Fake NCT disc and a lemon

goz83

My brother bought a 00 punto last night. Met the seller at a Lidl in maynooth. Asking was 475. The brakes were not great at all. He paid 330 and drove away with the logbook. The only problem on the test drive was the brakes and the car had nct til August....or so he thought.

After 20 minutes of motorway driving, the car started to lose power and the engine was juddering hard. It kept stalling and he noticed a bit of an oil leak, but there was plenty of oil in the car when he checked it. Had to get a tow home and then my sister said the nct disc looked a bit funny. It was faded and when I checked it myself, I could see it was a definite fake. The silver emblem was stuck on and the paper was regular printer paper. The print resolution wasn't great either.

I tried calling the 089 number the guy used and there was no answer. I text him to say that he sold a car with a fake nct disc and that we would be going to the Guards shortly unless he called back.

I know "buyer beware" but mechanics aside...the car had a fake disc and this is something I think most people would have missed, aside from it being fraudulent. The previous nct disc expired September 2013. The car was bought in maynooth, Kildare but the logbook is still addressed to a lady in Lucan.

What would be the best course of action?

My brother wants to just get the car nct'd and fixed and to use it, but I am pretty annoyed about the whole thing. Selling a lemon is one thing, but faking an nct is a bit too much. The guy claimed he had owned the car for 8 months. f that were true, he owned it before the real nct expired.

Arthur Beesley

Do cars really go for EUR330?

goz83

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Do cars really go for EUR330?

my friend bought a 00 astra for 400 a week ago and it's pretty decent actually. just no nct. They go for a lot less with no nct.

Saucy McKetchup

Is his address not in the log book? Report it to the Gardai

christy02

I usually would expect cert as well as disc. For 330 euro not really worth the hassle is it? Fix it or scrap it and call it a lesson learned.

christy02

I usually would expect cert as well as disc. For 330 euro not really worth the hassle is it? Fix it or scrap it and call it a lesson learned.

rovoagho

Should've spent thirty quid on a motor check.

I'd be reporting it to the guards, they should be able to follow up based on the log book, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for a prosecution.

lollsangel

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Do cars really go for EUR330?

I bought my first car for eur395 (garage sale) 96 323f.

op ive got a feeling that hes going to be hard to trace unless that lady from lucan knows who she sold it to. Mind you if the car is still registered to her she would be getting tax reminders, is the tax up to date (can u tax a car not in your name, and without interest in it (like I know my partner can sign his forms and I can get his disc, but dont they link insurance to tax?)

L-M

The 089 sim will be in the bin and that person never took ownership of the logbook, to be honest for a 300 euro car you're wasting time thinking your going to get some satisfaction. Just make sure your brother dates the logbook from today incase there are any fines etc. Built up.

YbFocus

goz83 wrote: »

my friend bought a 00 astra for 400 a week ago and it's pretty decent actually. just no nct. They go for a lot less with no nct.

I bought a 99 one last week for €50

Engine loom damage and no nct but shes running mint now and awaiting test

goz83

Tax isn't up to date. He was in a rush to get a car. He isn't really up to date on motor checks. Its only a few hundred quid. The issue I have is the fraud that took place and the fact that he didn't really have the money to be spending to begin with. He needs a car....its a long story I wont get into.

Phil_Lives

was looking at a car for 450 quid last weekend. 66k miles claimed but once I saw it I knew it was clocked. went to engine bay and saw the faint impression of a permanent marker note that timing belt was serviced at 69k. Gave the seller a print out of the car report I had purchased for 8 euro from mywheels.ie showing its history and walked away.
Bought another car for 650 later in the day which seems like it will be better but I have to fit a waterpump.
At this sort of money you pay your money and take your chances because no solicitor will be interested in representing you in court. Even for more expensive purchases up to a few thousand euro you won't get many interested solicitors.

8 euro check will tell you when nct expired, tax expired and when ownership was transferred.
no finance check though. for a banger category car it is worth the money. I'm not associated with the website. I just use their printouts as it saves me have to burn more in fuel and time going to see cars that aren't worth viewing.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It's most likely the number is not registered and could be difficult to trace. For the sake of €330 I'd say scrap the car, you'll get 200 scrap value and tell your brother to take it as a lesson learned not to buy scrap cars without thoroughly checking them out first.

The juddering engine and losing power sounds like the head gasket has possibly gone and the engine seizing.

Atlantic Dawn

goz83 wrote: »

My brother bought a 00 punto last night. Met the seller at a Lidl in maynooth. Asking was 475. The brakes were not great at all. He paid 330 and drove away with the logbook. The only problem on the test drive was the brakes and the car had nct til August....or so he thought.

After 20 minutes of motorway driving, .

Your brother bought a car for €330 and on test drive found the brakes to be bad so then takes it on to a motorway, the mind boggles how many risks some people will take with their own and the safety of others :rolleyes:

What you need to do is contact the owner of the car on the VLC and see who they sold it to. I'd go straight to the Gardai myself with the fake cert and let them handle it, should be seen as a fairly serious crime faking documents.

biko

goz83 wrote: »

He paid 330 and drove away with the logbook.

