single today.

OP, stay away from your family home at weekends, only go there once a month maximum. If your input to the family business is missed perhaps your father will have to pay somebody to do your work and he will have to treat them properly as employees have rights.

Get a book called "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

username123

Emme wrote: »

It was one of my best Christmas days ever and I learnt something that day - abuse will not be tolerated. Every Christmas my father would start a row over dinner and upset the whole family. His behavior would not have been tolerated in the RDS - he would have been turfed out. I learnt that my father's behavior was not normal.

Great post Emme and I wholeheartedly agree with the above - I learned similar in my own life, that my fathers behaviour was not normal.

OP - stop going home at weekends and helping out with the family business. Why would you - your efforts are clearly not appreciated?

Your father only has the power over you that you give him. Disregard his opinions, do whatever you wish to do. Distance yourself emotionally. Dont give him opportunities to ask you to do things or simply say no.

Unfortunately your relationship with your mother might suffer. When you distance yourself she may choose to have a separate relationship with you or she may not. But to be honest, if she has let your father call you worthless all your life then you should probably be distancing yourself from her too.

Diane Selwyn

I don't think it's especially unusual for fathers and sons to have slightly strained relationships - my own father had a weirdly competitive relationship with his oldest son - always pushing him to do better and that caused unnecessary tension in the family and put a strain on my brother for a long time but they have kind of called a truce now probably since my brother reached his mid twenties. My other (younger) brothers didn't seem to have the same issues with our father but, stupidly, our father has admitted that he had the same issues with his own father and that it caused them not to speak for years!

All that said I hope that my brother was never made to feel useless or worthless - that sounds like another level of difficulty altogether - you sound like you are starting to come to terms with the fact that your father's behaviour is at the very least unfair on you. Its a tricky situation but no one that is making you feel worthless is owed anything by you. It's really crazy how everyone takes it for granted that their family life and upbringing was 'normal' until they actually question it!

LegacyUser

Back again...

He has been going nuts recently over minor things and it is affecting my life in that I'm worried for my mother and brother.

My brother is an adult but due to the way he brouhgt us up we had no space to develop and need to stand on ou own two feet.

He flips over minor things - flips big time. In my mid 30's I should be able to stand up to this, but I dare not in case it makes things worse for everyone else especially my mother.

There is no physical abuse (there was once towards my mum) but the mental abuse is just as tough. I really don't want my mums last years of her life to be living with this ticking time bomb.

I think he has some type of mental problem (or chemical imbalance) as he just loses it for a mnor reason and sometimes huffs for a days or so, oth times it is then as if nothing happens.

I love my mother and brother and enjoy going home to thier company but home life is so strained because of him.

Other than praying for him to die what is there to do?

Emme

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

Back again...

He has been going nuts recently over minor things and it is affecting my life in that I'm worried for my mother and brother.

My brother is an adult but due to the way he brouhgt us up we had no space to develop and need to stand on ou own two feet.

He flips over minor things - flips big time. In my mid 30's I should be able to stand up to this, but I dare not in case it makes things worse for everyone else especially my mother.

There is no physical abuse (there was once towards my mum) but the mental abuse is just as tough. I really don't want my mums last years of her life to be living with this ticking time bomb.

I think he has some type of mental problem (or chemical imbalance) as he just loses it for a mnor reason and sometimes huffs for a days or so, oth times it is then as if nothing happens.

I love my mother and brother and enjoy going home to thier company but home life is so strained because of him.

Other than praying for him to die what is there to do?

This sounds harsh but I am speaking from bitter experience. You can only look after yourself. Your mother and brother are adult and can make their own decisions.

My advice to you again is to distance yourself from the whole situation. Your father probably knows how you feel and is using this to manipulate you.

Emotional abuse can be every bit as damaging as physical abuse.

Stay away from the homeplace for at least a month. You can only look after yourself. Let the others look out for themselves. This is advice coming from someone who lost years trying to help people in a toxic family environment similar to yours. It took me years to realize that these people would prefer to stay in a bad situation and see other family members suffer than get out and help themselves.

By getting out and helping yourself you are setting a positive example to the others. Even though you may not be physically present you are showing them that it can be done.

So do it.

tenifan

Hi "tadhg". You sound exactly like me! I still have issues with my dad and his behaviour, but I broke the cycle about 2 years ago and haven't looked back. So hopefully I can give you some advice.

You can't change your dad's behaviour, and your mother isn't as much a victim as you might think she is.

I'll go through your post.

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

He has been going nuts recently over minor things and it is affecting my life in that I'm worried for my mother and brother.

My brother is an adult but due to the way he brouhgt us up we had no space to develop and need to stand on ou own two feet.

