Careers and courses

Hermy

As my interest in all things genealogical grows I'd love to think that I might be able to turn my pastime into a profession. At the moment I don't see much in the way of career opportunities but hopefully if the economy ever turns the corner this may change.
I have no formal training and have mostly relied on my own initiative (and the wise council of this parish) to research, chart and report on my various projects.
So I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience of courses in genealogy and family history or indeed any advice or views on genealogy as a profession.

Jellybaby1

I personally can't think about taking any work on in Genealogy as my time is taken up with my own research and some for my friends. But I wouldn't mind doing some volunteer transcribing but I don't think that work stays in Ireland unfortunately.

L1011

Ancestry.com's volunteer transcribing system has occasional Irish or Irish-interest records - I did a few thousand on a newspaper BMD index for New England / New Jersey last year as I've family links to the area. Familysearch Keying I imagine will in future when they have their huge collection of Irish films digitized.

pinkypinky

Well, I did Sean Murphy's 3 year course in UCD and found it very good.

CIGO has a list of courses http://www.cigo.ie/courses.html (which, full admission, includes my own class!)

There are plenty of genealogists out there with no formal training, as it has only existed in limited form for about 15 years.

Coolnabacky1873

I worked as a pro in the US for 3 years, 2010-2013.

There are a couple of threads on here where I have given some insight about working as a genealogist.

Happy to answer any questions.

pedroeibar1

It is easy to turn any hobby into a business but very hard to make money from it. (Garden design and photography are other examples.) A course / diploma / degree would be very rewarding intellectually, and a very strong selling point for your services. However, you would have to sell a lot of family genealogy to recoup the cost of a good programme(and your 'downtime' while studying.)

On the negatives, many of the people interested in genealogy just do not have the money to spend on it and cannot comprehend (or wish to pay for) the hours of work involved in research. Too many have been misled into believing everythng is available online and it is 'easy when you know how to access all the databases'. They do not realise that much of what is claimed to be available online is more hype than reality. (E.g. a guy using a terminal next to me in the NLI during the week got really annoyed with me when I replied to his question by saying that the recent census additions were just bits from some places and not full details like 1901/1911.) Another negative ( competition ) is the amount of free advice - and often answers - available from experts such as those here.

On the positives, if you have any business acumen and LOTS of marketing skills you will be better than most of the 'specialists' out there. The big issue to overcome is one of image, the industry (big data sites) have misled the potential customer with false and misleading information in a race to announce that 'their' database is biggest and best. So when somebody goes looking for a ggparent in Cork s/he discovers in the small print that while they do have lots of 'Cork' in the database they do not have City centre parishes which is why the punter joined in the first place. IMO most people distrust the genealogy companies at this stage. It would be interesting to hear what Coolnabacky has to say.
Me, I'd stay with it as a hobby, more enjoyable that way.

Hermy

Thanks for the responses guys - very helpful.
Just getting a bit fed up with unemployment and thinking how it would be nice to earn a living doing something genealogical - something I actually care about - rather than looking to the usual humdrum jobs. But perhaps I should just continue to pursue it as a hobby for now lest I get sick of the sight of family trees!

Coolnabacky1873

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

It is easy to turn any hobby into a business but very hard to make money from it.

On the negatives, many of the people interested in genealogy just do not have the money to spend on it and cannot comprehend (or wish to pay for) the hours of work involved in research.

Too many have been misled into believing everything is available online and it is 'easy when you know how to access all the databases'.

Agree with what I've highlighted from pedro's post.

Some other observations

There are different ways that you can try and make money in genealogy: client research, talks/lectures, writing books/articles, teaching, adbanners/paid clicks from popular blog/website. Most people focus on the first one but there are some pro's who don't do client research and earn their money from all the other areas.

Practically every pro genealogist I have come across in the US falls into at least one of these categories:
1. retired and gets main income from pension, turned passion into a business
2. spouse/partner is the main income earner
3. has a different, second job
4. family money or became wealthy from a different job and doesn't have to worry about money anymore.
I do not know ANYONE who is under 50, paying a mortgage and supporting a family on only pro genealogy income.

You need to find some unique selling points that will set you apart from your competitors. Are you an expert on a particular county/province? Specific type of genealogy e.g. landed gentry, police & military etc.