The seller gave him the logbook? Did seller sign it? Any ID?

Mycroft H

rovoagho wrote: »

Should've spent thirty quid on a motor check.

I'd be reporting it to the guards, they should be able to follow up based on the log book, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for a prosecution.

On a car worth 300 odd quid? I'd have saved myself the hassle and had a look at the disc properly.

Jellybaby1

I was always told when buying a second hand car from its owner or its 'owner', you (1) never meet the seller in a car park or street, and (2) you should make sure you meet the seller in his home, not outside it at the garden gate or outside an apartment block, or around the corner, actually in his home and (3) have some knowledgeable person with you if necessary. You have to knock on his door or ring his bell, and he has to answer his own door. So if you are selling you should have family members with you. You still can't guarantee its his house, but you can be a bit more sure he has access to that address. We sold a car years ago to a young girl, we were at home, we invited them in, she came into the kitchen while her dad took the car for a spin with my husband. All above board.

lollsangel

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I was always told when buying a second hand car from its owner or its 'owner', you (1) never meet the seller in a car park or street, and (2) you should make sure you meet the seller in his home, not outside it at the garden gate or outside an apartment block, or around the corner, actually in his home. You have to knock on his door or ring his bell, and he has to answer his own door. So if you are selling you should have family members with you. You still can't guarantee its his house, but you can be a bit more sure he has access to that address. We sold a car years ago to a young girl, we were at home, we invited them in, she came into the kitchen while dad took the car for a spin with my husband. All above board.

I'll be honest, I'd be 100percent genuine, and I wouldn't want a stranger in my house .

colm_mcm

Its quite simple.

Buy prepay sim
Make a "we buy cars for cash" ad
Get a call.
Go to sellers house
Offer feck all
Take log book but don't put it in your name
Advertise car
Make fake nct
Sell car
Dispose of SIM card
Repeat process.

Waste of time pursuing this guy.
Scrap car and move on.


No point in reporting to donedeal, I did this before and they were no help. I also contacted the nct who said they wouldn't confirm the validity of the disc for data protection reasons.

Moneymaker

goz83 wrote: »

my friend bought a 00 astra for 400 a week ago and it's pretty decent actually. just no nct. They go for a lot less with no nct.

Yup, bought a same year Punto as the OP for 400 and it's pretty much perfect. Go look at the pics in bangernomics thread. And the NCT on it is genuine.

Just an unfortunate experience for the OP, hopefully he learns from it.

Jellybaby1

lollsangel wrote: »

I'll be honest, I'd be 100percent genuine, and I wouldn't want a stranger in my house .

Yes, I understand that of course. But with the girl and her dad, and the fact that we weren't alone either, it just worked well. Meeting a complete stranger in a car park just screams dodgy to me.

goz83

I went out on the search today with my brother for a better car. Picked up a nice mondeo for 800 quid. nct is out in a few days, but I gave it a good looking over. EML is on. Owner claims its the EGR. One tyre needs changing, because there is a bulge on tyre wall. This is it => http://www.adverts.ie/3381498

Took logbook away and car will be laid up until he can afford to get the small bits sorted and nct the car. My wallet is a whole lot lighter this evening :eek:

Good news is that his friend is buying the punto for 300 off him. He wants to fix it haha. Great news all round

ironclaw

colm_mcm wrote: »

I also contacted the nct who said they wouldn't confirm the validity of the disc for data protection reasons.

Its utter non-sense that you can't bang in a the reg and get the last, say 5, tests sheets. As long as it isn't showing the name, address etc of the person then I can't see the problem. As a public service it would greatly aid those making informed purchasing decisions.

In fact, I'd go as far to say if you started a business selling the last X test sheets for even €5, you'd make a mint.

Very simple to implement if two heads go together.

I went out on the search today with my brother for a better car. Picked up a nice mondeo for 800 quid. nct is out in a few days, but I gave it a good looking over. EML is on. Owner claims its the EGR. One tyre needs changing, because there is a bulge on tyre wall. This is it => http://www.adverts.ie/3381498

Just serviced? With a light on? No offence, but I don't feel you have an iota of knowledge when it comes to buying cars. Unless you scanned the car (At least), that code could be something far more serious. For instance, a mate picked up an A3 with an 'O2 Sensor Fault' The car needs an entire new block as the breather system has more holes than cheese.

goz83

ironclaw wrote: »

Just serviced? With a light on? No offence, but I don't feel you have an iota of knowledge when it comes to buying cars. Unless you scanned the car (At least), that code could be something far more serious. For instance, a mate picked up an A3 with an 'O2 Sensor Fault' The car needs an entire new block as the breather system has more holes than cheese.

