Test for exhaust gases in coolant

macwal

Does anyone know where I can get the coolant system tested for the presence of exhaust gases, and how much the test should cost?

South Dublin area.

Thx.

macwal

No one know of anywhere?

Maybe someone might know a bricks-and-mortar where I might get some "Block Tester"?

YbFocus

I'm trying to figure where the two would get mixed? At the turbo?

Whats going on?

Sorry I can't be of any help but it seems a weird request and one I never knew existed.

Kenny Logins

White steam from the exhaust should be a good indicator..

Kenny Logins

YbFocus wrote: »

I'm trying to figure where the two would get mixed? At the turbo?

Whats going on?

Sorry I can't be of any help but it seems a weird request and one I never knew existed.

Internal head gasket leak.

randy hickey

OP, is it a Sniff Test Kit you're really looking for?
If so, try Rathgar Motor Factors, as I know they used to stock them.

Renegade Mechanic

Pretty much any garage worth its salt- independent garages in particular- will have a basic test kit, theyre cheap enough as are the fluid refills. Call into your nearest one and they should easily be able to do it with the engine warmed up.

Sniffer tests will detect the beginnings of a h/g leak if you dont see any bubbles appearing in the coolant reservoir but youre still suspicious. Id also lift the dipstick and make sure the oil isnt a light, chocolate/mayonnaise colour. This would indicate a leak of coolant into the oil system that a sniffer test wouldn't pick up on. Lastly youll know if theres a, the other way round- oil into the cooling system, the second you open the coolant cap (Im looking at you, Volkswagen! :mad: ). You'll see a thick gloop inside it.

macwal

Thanks for the replies.

I made another post a few days before, but got no replies to that. I can't direct link (not enough posts), but it is thread # 2057200814

Long story short, there is foreign material in the coolant.

Car isn't consuming coolant; engine oil level is ok, cap and dipstick are clear of white gloop; and the engine hasn't overheated. No white smoke from exhaust. No black smoke either. Car seems normal, other than material in coolant, and noise from timing or aux belt area, as mentioned in the other thread. It also had its NCT a couple of months ago and emissions were well within limits.

I took a 10ml sample from the coolant expansion tank, and centrifuged it, and the foreign material spun down easily in a couple of minutes at 4k rpm. The supernatant looks normal, a clear pink colour. The foreign stuff that spun down probably constituted less than 1/4 of a millilitre, it looks black/dark grey, and I think is not magnetic.

I've been trying to think what it could be, and headgasket seems possible from what I've been reading, if gases are getting through it to the coolant, but do the gases precipitate out, or form this black material from a chemical reaction with the coolant? I don't know. I did have a headgasket issue about 8 years ago on another car, but it was definitely overheating, and the coolant didn't go dirty like this one has, though the nature of the failure may have been different. Perhaps with mine it is too, but more subtle right now.

Another thing I've been think about is possibly the noise is coming from the water pump, maybe the seals are breaking down, but I don't know what kind of seals it might have; do they have carbon faced mechanical seals? Timing belt is due in the near future, but think this foreign material in the coolant issue should be pinpointed first before spending €500+ for timing belt/water pump/coolant renewal.

The service book says that the coolant was replaced when the timing belt and water pump were replaced in August 2007, about 35k miles ago. The car was laid up all last year, but I'm not sure if that would be relevant. Perhaps there has been some deterioration of the coolant over that time, or breakdown of something else in the system? I'm just hoping that it's not the headgasket. I'm going to check the pH of the coolant and perhaps filter it if I have time on Tuesday; I read somewhere that the coolant is normally alkaline, but if exhaust gases go through it, it can turn it acidic.

Renegade Mechanic

Nitrogen oxide in the exhaust would possibly react with the coolant, making it acidic though im not much of a chemistry buff so not sure:o

Material in the coolant and noise in the timing belt area, Id say the water pump is in trouble. Id get that looked at soon, alright.
Thats the extreme scenario. Other than that the coolant is very old and theres just some bits of dirt from around the engine or radiator. Minor corrosion perhaps. 7 years is shoving on for any coolant, pump or belt (id even be wary of those "10 year" belts if they've been sat in position for a year after six in use.

Also, what car/engine?

Kenny Logins

macwal wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I made another post a few days before, but got no replies to that. I can't direct link (not enough posts), but it is thread # 2057200814

Long story short, there is foreign material in the coolant.

Car isn't consuming coolant; engine oil level is ok, cap and dipstick are clear of white gloop; and the engine hasn't overheated. No white smoke from exhaust. No black smoke either. Car seems normal, other than material in coolant, and noise from timing or aux belt area, as mentioned in the other thread. It also had its NCT a couple of months ago and emissions were well within limits.

I took a 10ml sample from the coolant expansion tank, and centrifuged it, and the foreign material spun down easily in a couple of minutes at 4k rpm. The supernatant looks normal, a clear pink colour. The foreign stuff that spun down probably constituted less than 1/4 of a millilitre, it looks black/dark grey, and I think is not magnetic.

I've been trying to think what it could be, and headgasket seems possible from what I've been reading, if gases are getting through it to the coolant, but do the gases precipitate out, or form this black material from a chemical reaction with the coolant? I don't know. I did have a headgasket issue about 8 years ago on another car, but it was definitely overheating, and the coolant didn't go dirty like this one has, though the nature of the failure may have been different. Perhaps with mine it is too, but more subtle right now.

