Joule solar with deltasol C controller

AstraMonti

Has any of you guys experience with this system? I noticed today that the pump icon is flashing on the controller, downloaded the manual and it says that it should be flashing when it's initializing. The whole system is 15 months old and I can honestly say I never paid too much attention so I am not sure how long this icon has been flashing. I went in the config menu and everything has been left completely default by the installer.

There is one collector on the roof Joule acappela and the rest of the system is beside the boiler.

richieburke01

AstraMonti wrote: »

Has any of you guys experience with this system? I noticed today that the pump icon is flashing on the controller, downloaded the manual and it says that it should be flashing when it's initializing. The whole system is 15 months old and I can honestly say I never paid too much attention so I am not sure how long this icon has been flashing. I went in the config menu and everything has been left completely default by the installer.

There is one collector on the roof Joule acappela and the rest of the system is beside the boiler.

Pressure looks ok
Picture of clock??
Did you try and turn on pump take it off auto

AstraMonti

richieburke01 wrote: »

Pressure looks ok
Picture of clock??
Did you try and turn on pump take it off auto

Is this what you mean by clock?



How do I change the pump mode between on and auto?

richieburke01

AstraMonti wrote: »

Is this what you mean by clock?



How do I change the pump mode between on and auto?

Press and hold down the scroll forward button
Until you see HDN1 -auto
Press middle button which is set and auto will start flashing press scroll to change this to on
If pump is not running the pump might be broken
You might have an airlock as well

AstraMonti

Thanks I ll try that and see if the icon stops flashing. The pump works, we have loads of hot water from the panels. I assume it wouldn't work at all if the pump was dead?

richieburke01

AstraMonti wrote: »

Thanks I ll try that and see if the icon stops flashing. The pump works, we have loads of hot water from the panels. I assume it wouldn't work at all if the pump was dead?

If the pump is flashing that means there is a demand for the pump
There might not be anything wrong

richieburke01

It is suppose to be on auto
That is just to check flow rates and the pump is working

AstraMonti

richieburke01 wrote: »

If the pump is flashing that means there is a demand for the pump
There might not be anything wrong

Ah! If that's the reason then during the night it should be stopping, right? Thanks again for your help.

shane 007

If the bottom of the cylinder reached temperature, the pump would not be called. This would lead to high panel temp & above 135C would not allow the pump to come back on until this temp fell below 135C.
Then you use hot water lowering the bottom cylinder temp but panel will still not send down temps above 135C.
Once it cools, it's fine again. This might be the scenario.

richieburke01

AstraMonti wrote: »

Ah! If that's the reason then during the night it should be stopping, right? Thanks again for your help.

Spot on unless frost protection is on
Then it might come on now and then if it gets really cold at night but it shouldn't run all night

AstraMonti

You were correct sir, it flashes when it's in use. The icon stopped flashing during the night.

Is there anything else I should change in the settings? Asking because everything was left at default. Thanks again!

freddyuk

A flashing pump symbol suggests the pump is running which is good!
If a simple heat dump was installed it would prevent potential damage to the system as Shane has outlined as there is nowhere for the heat to go so it will turn off the pump and stagnate until something gives. Then you have to refill/replace the fluids. I can guarantee there is no catch tank so any overflow will empty over your floor?
My observation is this is a very expensive way to heat your hotpress as not single piece of insulation to be seen! Just a lazy installer. However it does assist with dumping heat !!

richieburke01

AstraMonti wrote: »

You were correct sir, it flashes when it's in use. The icon stopped flashing during the night.

Is there anything else I should change in the settings? Asking because everything was left at default. Thanks again!

You could turn on frost protection if you wanted

AstraMonti

freddyuk wrote: »

A flashing pump symbol suggests the pump is running which is good!
If a simple heat dump was installed it would prevent potential damage to the system as Shane has outlined as there is nowhere for the heat to go so it will turn off the pump and stagnate until something gives. Then you have to refill/replace the fluids. I can guarantee there is no catch tank so any overflow will empty over your floor?
My observation is this is a very expensive way to heat your hotpress as not single piece of insulation to be seen! Just a lazy installer. However it does assist with dumping heat !!

