is she right or wrong

LegacyUser

Hi I have been separated now for 3 years.For two of these years life was very tough problems with ex and the banks.As of now i have two houses one i live in and the other my ex lives in.I was responsible for the two mortgages so i was under a lot of pressure.In that period i met a lovely girl with kids and we started to go out,she is a lovely person and we really get on together.One day in my house the idea of us living together came up and i said i would move in as i was going bankrupt on both houses and losing everything.So we set a date this summer i would move in.
Fast forward last month the bank contacts me and helps me come up with an arrangement
to save both houses.But obviously they cant be rented out or sold during the term or things will change.When i told girlfriend that i can no longer move in she got very angry accusing me of using her when i was stuck.Now i feel rotten i tried to explain that if i move in with her i could lose everything my home and the home my daughter lives in.Is she right i know if it was the other way around i would accept it no bother.How can you expect the other person to risk losing everything.
My girlfriend lives a 60 min drive away and is now expecting me out every day as she has two young kids its impractical for her to come to me.I want to keep it going meeting up once or twice a week as i still really like her but she comes up with your happy now that u have your own house if i opt to stay at home for one day.Im really getting tired of this but im feeling very guilty any ideas..

Magicmatilda

I'd imagine the problem is that she saw you moving in as the next step in your relationship and a big commintment to each other but you saw it as an answer to your financial problems.You see you moving in with her would have made you all a new family - you, her children and your daughter. But that is not happening now, because you have pulled back (with reason but her feelings don't care about your reasons, emotions are not logical). I would imagine this woman has been hurt in the past by a man who left (or maybe she left, but either way she has probably been hurt). She has dreamed of a future for you two, you coming in from work, waking up together on Sat mornings, cuddling up in front of the TV in the evenings, getting in to bed together every night. That was becoming a reality and now suddenly, because of a bank that is gone.

Have you suggested that she come and live with you? Why not?

When do you intend to start living together, in light of this?

Why do you need to keep your two houses if you are moving in with her? Does she not also have a house?

Ultimately you either see this relationship as your future family or you do not. If you do then you need to start making plans to move in together, if you do not then you need to be honest and tell her that. It doesn't make you a bad person not to want to move in but you need to tell her that you just want to be boyfriend/girlfriend rather than partners.

Alf. A. Male

I have no idea if there are factors which might undermine this suggestion, but why not ask her to move into your home?

Boombastic

you went from wanting to move in with her (when you though you might need a place to live) to only wanting to see her once or twice a week (when you didn't need a place to live)


sounds to me like you were using her

She's disappointed, but she doesn't seem to be very understanding or compassionate for your situation either. Both of those things are nice qualities as is the ability to compromise. Talk to her about a time scale. If you have any idea of when you might be out of the woods, put it to her that your circumstances will change then.

If she'd prefer you to lose everything to move in with her, ask yourself if she's really life-partner material.

CaraMay

The issue here is that you still just 'really like' her. Where is the love? I can see both sides but you really shouldn't be talking about moving in with a family if you just like your partner

Lou.m

feeling guilty wrote: »

Hi I have been separated now for 3 years.For two of these years life was very tough problems with ex and the banks.As of now i have two houses one i live in and the other my ex lives in.I was responsible for the two mortgages so i was under a lot of pressure.In that period i met a lovely girl with kids and we started to go out,she is a lovely person and we really get on together.One day in my house the idea of us living together came up and i said i would move in as i was going bankrupt on both houses and losing everything.So we set a date this summer i would move in.
Fast forward last month the bank contacts me and helps me come up with an arrangement
to save both houses.But obviously they cant be rented out or sold during the term or things will change.When i told girlfriend that i can no longer move in she got very angry accusing me of using her when i was stuck.Now i feel rotten i tried to explain that if i move in with her i could lose everything my home and the home my daughter lives in.Is she right i know if it was the other way around i would accept it no bother.How can you expect the other person to risk losing everything.
My girlfriend lives a 60 min drive away and is now expecting me out every day as she has two young kids its impractical for her to come to me.I want to keep it going meeting up once or twice a week as i still really like her but she comes up with your happy now that u have your own house if i opt to stay at home for one day.Im really getting tired of this but im feeling very guilty any ideas..

