Irish vs English Last Name

sh1tin-a-brick

Hi, hope this is in the right place. Feel free to move it if it's not.

Among the hundreds of queries about changing from the Anglecised to the Gaeilge version of one's surname, I'm asking about going the opposite way.

I'll use a similar name here to explain. My family name is, say, Mullen. That's my grandfather's name, great-grandfather etc etc. However my father at age 18 switched to using the Irish form, Ó Maolain (not sure if that's the correct spelling, just an example). However upon marriage my mother took the english form, Mullen.

On my birth certificate my last name is given as Ní Mhaolain. I used the English form in primary school, but switched to using the Irish name at secondary school. I am now continuing with the Irish form at college, it's on my age-card, licence, passport.

Problem is, despite being proud of my heritage, and my very good grasp of the language, if asked what my name is I will always say the anglecised form. My family aside from my dad all use the anglecised form, and have done so for many generations. I feel like the English form is more representative of our family.

I would be happy enough to legally have my name in Irish but continue to use the english form informally, however I have concerns for my future. I intend on leaving the country when I'm finished my degree to work or pursue further education in the UK, or spend time in Canada. Just today on RTE Radio 1 a few comments were made about people with unusual names possibly missing out on opportunities in life. I am concerned that if I begin to work in the UK, my Irish name will be a hinderance. It's not an easy one to pronounce, any non-Irish speakers would have great difficulty even attempting it (there's an "Mh" in it which terrifies non-Irish speakers).

I don't know if I could completely drop the Irish form and go for a complete legal name change to the old Bearla version, however I also don't want the difficulty of carrying a very unusual and difficult last name outside of Ireland. I can't imagine I'd be able to just switch to using my English form abroad without any ID with that name, or is there any way around that?

Advice would be appreciated. Also, if I'm just being an idiot then do let me know.

Poll Dubh

I don't think you're being an idiot - it's a fair issue. Millions of Irish people before you have dropped their family names for an anglicised version for the sake of an easier life, though I doubt many actually wanted to, but were pressurised to do it. Sure it can be a pain to use an Irish name in Ireland, not to mind abroad. The forces for cultural homogeneity are strong, such as that radio programme you mentioned. But I don't see you having much trouble using your Irish name for official purposes abroad and the anglicised version for day to day use. Your father admirably bucked the trend by reversing a historical injustice and giving you back your original family name. Have pride in your name and certainly say it with pride in Ireland.

Rhedyn

Poll Dubh wrote: »

Your father admirably bucked the trend by reversing a historical injustice and giving you back your original family name. Have pride in your name..

I totally agree.

PLL

Agree with above. Sometimes I wish I had given my daughter the Irish version of her surname, her first name is Gaelic so it would fit well. Anyways be proud of your name, abroad yes I would pronounce it the Anglicanized way but don't change your name over it.

deirdremf

sh1tin-a-brick wrote: »

I would be happy enough to legally have my name in Irish but continue to use the english form informally, however I have concerns for my future. I intend on leaving the country when I'm finished my degree to work or pursue further education in the UK, or spend time in Canada. Just today on RTE Radio 1 a few comments were made about people with unusual names possibly missing out on opportunities in life. I am concerned that if I begin to work in the UK, my Irish name will be a hinderance. It's not an easy one to pronounce, any non-Irish speakers would have great difficulty even attempting it (there's an "Mh" in it which terrifies non-Irish speakers).

The English are well-used to people with unusual surnames from all over the world, and I'd say the Canadians are too.
I really doubt that it is going to be much of a hindrance to you.
A couple of decades back a guy called Zbigniew Brzezinski got one of the top jobs in the US government, for instance.

So I'd say, enjoy your name - and in the final analysis, do what is right for you. And why not discuss your prolem with your parents? Given that they use different version of the surname, it sounds like they would be able to give you good advice.

planter

There are plenty of unusual names in the UK and Canada with many recent immigrants and the descendants of people with foreign names, they really aren't a problem, people get used to them.

I was born with a Bearla name but in later life adopted leagan Gaeilge officially. Honestly, the cost, confusion and problems arising from doing this far outweigh and anxiety you feel about people pronouncing it wrong etc. In recent years I have gone back to my birth name, and life is much easier.

I do understand your family angle though. I was learning Irish when I adopted my Irish name and was quite proud of it, but I just never felt that same connection too it as I did my Bearla name, the name my entire family used (and had done since time immemorial). My advice would be stick with your birth name, dont bother changing it to make anyones life any easier as I think thats a wrong reason, only change it if you genuinely feel more connection to your name in English, but be prepared for form filling (and cheque writing!)

Míshásta

I'm afraid it's in Ireland you'll have some people making an issue of it. As other posters have said, abroad people just accept it as a non-English spelling.

P. Breathnach

Míshásta wrote: »

I'm afraid it's in Ireland you'll have some people making an issue of it....

I'm claiming some seniority here, as I have been known by my Irish name from birth through to retirement.

Since my adolescent years (and you know what adolescents are like) nobody has made an issue of my name. Now and again, perhaps a couple of times a year, somebody asks me "what's that in English?". Now, there's an opening for me to make an issue, but I don't. I tell them, and add "but I never use that form". And all is well.

sh1tin-a-brick

Thanks for all the excellent and insightful replies!

Still a little concerned about the use abroad when I'm starting to build a career from the bottom. As an example, if both "John Smith" and I are low men on the totem pole in a company, and the boss wants something done, he might shout the easiest name first. I'm probably over-thinking it though. I'd say I'll use my proper Gaeilge name, but let them call me by the English version informally if they find it easier. :P

Interesting point about most difficulties being in found in Ireland. My first name is as Gaeilge aswell (I will never, ever alter the spelling of that), and once I've pronounced it to anyone foreign, they're absolutely fine. However, I've had many many Irish people refuse to pronounce it correctly. It's maddening! There's a silent "th" in it that they just insist on pronouncing for some reason... Or worse, they insist on spelling it the English way.

To add to that last point, I mentioned previously that I used the Irish form of my last name throughout secondary school. The first and only teacher who had an issue with it was, shockingly, my Irish teacher. She asked me how to pronounce it. An Irish teacher should honestly have been able to sound it out.

planter wrote: »

I do understand your family angle though. I was learning Irish when I adopted my Irish name and was quite proud of it, but I just never felt that same connection too it as I did my Bearla name, the name my entire family used (and had done since time immemorial).

This, really, is what spurred the whole debate in my head. I'm very fond of that half of my family and tbh, as much as I love and take pride in our language and culture, I really do feel the connection with the English form of the name. I'll probably always introduce myself informally with that form.

Anyway, apologies for the long post. Again, thank you all for the lovely comments and reassurances! I hope the thread will continue for a while because it's quite and interesting issue.