Your dad isn't a happy person. I'm betting he is a perfectionist, but doesn't have enough patience or interests to use his energy in a positive way.. so instead he tries to make his family his pride.

But, it must be hard for him. Because you are ungrateful. You disrespect him by forgetting simple things. You don't listen to him... now all well and good if your slight against him is something big.. but if it's something minor, well he might have to stew a bit more, and drag a few instances from the past up, but he'll bubble over regardless.

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

He flips over minor things - flips big time. In my mid 30's I should be able to stand up to this, but I dare not in case it makes things worse for everyone else especially my mother.

"especially my mother.." ahh, sorry to tell you but your mother knows what's going on.

In a lot of ways your mother is as emotionally immature as your dad.. you say your dad never allowed your brother to develop "due to the way he brouhgt us up", but what about the way your mother brought him up? Does she still treat him like a child with him tucked under her wing, or has she pushed him out of the nest so he can learn to fly? (sorry about the bird metaphors)

Your dad's a bully, and your mam pays lip service to the idea that she's protecting your brother but she just wants her happy family at any cost.

But she also "knows" your dad is a good man deep down, that he had a hard life, that he worked hard for his family, that he's doing his best, that his relationship with his dad was bad, that he doesn't know any better... there might be some truth in all this, but your mam isn't acting as a broker to any solution. She giving herself reasons to preserve the status quo. It's easier for her. So your brother is the path of least resistance for your dad.. it might upset your mam, but she can give him a wee cuddle and tell him everything will be ok (just like she used to do when he was a child)..

She's not going to pack her bags. She's not going to want to see a bust up. Your mam and your dad long ago struck a balance.

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

I think he has some type of mental problem (or chemical imbalance) as he just loses it for a mnor reason and sometimes huffs for a days or so, oth times it is then as if nothing happens.

I doubt it's a chemical imbalance. Your dad just whips himself into a frenzy by being so unhappy for no reason.

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

I love my mother and brother and enjoy going home to thier company but home life is so strained because of him.

Yep, home life. That happy family environment that rarely exists! You know, your dad probably thinks he's being excluded from it when you get together like that, even though he has no real interest in sitting among you when you get together. It's just a toxic relationship modelled on something that just about worked when you were kids.

TadhgMcCabe wrote: »

Other than praying for him to die what is there to do?

Well, praying for him to die is hardly very constructive.

For me, things turned a corner pretty quick.

My mother used to phone me the whole time when I moved out of home, even though I was trying to start my own life (around age 24). She kept dragging me back in to the fold, and trying to get me to include my dad in every decision I made (for fear he'd find out elsewhere and feel I was excluding him).. this had the effect that I was always on edge every time I wanted to do something new, because it was like I had to clear it with my dad. I'm not going to get into how abusive he was, or how much he mistreated me, but I had reasons for wanting to make a distance, and my misguided mam always made things worse.

Fast forward a few years, and my poor granny passed away, shortly after my sister had a baby. My mam doesn't treat me like such an emotional crutch any more, and she busies herself helping my sister so I don't feel so crowded out by her...

I started going to the gym quite a bit and am usually quite busy. I wouldn't have the time to lounge around my mother's house for hours on end, as if I'd just come in from school and had to listen to my dad complaining that I hadn't started my homework.
I see my mam 3 times a week now, for an hour each time. A coffee during the week (not out at the home house), a family dinner on Sunday, and an evening meal during the week. She looks forward to seeing me. My dad actually looks forward to seeing me! We can talk about our week without time to drag up sh*t from the past.

Trust me, it's time to cut the apron strings. No one is protecting anyone in your current relationship. Your mam isn't protecting you, you aren't protecting your mam. Your dad isn't looking out for your best interests.

If you really want to help your brother, get him to move out of home and get him a few healthy interests. As I said, the gym helped me a lot in terms of something to do and giving me a bit of pride in myself. So maybe consider some classes (kettlebells, kickboxing, circuit training, etc). It might get him out of his shell a bit, and the two of you could have fun together instead of moping around your dad's house putting your dad in a bad mood.

Try to limit the amount of time your spend with your parents to no more than an hour at a time, twice a week for a few weeks to see if you see any improvement.

Long post.. hopefully some of it's helpful or relevant to you!

Emme

tenifan wrote: »

Hi "tadhg". You sound exactly like me! I still have issues with my dad and his behaviour, but I broke the cycle about 2 years ago and haven't looked back. So hopefully I can give you some advice.

You can't change your dad's behaviour, and your mother isn't as much a victim as you might think she is.

I'll go through your post.



Your dad isn't a happy person. I'm betting he is a perfectionist, but doesn't have enough patience or interests to use his energy in a positive way.. so instead he tries to make his family his pride.