Another thing I've been think about is possibly the noise is coming from the water pump, maybe the seals are breaking down, but I don't know what kind of seals it might have; do they have carbon faced mechanical seals? Timing belt is due in the near future, but think this foreign material in the coolant issue should be pinpointed first before spending €500+ for timing belt/water pump/coolant renewal.

The service book says that the coolant was replaced when the timing belt and water pump were replaced in August 2007, about 35k miles ago. The car was laid up all last year, but I'm not sure if that would be relevant. Perhaps there has been some deterioration of the coolant over that time, or breakdown of something else in the system? I'm just hoping that it's not the headgasket. I'm going to check the pH of the coolant and perhaps filter it if I have time on Tuesday; I read somewhere that the coolant is normally alkaline, but if exhaust gases go through it, it can turn it acidic.

You may be overthinking this. Flush the coolant and fill with fresh, of the correct type/grade mixed with distilled water. Check again after a week or two.

macwal

2002 Seat Leon, 1.4L petrol.

The car is booked in for a timing belt and water pump change for the reason you mentioned above (sitting for a year, as I noticed slight ridges on the belt matching the teeth on the wheel), along with coolant renewal for Thursday, but think a sniff test on the coolant first would put my mind at rest. I might postpone the booking until I know a bit more.

I'm wondering perhaps if the material is aluminium either from the rad or heating core. If the coolant is acidic, it is possible. I read somewhere that over time, coolant can go acidic through normal wear and tear in the system, even if exhaust gases aren't bubbling through it. Might mean new rad on the horizon though.

Anyway, I can check the pH myself tomorrow, and if the pH is high, I might try filtering it or replace it if the pH is low. The car isn't showing any of the usual signs for head-gasket compromise, so maybe I am overthinking it.

Thanks all for the advice.

dr.fuzzenstein

This could be crud from almost anywhere in your coolant system.
If something was changed it could have knocked debris lose, this could come from a plastic housing, a disintegrating gasket, disintegrating hose, general crud in the radiator or even crud already present when the coolant was refilled due to careless mixing in unclean vessels.
You would have to ascertain if the crud is metal, plastic or rubber.
But if your coolant doesn't smell like exhaust, is discoloured, bubbly or has mayonnaise present in it, I don't see a headgasket leak.

macwal

Yep, these are all things I've considered. There hasn't been any changes made recently, and everything seems to work as it should (including the cabin heater).

I can separate the foreign material from the coolant, but the stuff is extremely fine, and I don't believe its magnetic (but that wouldn't rule out aluminium). If I was to try and describe it, something similar would be like the stuff you can get to lubricate key lock, like fine graphite.

I have read elsewhere about smelling the expansion tank to see if it smells of exhaust gas, but what do they mean when they say exhaust gas smell? Is it the smell you get when driving behind a white van, and he puts his foot down, and you see all the black smoke from his exhaust? Is it a sufficating/gagging type of smell? I have smelled the coolant, and it smells like coolant, a slightly sweet smell. The exhaust gas on any cars I've had recently don't really smell of much; maybe they just had good cats.

dr.fuzzenstein

One way to find out would be to open the oil filler cap and get a good sniff of that.
That's what you don't want to smell in your coolant. :pac:

macwal

No, the smell from the engine has the usual oily smell, the smell from the coolant doesn't smell of much, just the light sweet smell. Certainly doesn't smell like the engine filler hole.

One other thing I've noticed is that there isn't huge pressure when I remove the coolant cap. I checked it this morning, 20 minute drive to work, engine is up to temperature (and it gets up to where it should be, right in the middle at 90oC), and although the liquid in the coolant is quite hot, there isn't much (if any) release of pressure when removing the cap. Maybe I need to drive it a bit longer.

dr.fuzzenstein

I actually had that problem, no pressure in the coolant system, but that was due to a leak.
A better way of testing would be to squeeze a coolant hose with the cap on, of course), there should be a definite "inflated" feeling to it, like squeezing a bicycle tire when you pump it up.
If the coolant hose has no pressure to it, something's amiss.
When I open my coolant tank, I also don't get a massive pressure release. Except the day my car boiled over. Then there was a good bit of steam.
So be careful, that can take the skin off your face. :eek:

macwal

I'll have a squeeze of the pipes when I get home this evening. I had a squeeze during lunch, but the engine was cold, and it didn't feel pressurized. Some of the pipes, particularly to and from the rad/engine block, felt a bit soft, though I didn't see any signs of cracking when squeezed. The pipes on my older car are much stiffer.

I did test the pH of the coolant, and it is relatively low, at 7.5 . From what I've read, anything lower than 8.3 isn't good, and it should be up above 9.5 ideally. Perhaps the stuff in the coolant is breakdown/erosion of the rubber pipes?

Anyway, the car is going for the t-belt, water pump and coolant flush on Thursday. Since there are no major "head-gasket issue" tell-tales, I'll hope that the flush will sort things out. Will just have to keep an eye on the pipes, and if it is erosion of the pipes that caused the foreign material in the coolant, check it regularly.

Tail Docker

Having some coolant in amongst the foreign matter seems more popular around here. You may be over-analysing this OP -literally. Everything in an engine starts heading down the ph scale - the combustion process is acidic by nature. If it worries you, change the oil and coolant, and forget it - I'm guessing you have other stuff to be analysing anyway.

randy hickey

It's a bit CSI in here alright.











Coolant System Investigation.




Break out the GCMS OP!

dr.fuzzenstein

Guess our perpetrator just couldn't



















....keep cool



Yeeaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!

wendell borton