I ll reserve my comments on the installers as I would be cursing all day. Anyway, what are the two small tanks beside and under the solar system in the first pic? I thought the right one was for the overflow? Also can you please elaborate on the insulation? If there is something I can do to improve it I ll happily do it!

AstraMonti

richieburke01 wrote: »

You could turn on frost protection if you wanted

And do I have to turn it back on when winter approaches? Thanks all and sorry for the many questions.

freddyuk

AstraMonti wrote: »

I ll reserve my comments on the installers as I would be cursing all day. Anyway, what are the two small tanks beside and under the solar system in the first pic? I thought the right one was for the overflow? Also can you please elaborate on the insulation? If there is something I can do to improve it I ll happily do it!

You need the pipework insulated all the way from the solar collector to the cylinder otherwise you are wasting energy. (including the bit from under the roof tiles into the attic space.) You must use heat resistant insulation as the temperatures will melt ordinary foam insulation. (so do not do this on a sunny day). You can buy lengths of insulation from any decent supplier. (PM me if you get stuck). It should be zip tied onto the pipes.
The white vessels are expansion vessels so the solar system has the one on the left. As the fluid heats up in the pipework it expands and this vessel takes up the expansion so nothing bursts under the pressure. If the system stagnates the volume of this vessel may not be enough and the fluid/steam will escape through the safety valve which has the red knob. The "scalding" fluid is collected in a catch tank which we cannot see.
I cannot see how that white vessel is supported but it should not be hanging off a bit of pipe it should be on a bracket.
The other vessel is presumably your boiler system which serves the same purpose on that system but I cannot confirm that without seeing the rest of the pipework. Not sure how it is supported. Maybe just strapped to the overflow pipe or the overflow pipe is strapped to it.??

AstraMonti

Many thanks for your detailed response. The vessels are strapped onto the wall with screws. Just to confirm, all the copper piping should be insulated? And will be this be heat resistant insulation or I should be looking at something else? And last, most of the solar pipes are covered in a black plastic casing of some sort (i think it might be insulation), I ll take maybe some pics later.

Thanks again guys.

freddyuk

The shiny black covering is to protect the insulation from birds etc. This is OK if there are no gaps. All bare pipes should be insulated unless you want to heat the space the pipes are in so yes insulate everything. All the solar circuit needs high temperature and the rest can be ordinary foam. A lot of heat is lost from the cylinder via pipes and the fittings. It is a fiddly job to do it properly (which is why some plumbers just can't be bothered) but then they are not paying the heating bills. You need to mitre the insulation and secure it round bends and fittings. You might need larger diameter foam for fittings or cut sections and stick them around the fittings ensuring no gaps. Then all your hard earned heat goes into the water.

AstraMonti

Another question... Today which is probably the hottest we had, around 3-4pm the collector reached 180C and I could see the pump not running, couple of hours later everything was ok. Is that behaviour "normal"?

freddyuk

If your cylinder gets to maximum temperature it will switch off the pump thus the collector will go into stagnation. Very bad for the system components and fluid.
You can increase the temperature of the stored water to accept more heat from the collector thus delaying the stagnation point. It is important to have safety features in place to avoid potential scalding from very hot water which is why controllers normally max out at 65c.
You can run off (use) some hot water to bring the cylinder temperature down.
You can have a larger cylinder.
Of course if you have a simple bypass then the system will cool itself down and prevent any stress to the system.

DAT64

freddyuk wrote: »

If your cylinder gets to maximum temperature it will switch off the pump thus the collector will go into stagnation. Very bad for the system components and fluid.
You can increase the temperature of the stored water to accept more heat from the collector thus delaying the stagnation point. It is important to have safety features in place to avoid potential scalding from very hot water which is why controllers normally max out at 65c.
You can run off (use) some hot water to bring the cylinder temperature down.
You can have a larger cylinder.
Of course if you have a simple bypass then the system will cool itself down and prevent any stress to the system.

