Mod Feedback

MilanPan!c

Hello everyone

I have had a few issues recently which are both aggravating as a user, and which I think deserve to be noted publicly in the the hope it encourages better - from my perspective at least - moderation.

My issues, in chronological order:

Many of you are aware that Adverts.ie - which sprung out of Boards, and which has a hosted forum on Boards - recently changed it's policies.

The MAIN issue I have with their new policies is that it finally closes a VERY OPEN loophole - multi-item adverts - which render it useless for many many people. My issue is NOT with the fee, but with the fact that I CAN NOT use Adverts for my sales any more. The same goes for many users.

I was having a discussion with many users on a thread, which I can not link to as I've been banned from that forum - more on that later - when one of the mods decided to state that all the people complaining were basically cheapskates and were whinging because of the fee.

This was/is completely untrue and he'd even responded to people that said they had no issue with the fee.

I felt this was both counter-productive and dishonest, his accusation, and said as much. He never responded, though others liked it and commented on it, and though he was active in the thread at the time.

A few pages later, I was joking, a bit of banter, that the new "adverts credits" which they're offering instead of cash refunds, were actually an attempt by adverts to create an alternative currency, to take on the Euro.



Pretty silly, but clearly, clearly a joke.

I was then given a warning, by the mod I'd interacted with earlier in the thread, who said that anyone complaining was just a whinging cheapskate...

The reason I was warned is astonishing!



The mod was claiming to Boards, that I, and the OTHER user, had ACCUSED Adverts of trying to set up a currency to take on the EURO, and that baseless accusation was worth an official warning.

?!?!?

Talk about confusing.

So I did what many people did, I contacted the mod to clarify the issue. Here's the entirety of that clarification.



Ok, now ... at this point... I should've gone an made an official complaint, as obviously joking and banter is not against any rule, and lying about why you've punished two users is pretty OTT, especially after one of them publicly called you out a few pages back, but I didn't.

What I DID do was went onto the thread and warned other users (and was thanked for it) that jokes were now officially being punished. And before you say, no no, that's not true, know that that official warning - for making a joke - sorry accusing Adverts of developing a currency to complete with the Euro - still exists on my account. And on another users account.

I was then banned from the thread for publicly discussing the warning.

So then, I went to dispute resolution to complain about this weirdness.

Here's my post:

I was "warned" for making an obvious joke

A moderator, ###, just warned me for joking that "adverts ultimate goal was to make a new currency (which I dubbed "Adverts Fun Bucks™") to take on the Euro".

The reason for the warning?

I was making a "baseless accusation".

Do we need get out a dictionary and define the word "accusation"?

So.

I'd like to register a complaint against "###".

This is quite obviously a retaliation for my vocal complaints against the new Adverts policy. And it's obviously an abuse of what little power he has.

I refuse to accept that an incredibly absurd joke could be seen as a "accusation".

However, if you read the thread you'll note I did call him out for his hypocrisy - a post he publicly ignored.

So.

Do what's right.

I also linked to the same images you've seen here.

After a few days I was told soomeone would get back to me. A few days later someone did.

Here's their response:

OK, I've read through this and I was keeping a close eye on the thread in question.

It was a serious thread that a lot of people needed serious answers on and you were making jokes. I wouldn't normally say that was an issue except that it was a fast moving thread with a lot of annoyed people (and to be perfectly honest, I agree that they had every right to be). So Steve issued a warning to try and keep things on topic and vaguely moving in the same direction. He warned you for posting your "joke" and when you ignored this and argued it on thread, you fall into "arguing moderation decisions on thread" which has been a very long standing Boards.ie rule and shouldn't come as a shock to someone who's been here going on 7 years.

So I'll tell you what, I'll reverse the ban if you understand and accept your part in this (arguing mod decisions on thread) and we'll call it case closed.

Now it's important to note that the bolded part is factually incorrect. I was NEVER ACTUALLY warned for making a joke... I was - as you're tired of hearing me say - warned for a "baseless accusation".

On top of that, this "resolution" completely ignored several things:

- A mod was dishonest, to Boards, about the behaviour of two users. One of which was NEVER told that they weren't ACTUALLY being warned for the stated behaviour, but for another secret reason. That certainly shouldn't just be accepted as normal mod behaviour.

- The second user who was secretly punished for making a joke - or rather setting up my joke - is ignored completely. No warning removed, no nothing.

- The idea that jokes are warn-able seems to be being upheld - the warning wasn't removed, instead the ban for breaking the rules - which I did - was. What sense is there in that?