I would understand personally that you are financially constrained. And accept that this is what you need to do.

However this is what you did wrong. You made a commitment that was not concrete. You made a serious commitment to this woman and you should not have so soon unless you were absolutely certain.

You seem to also say you were going to move in partially because you were losing money on both houses.

You did use her. But she should also understand that you are in an extreme financial situation.

By the way were you just going to move into her house? It sounds convenient for someone losing money on theirs.

And you go from wanting to move in to her house because you are losing money to only wanting to see her once a week?? And I presume it's a conjugal visit?

This is how I see it. You made a commitment based on your financial needs and not emotional needs. You didn't need her and you together living in her house, you needed her house. You didn't need a life together. If you needed a life together you would build one in another way.

I would say she should understand that you need to look after your commitments. But you should never have fed the fantasy when you knew in your heart you were only doing it if it were financially beneficial.

It seems that now you are seeing her less (were you visiting more before?).

You knew she lived 60 mins away and had kids when you started this.

If she needs to accept you have financial commitments then you need to accept she has commitments and you both must make an effort.

If you don't want to be with her break up with her and if you want her make a life of some sort with her.

In short ...you are both wrong.

meeeeh

It's one of the dreadful situations when external factors can have a lot more influence on relationship than the feelings people have for each other. However you do have to ask yourself would you move in if there were no financial problems. And if yes, is there any option for her moving in with you? It might be also worth talking to some kind of financial adviser regarding the agreement with the bank. That is if you think the relationship is going somewhere.

If you just "like" her then I think you should break up. She is probably looking for a stable relationship where kids see the same person all the time. 60km travel in one direction is also very expensive and if you almost went bankrupt then you probably can't afford to do it every day.

I don't think any of you is particularly wrong but you were acting and planing as people without too many commitments and you can't do that anymore. I also don't think it is about who is right or wrong, it is about weather you can come to a workable solution and commuting every day or even only twice per week doesn't seem very good solution to me.

LegacyUser

In answer to your questions her moving in with me is a complete no no.my house is only a two bed while hers is a four bed.Some of you said I used this girl ..I dont know !!!!If it wasnt for the deal with the banks yes I would move in but now its different. If they ever found out the house was rented they could start proceedings to repossess and that could happen to the house my daughter is in.To be quiet honest i feel shiiite...
To be truthful this is a 30 year deal with the bank so it will be a long time before im out of woods.

Boombastic

feeling guilty wrote: »

In answer to your questions her moving in with me is a complete no no.my house is only a two bed while hers is a four bed.Some of you said I used this girl ..I dont know !!!!If it wasnt for the deal with the banks yes I would move in but now its different. If they ever found out the house was rented they could start proceedings to repossess and that could happen to the house my daughter is in.To be quiet honest i feel shiiite...
To be truthful this is a 30 year deal with the bank so it will be a long time before im out of woods.

so do you expect her to be content seeing you once or twice a week for the next 30 years because you want 2 houses ?

Penny Tration

No possibility of coming to a deal with the bank where you sell your place and transfer any negative equity to your other place?

You can't expect her to see you once or twice a week for the rest of your lives.

LegacyUser

QUOTE Boombasticso do you expect her to be content seeing you once or twice a week for the next 30 years because you want 2 houses ?

Exactly it's ridiculous.
You need to tell this woman that this is where your stuck and perhaps consider that you have made a commitment in life that negates a relationship with her.

You maybe need to consider ending it or letting her end it.


Your life is not set up for this relationship. And you need to let her find someone else.

LegacyUser

If a woman had done what you did she would labelled a gold digger.

