Fake No Claims Bonus

NickD

Hi this is a bit strange, so please bear with me.

A friend of mine recently applied for car insurance, first time in her own name, as far as I know she has previously been a named driver, but the insurance was crazy money, I don't know exactly what, few grand I think. Anyway, long story short she called me last night to tell me that she had 'bought a few years no claims bonus' from a company (they are a real company, I checked.) And, once she had paid for them to create a no claims bonus in her name, they offered her insurance at half what she was previously quoted. She said I should do this as she went from 0 years in her own name to 5 whereas I only have 4 (real) years no claims bonus.

They told her this was completely legal and they were doing it for loads of people. I explained to her that as far as I knew this was completely illegal and she could get in a lot of trouble for this. She agrued that the lady who had bought both the no claims bonus and the insurance (same transaction) knew what she was talking about. In her defense, she is young, naive and not from Ireland, so doesn't know the laws, yes I am making excuses for her.

Surely this isn't legal.....is it? Or am I just a total fool who has been doing it right for no reason?

Another question, I am obviously going to report this company if it is illegal, who do I report it to?

wotzgoingon

NickD wrote: »

Hi this is a bit strange, so please bear with me.

A friend of mine recently applied for car insurance, first time in her own name, as far as I know she has previously been a named driver, but the insurance was crazy money, I don't know exactly what, few grand I think. Anyway, long story short she called me last night to tell me that she had 'bought a few years no claims bonus' from a company (they are a real company, I checked.) And, once she had paid for them to create a no claims bonus in her name, they offered her insurance at half what she was previously quoted. She said I should do this as she went from 0 years in her own name to 5 whereas I only have 4 (real) years no claims bonus.

They told her this was completely legal and they were doing it for loads of people. I explained to her that as far as I knew this was completely illegal and she could get in a lot of trouble for this. She agrued that the lady who had bought both the no claims bonus and the insurance (same transaction) knew what she was talking about. In her defense, she is young, naive and not from Ireland, so doesn't know the laws, yes I am making excuses for her.

Surely this isn't legal.....is it? Or am I just a total fool who has been doing it right for no reason?

Another question, I am obviously going to report this company if it is illegal, who do I report it to?

I never heard of a company offering this before and yes it is illegal.

NickD

Thank you for your answer, I thought it was too. I don't know if it is company policy or someone inside the company lining their own pockets

Sobanek

That depends... in theory an insurer could give you 65% NCB after a day if he wanted to tbh.
But if it's 6 years NCB, then that surely is illegal.

If I was added to someone's policy in Poland who had 75% NCB, I have this discount then too and I can transfer it abroad, but only a few would accept it.

Tefral

Insurance is based upon the principle of "upmost good faith". If she is found out and has an accident they will void her insurance and they will come after her for costs.

The gardai would be very interested in this company.

For what it's worth, I think this is disgusting behaviour and it's the reason why we have to pay a levy to cover uninsured drivers.

Cee-Jay-Cee

NCB is an incentive insurance companies offer for staying claims free. It has no legal standing and if insurance companies wanted to they could scrap it in the morning. If a company want to sell you a no claims bonus then offer you insurance then it's up to them. The problems occur when you leave that company and go elsewhere and try and claim you have 5 years NCB when in effect you only have one and if what you are saying is true then I suspect other insurance companies won't accept an NCB from that company.

To be honest it sounds like a bit if a scam. They sell you a NCB on the basis you take insurance out with them so they've sold you two products. I'd be asking about what happens if you move to another company?

ZENER

Absolutely illegal.

https://www.google.ie/#q=fake+no+claim+bonus+certificate&revid=1687926338

She will be in a whole heap of trouble if she's caught I suspect.

Ken

CiniO

Sobanek wrote: »

If I was added to someone's policy in Poland who had 75% NCB, I have this discount then too

I don't think you are right.
In Poland you collect NCB with years of no claims driving, same as here.
Only amount of discounts might differ. Many companies offer 60% discount only after 8 years no claims driving, and step back as standard.
If you were added to someone's policy who holds maximum discount (f.e. 60%), then this policy would still keep maximum discount, but your own NCB would only build year by year.
F.e. after being added to that policy for 4 years, you might have 30% discount on your own.

and I can transfer it abroad, but only a few would accept it.