Hey, can I piggyback on this thread.
Our solar joule system overheated last wk, due to high temps & not enough water being used. Water damage to ceiling & walls because our relief valve released water when cylinder got too hot. Temp set to 70 it went close to 90. The relief valve wasn't connected to anything hence the damage. Pic attached shows the pipe my OH put in day after with temp green tank in case it happens again.
It is a new build, we bought them from a company who also installed them, few questions:

Who should have advised us to connect a heat dump/overflow plumber or solar company? We were/are clueless to anything plumbing.
What preventative methods can we take going forward?
Thanks
D

freddyuk

It's an illegal installation so your developer or selling agency would be liable. I suggest you contact them as I would consider this a danger to anyone in the vicinity. If the replacement catch tank and pipe is heat proof it will prevent further damage temporarily but the valve needs to be terminated outside the property unless the regs. in Ireland are that lax. In the UK this installation required building control approval as it is a potential bomb if incorrectly installed.
Also your pipes need lagging unless you are happy to heat that space 100% of the time.
Someone will be along to confirm the regs.

In UK it is thus:


In an unvented system you will be storing a large volume of hot water under pressure. For reasons of safety such systems must be installed by qualified technicians with relevant experience, CITB training and G3 certification.

As a precaution, pressure-relief pipework and valves must be installed to protect against unsafe pressure build-up within the vessel which could result in explosion. Pipework to vent outside the building.

Your Local Authority (Building Control Dept) will need to be advised of your intention to install an unvented system.

For reasons of safety, your system will require annual maintenance to ensure safety equipment is functioning correctly (BS2870).

An unvented system must be commissioned and certified by the installer.



As for the solar system you need a heat dump circuit to take away the excess heat (or run a hot bath). If the plastic on top of the cylinder container for that expansion pipe is not heat proof you will have the same problem there as it may melt if super hot water is expelled from the solar system. You should ensure the system does not stagnate to avoid possible damage to it.

I would speak to your solar installer and explain your system has exceeded the capacity of the cylinder.

tedh1004

Hi, I also have blinking pump symbol on Joule Solar Panel control should this pump symbol be blinking all the time even at night? Thanks for any advice on how to fix this.

tedh1004

Hi, I am having the same problem with the pump symbol blinking all the time and the pump staying on constantly all day and all night. I have done what you did and the HDN1 - is set
at AUTO but symbol still blinking and pump staying all the time even over night. Also the temperature at the bottom of the cylinder is always only 2 or 3 degrees lower than the temp at top of the cylinder and the water never get more than tepid. Has anyone any ideas or does could any recommend someone experienced with the Joule Solar Panel system in the Dubin area? Thanks

freddyuk

freddyuk wrote: »

It's an illegal installation so your developer or selling agency would be liable. I suggest you contact them as I would consider this a danger to anyone in the vicinity. If the replacement catch tank and pipe is heat proof it will prevent further damage temporarily but the valve needs to be terminated outside the property unless the regs. in Ireland are that lax. In the UK this installation required building control approval as it is a potential bomb if incorrectly installed.
Also your pipes need lagging unless you are happy to heat that space 100% of the time.
Someone will be along to confirm the regs.

In UK it is thus:


In an unvented system you will be storing a large volume of hot water under pressure. For reasons of safety such systems must be installed by qualified technicians with relevant experience, CITB training and G3 certification.

As a precaution, pressure-relief pipework and valves must be installed to protect against unsafe pressure build-up within the vessel which could result in explosion. Pipework to vent outside the building.

Your Local Authority (Building Control Dept) will need to be advised of your intention to install an unvented system.

For reasons of safety, your system will require annual maintenance to ensure safety equipment is functioning correctly (BS2870).

An unvented system must be commissioned and certified by the installer.



As for the solar system you need a heat dump circuit to take away the excess heat (or run a hot bath). If the plastic on top of the cylinder container for that expansion pipe is not heat proof you will have the same problem there as it may melt if super hot water is expelled from the solar system. You should ensure the system does not stagnate to avoid possible damage to it.

