GAs going out in boiler

Waesfjord

Hi,

I've a Glowworm 18Si gas boiler with the following problem. When running for a while, I note that t he gas is going off, only to be relit after a few seconds. Then more recently, I can hear the gas go out (a puff sound), hear the lighter automatically trying to reignite, but failing, then boiler goes out after a few seconds with an F4 alarm.

During last Bord Gais service month or so ago, I mentioned this to person. After checking the air intake and exhaust emissions, they found no problems (i.e. so exhaust air not leaking into incoming air to cause low oxygen).

I'm guessing that there is some gas valve that is faulty, causing the gas supply to intermittently stop flowing - anybody advise if this could be the problem or is there something else more likely

Thanks for the help.

Dtp1979

brian1976 wrote: »

Hi,

I've a Glowworm 18Si gas boiler with the following problem. When running for a while, I note that t he gas is going off, only to be relit after a few seconds. Then more recently, I can hear the gas go out (a puff sound), hear the lighter automatically trying to reignite, but failing, then boiler goes out after a few seconds with an F4 alarm.

During last Bord Gais service month or so ago, I mentioned this to person. After checking the air intake and exhaust emissions, they found no problems (i.e. so exhaust air not leaking into incoming air to cause low oxygen).

I'm guessing that there is some gas valve that is faulty, causing the gas supply to intermittently stop flowing - anybody advise if this could be the problem or is there something else more likely

Thanks for the help.

There's nothing we can advise on here except get in contact with an RGI

anuprising

hi op , while this is something you can't do yourself , I will point you in the direction . most rgi s ability in fault finding stops at reading the fault codes .
that boiler has a fault with the spark electrode that results in a F4 or F1 alarm .
get an rgi to change the spark electrode and should be fine . most misdiagnose it as a gas problem but it is usually the spark electrode cracked or split , can't detect flame shuts out , cools down can relight sometimes

Egass13

anuprising wrote: »

hi op , while this is something you can't do yourself , I will point you in the direction . most rgi s ability in fault finding stops at reading the fault codes .
that boiler has a fault with the spark electrode that results in a F4 or F1 alarm .
get an rgi to change the spark electrode and should be fine . most misdiagnose it as a gas problem but it is usually the spark electrode cracked or split , can't detect flame shuts out , cools down can relight sometimes

+1 on the fault .
Can't say I agree with the generalisation that most rgi's are useless though .

shane 007

Fault could equally be flame rectification probe or even a faulty PCB.
Poor boiler earth can also lead to poor flame rectification, so checking to see if earth resistance between boiler earth components & the spur screws is below 1ohm could be of benefit.

Either way, a fault that would be easily resolved.

esox28

Theirs your problem straight away, you got Bg to do a service, how could they fault find any boiler within 20mins if that's what is alotted for service, most rgi services usually take hour and a quarter for a general service.

anuprising

Egass13 wrote: »

+1 on the fault .
Can't say I agree with the generalisation that most rgi's are useless though .

I get called to a good few of these after 3 or 4 lads have had a go before me and failed but still charged .
usually they read thf fault code as gas failure , check the pressures when they are correct they usually put it on to faulty regulator and ring networks . very few lads I come across have bothered to familiarise themselves with specific boiler faults . I apologise for generalising , didn't mean to upset anyone , but it's my experience with the lads I encounter

Waesfjord

Thanks for the replies everyone.

It seems that my description was detailed enough for you pinpoint most likely fault. Pity the BG person didn't listen to me as I described the problem exactly (without the F4 code as was happening and relighting, so no F4 appearing then), however he did nothing to diagnose/fix.

I'll get a local RGI in to fix the problem. any guesstimate on pricing of the fix, including labour? I ask because the pump needs replacing aswell on this boiler, which could cost approx. 90euro for new part or 45 used but unknown qulity. It's all starting to add up on a boiler that is now approx. 10years old, with a semi-blocked heat exchanger...

brian1976

brian1976 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone.

It seems that my description was detailed enough for you pinpoint most likely fault. Pity the BG person didn't listen to me as I described the problem exactly (without the F4 code as was happening and relighting, so no F4 appearing then), however he did nothing to diagnose/fix.

I'll get a local RGI in to fix the problem. any guesstimate on pricing of the fix, including labour? I ask because the pump needs replacing aswell on this boiler, which could cost approx. 90euro for new part or 45 used but unknown qulity. It's all starting to add up on a boiler that is now approx. 10years old, with a semi-blocked heat exchanger...