If you were added to the policy in Poland for 4 year, most Irish insurers would offer you 40% discount.
But no chance of adding yourself to someone's policy who has 70% discount, and inheriting this discount straight away.

Sobanek

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think you are right.
In Poland you collect NCB with years of no claims driving, same as here.
Only amount of discounts might differ. Many companies offer 60% discount only after 8 years no claims driving, and step back as standard.
If you were added to someone's policy who holds maximum discount (f.e. 60%), then this policy would still keep maximum discount, but your own NCB would only build year by year.
F.e. after being added to that policy for 4 years, you might have 30% discount on your own.


If you were added to the policy in Poland for 4 year, most Irish insurers would offer you 40% discount.
But no chance of adding yourself to someone's policy who has 70% discount, and inheriting this discount straight away.

It might depend on the company. My uncle was a "named driver" with Liberty Direct and after two years he had full no claims discount - with a cert and all.

Kenny Logins

Are you sure you have this right? I earned an NCB as a named driver, and some insurers allow this.

scrap_man

Whats the name of the company she bought it off?

NickD

I called my friend to check, I had some details wrong, and I totally apologise.

The company (ie the broker) is not offering this. There are people within the company doing this to line their own pockets. They are falsifying no claims bonuses, completely opening falsefying them, and charging a few hundred euro, under the pretense that this is legal (to the gulible/ non-caring customers) then the employee gets paid into their personal bank a/c their own charge (my friend paid 500 euro, one hundred per year) and the deposit for insurance, and the employee buys the insurance from an actual insurance company, through their work in an broker.

Hope I explained that properly and clearly.

CiniO

Sobanek wrote: »

It might depend on the company. My uncle was a "named driver" with Liberty Direct and after two years he had full no claims discount - with a cert and all.

What did the cert say?
That he was entitled to full NCB? Or 70% NCB? I assume it couldn't say anything more.

Most Polish insurers would require statement of insurance history (year of insurance without claims) to accept NCB, so that kind of statment wouldn't be worth much even in Poland, not even mentioning Ireland.

Any Irish insurer when accepting foreign NCB, they would ask for exact policy history with claims listed, and claims free years listed
Statement that person is entitled to 70% NCB is not good enough.

Also worth mentioning, that in Poland you can't just add someone to insurance policy just like that.
To be listed on Policy, you need to be one of registered owners. So only way to be added to someone's policy, is that owner sells (or gives) you part of his car, and you officially become one of registered owners.

F.e. I when I got my first car in Poland, I had this registered in both my and my father's name.
That way I could get cheap policy using my father's full NCB, while I was also building my own NCB.

But f.e. after 4 years driving without claims, even though I paid the policy with full NCB discount (60%) because my father was also on this policy with his full NCB, but I myself only held 4 years NCB.
So when I moved to Ireland, they only gave me 40% NCB, because I had only 4 years claims free driving on my policy, even though I was using full NCB 60% discount on this policy as I had my father on my policy in Poland.

I hope I wrote this clear enough

NickD

scrap_man wrote: »

Whats the name of the company she bought it off?

I don't know if I should mention it as I am quiet sure the company doesn't know the employee is doing it after asking her a million questions, it seems that the employee is doing it on her own,

oldyouth

Sobanek wrote: »

If I was added to someone's policy in Poland who had 75% NCB, I have this discount then too and I can transfer it abroad, but only a few would accept it.

I'll say this politely. No, that's incorrect

oldyouth

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Are you sure you have this right? I earned an NCB as a named driver, and some insurers allow this.

You did not earn a NCB, you were given Named Driver discount, for commercial reasons, that placed you on the ladder of their NCB scale.

No other insurer is obliged to recognise it (though some do) whereas a policyholder carries his/her NCB like a passport between all insurers

CiniO

oldyouth wrote: »

I'll say this politely. No, that's incorrect

I think do as well.
Strongly doubt any Irish insurer would accept a statment from foreign insurer that their customer hold's 75% NCB discount with them.
They would need to see statement from abroad insurer, that their customer had 7 years claims free policy history with them - and that's what they would accept.