But, it must be hard for him. Because you are ungrateful. You disrespect him by forgetting simple things. You don't listen to him... now all well and good if your slight against him is something big.. but if it's something minor, well he might have to stew a bit more, and drag a few instances from the past up, but he'll bubble over regardless.



"especially my mother.." ahh, sorry to tell you but your mother knows what's going on.

In a lot of ways your mother is as emotionally immature as your dad.. you say your dad never allowed your brother to develop "due to the way he brouhgt us up", but what about the way your mother brought him up? Does she still treat him like a child with him tucked under her wing, or has she pushed him out of the nest so he can learn to fly? (sorry about the bird metaphors)

Your dad's a bully, and your mam pays lip service to the idea that she's protecting your brother but she just wants her happy family at any cost.

But she also "knows" your dad is a good man deep down, that he had a hard life, that he worked hard for his family, that he's doing his best, that his relationship with his dad was bad, that he doesn't know any better... there might be some truth in all this, but your mam isn't acting as a broker to any solution. She giving herself reasons to preserve the status quo. It's easier for her. So your brother is the path of least resistance for your dad.. it might upset your mam, but she can give him a wee cuddle and tell him everything will be ok (just like she used to do when he was a child)..

She's not going to pack her bags. She's not going to want to see a bust up. Your mam and your dad long ago struck a balance.



I doubt it's a chemical imbalance. Your dad just whips himself into a frenzy by being so unhappy for no reason.



Yep, home life. That happy family environment that rarely exists! You know, your dad probably thinks he's being excluded from it when you get together like that, even though he has no real interest in sitting among you when you get together. It's just a toxic relationship modelled on something that just about worked when you were kids.


Well, praying for him to die is hardly very constructive.

For me, things turned a corner pretty quick.

My mother used to phone me the whole time when I moved out of home, even though I was trying to start my own life (around age 24). She kept dragging me back in to the fold, and trying to get me to include my dad in every decision I made (for fear he'd find out elsewhere and feel I was excluding him).. this had the effect that I was always on edge every time I wanted to do something new, because it was like I had to clear it with my dad. I'm not going to get into how abusive he was, or how much he mistreated me, but I had reasons for wanting to make a distance, and my misguided mam always made things worse.

Fast forward a few years, and my poor granny passed away, shortly after my sister had a baby. My mam doesn't treat me like such an emotional crutch any more, and she busies herself helping my sister so I don't feel so crowded out by her...

I started going to the gym quite a bit and am usually quite busy. I wouldn't have the time to lounge around my mother's house for hours on end, as if I'd just come in from school and had to listen to my dad complaining that I hadn't started my homework.
I see my mam 3 times a week now, for an hour each time. A coffee during the week (not out at the home house), a family dinner on Sunday, and an evening meal during the week. She looks forward to seeing me. My dad actually looks forward to seeing me! We can talk about our week without time to drag up sh*t from the past.

Trust me, it's time to cut the apron strings. No one is protecting anyone in your current relationship. Your mam isn't protecting you, you aren't protecting your mam. Your dad isn't looking out for your best interests.

If you really want to help your brother, get him to move out of home and get him a few healthy interests. As I said, the gym helped me a lot in terms of something to do and giving me a bit of pride in myself. So maybe consider some classes (kettlebells, kickboxing, circuit training, etc). It might get him out of his shell a bit, and the two of you could have fun together instead of moping around your dad's house putting your dad in a bad mood.

Try to limit the amount of time your spend with your parents to no more than an hour at a time, twice a week for a few weeks to see if you see any improvement.

Long post.. hopefully some of it's helpful or relevant to you!

This is fantastic advice and the situation described above is very similar to my home situation. I wouldn't have survived it except for a long standing passion for fitness which stopped me turning to drink or worse. Many's the time I came back from a horrific family weekend, put on my trainers and ran 10K without stopping. Or else I might cycle to the coast and back (20K in all).

I agree that the OP's mother isn't as blameless as she appears to be. She is taking a passive role in this - she has allowed her husband to treat her children badly and isn't protecting them.

I think the best way for the OP to cope is to stay away from the family home for a long stretch and the advice to take up a sport or fitness related interest is excellent.

tenifan

Emme wrote: »

This is fantastic advice and the situation described above is very similar to my home situation. I wouldn't have survived it except for a long standing passion for fitness which stopped me turning to drink or worse. Many's the time I came back from a horrific family weekend, put on my trainers and ran 10K without stopping. Or else I might cycle to the coast and back (20K in all).

Thanks Emme I was afraid I was just projecting my own situation on to the op.
Yea, cycling's great too, definitely a lot more fun with friends I might add. Most people I am friends with are a bit lazy and prefer just unwinding with a pint, so I found myself becoming better friends with people I know who didn't mind getting up on a weekend morning for a wee 50k cycle.