A visible online profile is very important. If everyone thinks they can get all the records online then you need to be online too when they find out they can't and hit the brick wall.

It might go without saying, but you have got to know your stuff inside-out and back to front. Get to a level of knowledge where you can write a definitive book on it.

It takes time to build your profile. Offer to do research for people to practice outside your family tree. Always doing peasant or planter genealogy? If so, need to do different types of research. Develop a talk on something you are an expert in and approach your local history society.

Network. Introduce yourself to anyone and everyone in the Irish genealogy world. Referrals lead to business.

Remember, you have to do all the crappy business stuff too: taxes, admin, customer service, etc.

I learned this one very early: charge for everything you do (well, have some place where you will help people, e.g. on here, a coupe of hours a week/month volunteering somewhere). But remember, you run a business and need to pay your bills. ALWAYS get payment in advance.

Eventually, you just have to throw yourself into it. Good luck if you take the plunge!

Hermy

Thanks again for the feedback everyone.

I attended a talk in Dublin yesterday given by APGI and, as with the comments above, I'm left with mixed feelings about genealogy as a career. For one thing, one would most likely be self-employed which is not something that appeals to me just now. And perhaps it might leave me with no time or energy for my own research. On the face of it working as a genealogist sounds like a great idea but faced with the commercial reality perhaps for now I'm better off keep it as a hobby.

I would like to get more involved generally, whether through attending talks or courses, or assisting in transcribing records. I recently helped out in a graveyard survey in Tang, Co. Westmeath for HistoricGraves.com which was fascinating. There's not much in the way of courses down this neck of the woods (Carrick-on-Shannon) but I might see what's available online.

KildareFan

Hi Hermy

Hope you get fixed up soon. Maybe think of working for the genealogy/archive companies?

Ancestry.com has offices in Ireland and are looking for staff in various areas.

Findmypast has an Irish office as well, but they're not currently looking for staff - they give an email address on their site to enquire about jobs.

L1011

I think FMP's "offices" here are Eneclann providing customer support for them rather than them directly.

Alicat

pinkypinky wrote: »

Well, I did Sean Murphy's 3 year course in UCD and found it very good.

CIGO has a list of courses http://www.cigo.ie/courses.html (which, full admission, includes my own class!)

There are plenty of genealogists out there with no formal training, as it has only existed in limited form for about 15 years.

I've been toying with the idea of that UCD course. What kind of job prospects have you come across with that Level 7 qualification Pinky? I wouldn't want to do it if the end result was 'just' doing genealogical searches for singular clients, but if it opened up other doors, it could be worthwhile for me.

pinkypinky

Apart from commissioned research, there wouldn't be a whole lot of jobs in genealogy. I have very occasionally seen Eneclann advertise positions but they have always been marketing/finance or similar. Ancestry has an office in Dublin but they don't do any research there.

I have gotten some work through the NLI, which might not have been possible without the course. I feel it's worth it in its own right to say "I have the best accredited qualification in my subject in Ireland".

Jellybaby1

Best thing about working as a genealogist is that there is no retirement age! I am also fed up of not having a job but I can't realistically see myself getting back into the workplace. I am an amateur genealogist only because nobody has placed any tenners into my hand! Because of that I just do the bare minimum for my friends.

conorh91

Hermy wrote: »

Thanks for the responses guys - very helpful.
Just getting a bit fed up with unemployment and thinking how it would be nice to earn a living doing something genealogical - something I actually care about - rather than looking to the usual humdrum jobs. But perhaps I should just continue to pursue it as a hobby for now lest I get sick of the sight of family trees!

If you're unemployed, why not consider something like this?

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Enterprise-Allowance-Self-Employed.aspx

If genealogy is your passion, then now is probably a good time to market your skills to international visitors, in particular.

What have you got to lose?

From what I can gather, many of the independent genealogists seem to be a dead loss when it comes to marketing. They're not online, they don't often use twitter or Facebook. In fact, they usually don't market themselves at all.

If I were looking to start a one-man enterprise beyond my current profession, a well-marketed genealogy business would be near the top of the list.

Hermy

conorh91 wrote: »

...many of the independent genealogists seem to be a dead loss when it comes to marketing...

I think that might be my problem right there Conor.:o
The research is what interests me - I'd be a bit daunted by the business end of things.
But thanks for the suggestion all the same.