It's awfully regretful that I am not such an expert like you. But, for the average Joe, who isn't a mechanic, carrying around a pro diagnostic kit and army of mechanics every time I want to view a car, I reckon the purchase was a decent one. :rolleyes:

With a tight budget, you are always taking a bit of a risk. The main thing is that the car drives and is safe. If there were something a bit more serious, there are Mondeos breaking on every street corner in the country. I don't mean to be smart, but I am well aware that that there "might" be a potentially costly repair if the car is being kept long term. For €800, if it only lasted a few months, he would be happy. I have a mechanic at hand who can sort out whatever issue needs doing. Everything else checked out fine and when an advertiser claims a car has been serviced, I know it's usually BS. But it certainly seemed to be true in this case. The oil was clean and the engine sounded great.

If you know of more common EML issues, that info would indeed be useful.

christy02

goz83 wrote: »

It's awfully regretful that I am not such an expert like you. But, for the average Joe, who isn't a mechanic, carrying around a pro diagnostic kit and army of mechanics every time I want to view a car, I reckon the purchase was a decent one. :rolleyes:

With a tight budget, you are always taking a bit of a risk. The main thing is that the car drives and is safe. If there were something a bit more serious, there are Mondeos breaking on every street corner in the country. I don't mean to be smart, but I am well aware that that there "might" be a potentially costly repair if the car is being kept long term. For €800, if it only lasted a few months, he would be happy. I have a mechanic at hand who can sort out whatever issue needs doing. Everything else checked out fine and when an advertiser claims a car has been serviced, I know it's usually BS. But it certainly seemed to be true in this case. The oil was clean and the engine sounded great.

If you know of more common EML issues, that info would indeed be useful.

Tbh I agree with ironclaw. You obviously haven't learned anything from your €300 lesson.

You just got sold a lemon and what do you do? Go out and buy another car with no nct and an em light on. "Sure its just the egr valve"

Plenty of cheap cars out there with a bit of nct and no lights on. I recently sold an avensis with 15 months nct and running perfectly for little over 1k.

road_high

Agree with others here. Having bought one lemon you go out and spend more money on a car with the engine man light on. This could mean a whole host of (expensive) engine faults to fix.
I hope for your own sake I am wrong of course and it is minor. Egr valve replacent is expensive enough relative to the cost of the car you bought too.

hfallada

All state issued documents have security features that cant be reproduced easily. All revenue letters have a hall mark watermarked into them(very expensive and difficult to repeat). Tax disc have a metallic paint and an NCT disc has a small hologram. You can generally tell a fake document in a few seconds with a proper look

unkel

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Do cars really go for EUR330?

For sure. Ireland has the cheapest second hand cars in the world. Few people are buying, many people are selling

Picked up a lovely little convertible sports car myself a few days ago. Brand new NCT (valid for over a year), 2 months tax, very well maintained, serviced, new tyres, new battery, new brake pads and discs, €550

bazz26

unkel wrote: »

For sure. Ireland has the cheapest second hand cars in the world. Few people are buying, many people are selling

Picked up a lovely little convertible sports car myself a few days ago. Brand new NCT (valid for over a year), 2 months tax, very well maintained, serviced, new tyres, new battery, new brake pads and discs, €550

Nice, what did you get? MGF, Cappuccino, Z3?

unkel

Good guess! MGF



I know you're not particularly interested in bangernomics cars yourself, but some nice enough cars do come up on it sometimes

dgt

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Do cars really go for EUR330?

I've gotten sub €160 cars with over 3 months test.

Free roadworthy cars are out there if one looks hard enough.....

unkel

dgt wrote: »

I've gotten sub €160 cars with over 3 months test.

Free roadworthy cars are out there if one looks hard enough.....

Aye, there are cars out there that can be bought with test and then sold for scrap after the test runs out for the same money.

I prefer nice, well maintained cars for not much more than scrap money myself

Kaiser D

I once got a P10 Nissan Primera that had been more countries than I have, in road worthy condition, for €50.

ellavin

I once bought a golf paid 2 grand.. pulled into my parents all proud of my purchase ... loud noise came from engine find out it was the timing belt! Engine wreaked ... harsh

power pants

I will never buy a 2nd car without either bringing a mechanic to the car or the car to a garage

too many **** boxes out there. Ive mentioned in a couple of times on here but I went to see a car that seemed perfect, not a dent or scratch, 4 decent tyres, full service history, receipts and what not to show work been done. The seller bored the ears of me literally with all his "knowledge" about how great the car was. Just had a brand new nct as well

If I was hasty I could have bought it but I disengaged from his chit chat and brought it to a mechanic for 50e

told me it was a heap of **** and walk away, actually run away-oil leaks, timing chain issue, breaks to be replaced etc etc

I did

bazz26

unkel wrote: »

Good guess! MGF



I know you're not particularly interested in bangernomics cars yourself, but some nice enough cars do come up on it sometimes

Very nice. You never do know, I'd never rule out anything as I'm now at the mid life crisis age.

christy02

That mgf looks sweet. Very clean for the money. You really get that for 550?