I pointed these things out, in terms just like this, and also said the Mod should be told that you can't punish people for making jokes...

From the FAQ:

These are guidelines for Boards.ie. People might refer to them as "rules" but it is impossible to create a set of "rules" to govern human interaction. These are broad brushstrokes of what we here at Boards want for the part of the internet we call home.

If these aren’t to your liking there are other websites perhaps better suited to your needs and tastes but we believe these form a reasonable, rational, mature basis for adults to chat natter discuss laugh debate joke banter and interact.

So right there in the FAQ, joking is listed as a main reason for the site to exist... and yet... two users are being punished for joking - one just for being sorta involved in the joke.

Anyway, I pointed out that the issue wasn't even close to being resolved, from my perspective, and gave the reasons why, and my desired resolution.

The Mod, instead of engaging with me, reaching out to the other user or trying to have a conversation about the issue to make it all more palatable to me, was to say:

OK, you either have no idea what you've done wrong and/or you have no desire to actually resolve this, so I'm not going to spend any more time on it.

Ban and card stands.

So that's an accusation/insult, and a curt dismissal, followed by re-instating the ban.

What?

The thread was then closed and no further discussion was allowed.

What I've learned:

- Mods are allowed to police jokes.

- Mods are allowed to officially accuse people of one thing, while privately accusing them of something else entirely.

- Only a complainant gets any relief, even if more than the complainant is injured in a dispute. The second user now has an official warning, because a mod decided that a joke on the back of their post was somehow a "baseless accusation".


I was approached by another user, whom I've no previous interaction with. They encouraged me to make this thread, so that there'd be some chance of things changing, based on my experience.

I have not named and shamed the mods, intentionally, as I think that would make this a fight - not my goal. I have however pursued this in a separate way and if anything else comes from that I will add it to this thread.

Thanks for reading.

Insect Overlord

That's not really feedback at all. You should have taken Dav's offer when you had the chance instead of making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Dressing up your very specific complaints as some kind of attempt at site-wide feedback is just making you look worse in front of a wider audience.

Sorry!

MilanPan!c

An File wrote: »

That's not really feedback at all. You should have taken Dav's offer when you had the chance instead of making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Dressing up your very specific complaints as some kind of attempt at site-wide feedback is just making you look worse in front of a wider audience.

Sorry!

Thanks for the very useful post.

I see you too think it's ok for mods to lie about why they're warning people.

And that mods can punish people for being quoted by someone else.

Good to know.

El Weirdo

Give it a rest.

If ever there was a thread to herald the return of lolcats to Feedback, this is surely it.

Insect Overlord

The way in which you attempted to resolve your problem was childish and made for uncomfortable reading. Shouting demands at a Community Manager who was trying to help you was bad enough. Starting a further TWO threads in the DRP forum after that was just silly. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by dragging it out even more here. Repetition doesn't make you right.

MilanPan!c

El Weirdo wrote: »

Give it a rest.

If ever there was a thread to herald the return of lolcats to Feedback, this is surely it.

Thanks for your feedback. It adds a lot to the discussion.

MilanPan!c

An File wrote: »

The way in which you attempted to resolve your problem was childish and made for uncomfortable reading. Shouting demands at a Community Manager who was trying to help you was bad enough. Starting a further TWO threads in the DRP forum after that was just silly. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by dragging it out even more here. Repetition doesn't make you right.

How else can I respond? The thread was closed after the mod completely misstated the issue, and the second user - who was warned for simply being quoted by me - was ignored.

As for repetition, I note that this is YOUR SECOND post in this thread.

El Weirdo

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback. It adds a lot to the discussion.

Look, you had your chance to get the ban overturned but you went and pissed on your chips with your responses to Dav and subsequent threads in DRP.

MilanPan!c

El Weirdo wrote: »

Look, you had your chance to get the ban overturned, and you went and pissed on your chips by your responses to Dav and subsequent threads in DRP.

I didn't want the ban overturned because "can't we all just get along," but because mods should NOT be allowed to lie as part of punishing a user and they should be allowed to warn a user because someone else quoted their post.

I am not cross for a mod being a jerk, but because they're abusing their powers to shut people up... and because no one cares that the mod themselves is actively going against the FAQ.

I also think if Dav is going to make a unquestionable ruling he should at the very least bother to get the facts straight and not insult users in the process.

And he should reach out to the other user and overturn the warning they received, for being quoted.

Dav

You had a chance to explain your side of things, you didn't.

DRP isn't some sort of chat, it's an appeals process and if you're just going to ignore what I asked and waste my time, then I'm not going to bother.