I would speak to your solar installer and explain your system has exceeded the capacity of the cylinder.

Err.. No unvented regs in Ireland so there no limit to the amount of silliness out there , G3 is used but after the fact to help prosecute or sue the installer.

ccsolar

tedh1004 wrote: »

Hi, I am having the same problem with the pump symbol blinking all the time and the pump staying on constantly all day and all night. I have done what you did and the HDN1 - is set
at AUTO but symbol still blinking and pump staying all the time even over night. Also the temperature at the bottom of the cylinder is always only 2 or 3 degrees lower than the temp at top of the cylinder and the water never get more than tepid. Has anyone any ideas or does could any recommend someone experienced with the Joule Solar Panel system in the Dubin area? Thanks

Hi
Check the location of your T2 sensor
Sometimes the installers fit this sensor too close to the bottom of the tank, everytime you run a hot tap cold water enters the bottom of the tank and gives a false reading to the solar controller bringing on the pump

When you remove the sensor from its pocket on the tank stick it into a cup of hot water and check if the pump stops.
If the pump still keeps running then the power supply to the pump is connected wrong
Pump should be connected to number 18 (Live) 15 (Neutral)
Terminal R1
Hope this helps
Cc

ccsolar

DAT64 wrote: »

Hey, can I piggyback on this thread.
Our solar joule system overheated last wk, due to high temps & not enough water being used. Water damage to ceiling & walls because our relief valve released water when cylinder got too hot. Temp set to 70 it went close to 90. The relief valve wasn't connected to anything hence the damage. Pic attached shows the pipe my OH put in day after with temp green tank in case it happens again.
It is a new build, we bought them from a company who also installed them, few questions:

Who should have advised us to connect a heat dump/overflow plumber or solar company? We were/are clueless to anything plumbing.
What preventative methods can we take going forward?
Thanks
D

Hi
Just had a look at the photo and who ever installed the tank should have connected the pressure/temperature release valve to a drain off leading to an outside gully.
The temporary measure your OH installed will help but remember that the majority of water coming out this valve will be 90+ degrees ,(Steam) it will cover your hotpress in water again.
I also notice that no Anti- Scald valve has been fitted, very dangerous...
The plastic container on top of the tank to catch the pressure release fluid from the solar controller is fine but now has liquid in it from the solar system, has the pressure within the solar system dropped?
Check it after dark or early morning for an accurate reading it should be around 2 bar.
Low or no pressure means that the system is empty of glycol and will result in your pumping station been damaged and or poor performance from the solar.
Cc

tedh1004

Thanks for that but now I am looking to enquire if anyone could recommend a solar panel installer who is familiar with the Joule Controls with a Grundfos pump. I have had two solar installers look at this who both made some minor changes but it is still not working correctly at all so really need someone who knows what they are doing. Thanks again.

Keith C

Wondering if anyone can help my joule clock is flashing ! And col temp is 192.5c tst 18.8' s3 36.4' it's not heating the water given the sun we've had last few days. Any thoughts???
Did have a plumber rebalance heating system in Jan, is it possible he knocked something off in hot press where cylinder is? The solar tank is in attic.

themossinator

Have the same system as this - lately have noticed that the system is not operating - the pump is being called as the icon is flashing, however there is no flow on the sight glass even though the pump appears to be running and is really hot to the touch. The pressure gauge, which is on the return pipe from the panels, is not reading any pressure

anyone got any ideas on something I can try to do before I get someone out to look at it? thanks

AstraMonti

themossinator wrote: »

Have the same system as this - lately have noticed that the system is not operating - the pump is being called as the icon is flashing, however there is no flow on the sight glass even though the pump appears to be running and is really hot to the touch. The pressure gauge, which is on the return pipe from the panels, is not reading any pressure

anyone got any ideas on something I can try to do before I get someone out to look at it? thanks

Probably needs servicing, aka refiling.