You wanted to more into her house when it suited your financial needs and now that your financial needs are better net another way you don't want to see her as much.

You keep portraying yourself as feeling so guilty in an effort to make it look better.

You escalated the amount of interest you had in her when she might provide a nest and then your interest fizzled from a huge life commitment to seeing her once a week. The only thing more committed to moving in together is marriage or having a child. It is that serious a commitment. You went from that to seeing her a couple of times a week. That is a huge difference in interest on your part.

Why did you suggest moving in with her in the first place?

LegacyUser

Have any of you here actually dealt with banks when in arrears ..listen to me when i say i dont have options of transfering debt or selling houses ..im in over 200,000 negative equity..im not refusing to move in because i want to keep two houses i wish i could get rid and walk away..but i cant ...i have been given one option take it or repossession ..if they find out im not living there i dont have primary residence cover and house will be repossessed and a outstanding loan of 200,000 put against me..and i didnt ask to move in it was brought up by her..

m'lady

As other posters have already said, this girl thought you both were progressing in your relationship, you looked at it as a solution to your financial needs- now you don't need to move in and you expect her to say 'ok then'?

What do you think is a solution in this situation OP?

December2012

But in her head part of the reason of you moving in with her was because you were going to move forward with your relationship, you were going to be a stepfather to her kids.

And now because it does not suit you financially, you aren't going to go through with it. And she's hurt and rejected and wondering how much she and her kids mean to you.

It does not mean you are wrong to take the banks deal, but I'm guessing you made this decision to accept and then told her about it instead of discussing it with her.

Which suggests that your relationship was not naturally moving towards the living together stage, but was a happy coincidence instead.

You were going to use her.

I think you should apologise to her for making her feel bad, but really, before you make any more commitments you need to seriously think about what you both want and if it's the same thing.

GreeBo

Op why not let the bank repossess one of them, is it worth your life being on hold for the foreseeable future?

LegacyUser

I think I can see both sides a little bit, and they are something like this.

You seemed to be ready to commit to your girlfriend until

(her point of view): It became financially inconvenient to you.

(your point of view): It became financially ruinous to you AND might affect your daughter.

There are communication errors going on here. But for sure, your girlfriend sees this as a huge thing in your relationship; she thought things was going to move on, but now they're not going to. Maybe she also feels threatened by the bond you still have with your daughter. This could be difficult to get around. To your girlfriend, it must really look like you are putting your financial situation and your previous family ahead of her. Well... you are. I'm not saying you're wrong. You're stuck in a crappy place. But it probably does make her feel like second or third best in your life.

Maybe you should sit down with your girlfriend and try to work out something that will suit both of you - or at least, something that will at least make you feel that you are working together on a solution.

LegacyUser

I have read all the posts and I accept every ones point of view.I have been awake all night because i do feel crap.I feel for her and her kids because I do love her.She is a lovely brilliant person and was there for me when i really needed someone.There is no correct answer for this
after getting legal advice if i mess around with the banks yes i am facing financial ruin.I'm not as young as all the other posters im nearly 50 i cant rebuild my life.I have to put my daughter first and make sure she has a good home and financially secure future.Im not sure has anyone here been under pressure with debt here in this country its not pretty.To the poster that said let them repossess the house.Will how do they propose i pay back the outstanding 150,000
...Go bankrupt !!! How can I risk that..If the the shoe was on the other foot would i ask her to risk all that, her family home and all savings her kids future no not at all.
sometimes things in life arent all black and white ,right or wrong...This seems like a mean decision,but I know its the right one for me and my daughter.

Tasden

Tbh op I really feel for you.
And that doesn't mean I don't see it from your partners perspective, I do.

I'm in a position with my partner where we would like to begin taking further steps in our relationship- maybe not moving in quite yet but talking about future plans etc- but because of our separate circumstances with our children and their respective parents its not really feasible, if anything for now it just has to be on a day to day basis and future plans are an abstract idea as opposed to concrete plans atm.