Cee-Jay-Cee

NickD wrote: »

I don't know if I should mention it as I am quiet sure the company doesn't know the employee is doing it after asking her a million questions, it seems that the employee is doing it on her own,

It's fraud on behalf of the employee and the employee is rather stupid selling falsified Certs to people he/she don't know who could and are blabbing details of the scam/fraud to others.

Personally I'd stay well out if it and don't mention the company name here either as you'll end up in bother yourself too.

NickD

The employee is advertising it online. Do I report it? Do I leave it alone? My worry is my friend is going to get caught.

oldyouth

NickD wrote: »

The employee is advertising it online.

No need to bother, it will be found out soon enough. However, your friend who bought the fake document will be guilty of a CRIMINAL offence if they obtain an insurance policy by deception. I'd concentrate on resolving that

NickD

oldyouth wrote: »

No need to bother, it will be found out soon enough. However, your friend who bought the fake document will be guilty of a CRIMINAL offence if they obtain an insurance policy by deception. I'd concentrate on resolving that

Thank you for that, I'll try speak to her again, she is just so sure that the employee who she bought it off is telling the truth....kinda feel like I'm hitting my head off a brick wall here.

challengemaster

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=29

newbee78

CiniO wrote: »

What did the cert say?
That he was entitled to full NCB? Or 70% NCB? I assume it couldn't say anything more.

Most Polish insurers would require statement of insurance history (year of insurance without claims) to accept NCB, so that kind of statment wouldn't be worth much even in Poland, not even mentioning Ireland.

Any Irish insurer when accepting foreign NCB, they would ask for exact policy history with claims listed, and claims free years listed
Statement that person is entitled to 70% NCB is not good enough.

Also worth mentioning, that in Poland you can't just add someone to insurance policy just like that.
To be listed on Policy, you need to be one of registered owners. So only way to be added to someone's policy, is that owner sells (or gives) you part of his car, and you officially become one of registered owners.

F.e. I when I got my first car in Poland, I had this registered in both my and my father's name.
That way I could get cheap policy using my father's full NCB, while I was also building my own NCB.

But f.e. after 4 years driving without claims, even though I paid the policy with full NCB discount (60%) because my father was also on this policy with his full NCB, but I myself only held 4 years NCB.
So when I moved to Ireland, they only gave me 40% NCB, because I had only 4 years claims free driving on my policy, even though I was using full NCB 60% discount on this policy as I had my father on my policy in Poland.

I hope I wrote this clear enough

Irish insurance companies would not accept NCB other then earned in UK or Ireland. Not sure how long this rule is on, but that what it is. Motor insurance policies are very one sided designed to rip off as much as you are willing to pay. Sad, I know, but such is reality at the mo...

Sobanek

newbee78 wrote: »

Irish insurance companies would not accept NCB other then earned in UK or Ireland. Not sure how long this rule is on, but that what it is. Motor insurance policies are very one sided designed to rip off as much as you are willing to pay. Sad, I know, but such is reality at the mo...

That's not true at all.

jameshayes

Operator: "so you are 17, correct?"
Buyer: "Yes, that is correct, born in 1997"
Operator: "And you have 5 years NCB, correct?"

Sure, grand logic!

djimi

When you say fake NCB cert, do you mean they are printing out a NCB pretending that it is from Axa/Liberty/Aviva etc, or have they set up a company themselves called NCB Direct or whatever and are issuing certs out using this company name?

NickD

They are forging a cert from a real insurance company and then buying insurance from another real company using the fake cert.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

So.. ehm, yeah
What's the company!

K.Flyer

newbee78 wrote: »

Irish insurance companies would not accept NCB other then earned in UK or Ireland. Not sure how long this rule is on, but that what it is. Motor insurance policies are very one sided designed to rip off as much as you are willing to pay. Sad, I know, but such is reality at the mo...

Some insurance companies still do, as I found out recently.
But I was asked for a letter from the previous insurer I was with and an official translation of the No Claims Cert.

donegal.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

So.. ehm, yeah
What's the company!

yes i'd like to know too , for ......... em reasons.

Supergurrier

Just when you think you've seen it all...

goz83

Yep, totally illegal. Insurance fraud. When the woman selling the fake certs is caught, all policies she sold will be traced and each one of those people who bought fake bonuses will be in the crapper.