Try ringing the manufactures to see if they can point you in the right direction of a good Rgi for your boiler.

Egass13

esox28 wrote: »

Theirs your problem straight away, you got Bg to do a service, how could they fault find any boiler within 20mins if that's what is alotted for service, most rgi services usually take hour and a quarter for a general service.

Again a generalisation . Not all BG engineers are gimps , and also it's 45mins allotted for a service , not 20. If an engineer decides to do it in 20 and the customer Dsnt complain then there's not much can be done about it .

DGOBS

Fault could equally be flame rectification probe or even a faulty PCB.
Poor boiler earth can also lead to poor flame rectification, so checking to see if earth resistance between boiler earth components & the spur screws is below 1ohm could be of benefit.

Either way, a fault that would be easily resolved.

In fairness to the lad who serviced it, if the fault wasn't occurring when he was there, all he can do is check everything associated with that type of issue.

But if it's a PCB intermittent fault etc, if it's not broke he can't fix it.

Your being very harsh on the lad guys, for all you know he checked everything, as it's happened to us all.

If there was an issue there, with the 18si, short cycling, this is often a sign of scale/sludge and possibly a blocked bypass (blocked open that is)
but if F4 wasn't showing, but short cycling was occurring, it's 2 different issues usually, possibly still pCB related

DGOBS

DGOBS wrote: »

In fairness to the lad who serviced it, if the fault wasn't occurring when he was there, all he can do is check everything associated with that type of issue.

But if it's a PCB intermittent fault etc, if it's not broke he can't fix it.

Your being very harsh on the lad guys, for all you know he checked everything, as it's happened to us all.

If there was an issue there, with the 18si, short cycling, this is often a sign of scale/sludge and possibly a blocked bypass (blocked open that is)
but if F4 wasn't showing, but short cycling was occurring, it's 2 different issues usually, possibly still pCB related

You know how it is Tony(DGOBS) some RGI's like to try to make themselves priceless and think they are better than others:D, personally I find fault finding easy peasy one day and another day the boiler has me in tears, I'm sure after the customer sees me on my fifth Kleenex they must wonder what fruit loop they've let in the door.

So long story short OP fault finding is a snap shot in time and the boiler doesn't always tell us what's wrong's no matter how good the RGI is that and there are one or two crap RGI's

DGOBS

Where are you based Brian (not donning a cape this time!)

esox28

Egass13 wrote: »

Again a generalisation . Not all BG engineers are gimps , and also it's 45mins allotted for a service , not 20. If an engineer decides to do it in 20 and the customer Dsnt complain then there's not much can be done about it .

Ah no never called anyone a gimp, my only point being from my experiences in midlands any bg, airtricity and any other shippers offering a boiler service its 20mins or a new boiler misses.

Dtp1979

esox28 wrote: »

Ah no never called anyone a gimp, my only point being from my experiences in midlands any bg, airtricity and any other shippers offering a boiler service its 20mins or a new boiler misses.

I know a BG service guy in the midlands and he's better than most I know

jimf

its like in every trade really lads you have the good the bad and wheather your ugly or not it doesn't matter once you can do the job your getting paid to do

esox28

esox28 wrote: »

Ah no never called anyone a gimp, my only point being from my experiences in midlands any bg, airtricity and any other shippers offering a boiler service its 20mins or a new boiler misses.

I covered the Midlands for BG for a while, never once wore my gimp mask, I would have if asked:cool:

esox28

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I know a BG service guy in the midlands and he's better than most I know

Yea, no ya can't paint them all, no more than ourselves. But I stand on my opinion.

Dtp1979

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I know a BG service guy in the midlands and he's better than most I know

Get a room.

esox28

gary71 wrote: »

I covered the Midlands for BG for a while, never once wore my gimp mask, I would have if asked:cool:

Was that you....new boiler mate/ misses.

esox28

No hotels in midlands

esox28

esox28 wrote: »

Was that you....new boiler mate/ misses.

Only if they were oap's;)

esox28

wasn't midlands you were in we've no oap's we drink from the fountain of "kilbeggan whiskey" youth.

Waesfjord

DGOBS wrote: »

Where are you based Brian (not donning a cape this time!)

I'm based in Dublin 15 (Ongar) - any recommendations of a good, reasonable RGI in the area?