In your case your circumstances changed and an ideal solution was to move in with her, it suited everyone because not only was it somewhere to live but it also meant that you were finally in a position to take that next step too. Now your circumstances have changed and its no longer a solution to move in with her but it now means that taking that step in your relationship will put you in an even worse position regarding the houses and bank.

You are obviously concerned about the impact any decisions you make will have on your child and yourself, and she feels the same about herself and her children. Plus ye both want to begin life as a family together too. You are both responsible for your respective children and the decisions you make on their behalf and its not a case of prioritising your own child or caring more for them than hers but every person will make their decisions based on their family circumstances, its just how it is, it doesn't mean you don't care about her children and their future with you but its your family and its your responsibility to act in their best interests. Which is why she is now feeling as she does because she has concerns for her children's future now and her own. She's doing what you're doing- trying to make the best decisions for her family, which she believed was to start living as a family together. So now ye are in a situation where ye are both trying to fight for what you believe is best for the family (as a blended family together but also as separate families as well). In this case though the decision to move in with her will be more detrimental to your child than it will be to hers if you don't move in. And that's kind of the main thing here- the kids- it doesn't really matter how much ye love each other or what ye want as a couple, that's secondary to what's best for the children all round. She might believe that the stability her kids would have had from living together as a family is more important than the stability your child would have from you keeping the houses. That's her prerogative as their mam and of course she wants best for them that's understandable if that is why she is angry. And of course she's upset about not taking the relationship further but that's always going to be secondary to the kids.

What exactly are your plans long term if you do stay in the house?
Will you ever be in a position to move in with her?
Will she ever be in a position to move in to yours- how old are the kids?

If its a case of you never moving in with her then I can't blame her for having concerns tbh, especially since you guys were so close to starting your life together as a family, and I can understand that she is disappointed about it and upset. I suppose it depends on what ye plan to do long term.

Long post- sorry!

stickybookmark

OP this deal that you have signed up to with the bank for the next 30 years seems crazy....so basically given you said you are nearly 50 and given average life expectancy you have signed up a deal with the bank that says you must live in a 2 bedroom apartment for the rest of your life?!

That's crazy....

How about you move in with your girlfriend and just leave your flat idle? It's no skin off the bank's nose surely, as long as you are paying the restructured mortgages on both houses, why would they care if you live in your flat or not?

You'll obviously have to explain to your gf the situation you are in financially and that you might not be able to contribute rent/mortgage to her house even though you are living there, but if she's ok with that then what's the issue?

Tasden

stickybookmark wrote: »

OP this deal that you have signed up to with the bank for the next 30 years seems crazy....so basically given you said you are nearly 50 and given average life expectancy you have signed up a deal with the bank that says you must live in a 2 bedroom apartment for the rest of your life?!

That's crazy....

How about you move in with your girlfriend and just leave your flat idle? It's no skin off the bank's nose surely, as long as you are paying the restructured mortgages on both houses, why would they care if you live in your flat or not?

You'll obviously have to explain to your gf the situation you are in financially and that you might not be able to contribute rent/mortgage to her house even though you are living there, but if she's ok with that then what's the issue?

I'm assuming the deal is based on it being his primary residence in which case he has to be living in it, could be wrong though

Riskymove

i don't get it

why not just keep paying for the apartment but actually live with your other half

what would be the problem?

stickybookmark

Tasden wrote: »

I'm assuming the deal is based on it being his primary residence in which case he has to be living in it, could be wrong though

But why would a bank know or care where you hang up your hat at the end of the night? What are they going to do, keep watch outside his flat to prove he's sleeping there?!

December2012

Banks do care! And you need to stick by the agreed terms.

Can you talk this out with your girlfriend? Listen to her, and try and understand how she feels and why she feels it (I think you're trying to do this by posting here, which is good, but the only one who knows how she feels is her).

And try and get her to understand the position you're in.

stickybookmark

But a bank saying it's your primary residence just means you aren't allowed to rent it out right?
I thought that only affected things like stamp duty anyway. The bank have agreed a restructuring deal with OP whereby he has to pay off both mortgages. As long as he meets his monthly payments, and doesn't rent out his flat then what's wrong with him staying in his girlfriend's house every night? I don't see how it affects the bank in the slightest as long as they are getting paid.

OP by the way I think it is admirable that you are facing up to your debts and paying them off and not going bankrupt, I also think it's admirable that you are making serious financial sacrifices to keep the family home for your daughter. However I would also say think of your own life and happiness. You're nearly 50 you said, it's great that you met somebody new (not easy at any age) and the prospect of living alone in 2 bedroom flat doesn't appeal a whole lot I would imagine when you could potentially have a happy life in a new family home instead.

Riskymove

December2012 wrote: »

Banks do care! And you need to stick by the agreed terms.

why would the bank care if the guy lived in the apartment...how would they even know?

Tiddlypeeps

I'm pretty ignorant of banking policies and mortgages but I can't see any logical reason the bank would disallow you from renting the apartment. Surely that would just mean they are more likely to get their repayments. There must be some agreement you can reach with them on this. Banks hate repossessing houses, it's a lose/lose situation, you renting the place out would be win/win so there must be away to talk them around to allowing that.

Magicmatilda

It seems to be that you have come to an agreement with the banks that means that you can never live with your girlfriend or at least not for about 15 years (assuming her youngest is 3). Not alone that but you have to remain living in a 2 bed place for the next 30 years so you will not be able to move in with anyone who has kids for the next 30 years. Regardless of your relationship that is madness.

You do have an option - you could declare bankrupty and be out of it in 3 years. Yes it is drastic but given the choices it is what i would do. You daughter may indeed have to move but I think if in years to come you explained the situation to her she would understand. What age is your daughter by the way? Does you ex contribute to the mortgage of her house? could she take on the full mortgage? I'm sure that option has been looked at, but I can't for the life of me understand how this option is better than you daughter having to move because lots of children move and yes it is hard but the deal with it. I myself moved when I was 11. I do't suggest that to keep your girlfriend happy, but for your own well being. It just sounds like a lifetime of stress.

You have chosen to limit your options so much and for so many years that the stress of it may very well kill you. How in God's name are you going to pay these mortgages when you are nearly 80? and what if prices increase that you can see at a gain - can you still not sell?

This "deal" just sounds completely crazy to me, irrespective of any girlfriends.

Lou.m

You became responsible to a house. You had a child ...that relationship ended ..you then became responsible for another house, .

Your finances became so bad (pretty reckless)you risked losing the house your child lived in. You considered selling as you were losing money and moving in with a girlfriend and her two kids.

You made commitment after commitment and show inability to live up to them habitually. First house that is the home your child lives in becomes at risk as well as your own home. You say you will start a life with your new partner you break that commitment.

Then you stop seeing this lady as often. Another broken commitment.

It looks to me like you have a habit of getting in over your head and not thinking things through OP.

You need to grow up and face reality.

You don't seem to have a handle on things. I would get financial advice. And consider that you might be better off single you need to concentrate on getting stable and getting things sorted.

But really get financial advice and don't make commitments like that again.

Did you ever think that you were going to move in with her kids? That is a commitment to be there. You cannot go in and out of children's lives. I wager you spend time with them too and they will wonder why you are not coming to visit as much. Your relationship affects them.

If you are not ready for commitment don't make it.

You really need to get your properties sorted and make sure your daughter is ok . Finish that commitment first. But get professional advice because the deal seems impractical.

Tiddlypeeps

Have you sought out any professional financial advice other than from the bank?

Mabs is a free service that can offer advice on your situation, if you haven't already it would be worth giving them a shout just to get a different perspective on your options. https://www.mabs.ie/about-mabs/