Recording of live trad music session

caddy2

We have a public house and recently we had two traditional music sessions - one which we organised and paid for and the other was unexpected when a group called in and ending up staying. Do we have the right to record this music?

Mr. Incognito

You have a right to record it but not to exploit it or make commercial gain from it without the performers consent.

coylemj

caddy2 wrote: »

We have a public house and recently we had two traditional music sessions - one which we organised and paid for and the other was unexpected when a group called in and ending up staying. Do we have the right to record this music?

The fact that you paid the first group to perform makes no difference, you don't have any greater or lesser right to exploit the recording you made of either performance. Performing for payment or for free would typically not grant you the right to use a recording of the performance other than for private (domestic) purposes.

In addition to needing the permission of the performers, you'd need a licence from the copyright owners (typically the composers) if you wanted to use the recordings for commercial purposes.

endacl

As a performer, I'd say check with the players first. If you didn't, I'd be mightily pi55ed off. Legal rights and wrongs are not the only rights and wrongs. I've played in pubs that recorded us by arrangement. No problem at all. It's nice to be asked. Nicer to be paid. Most wouldn't have any issue with it whatsoever, once you're clear as to what you intend to use the recordings for and it's all above board. Pubs that treat good musicians badly tend to find it difficult to book good musicians again.

caddy2

Thanks for all your contributions, between you all I have a clearer idea of the set up. And just to clarify, we didn't record the music but we enjoyed it so much ourselves we later thought it would have been great to have recorded it for my parents who dont get out and would love to listen to that type of music and also for background music for our website. It was an after thought. The idea of the commercial side is interesting but sounds complicated when you need to get more permission even beyond the musician. Thanks again all, well explained by you all and thank you for your time

234

caddy2 wrote: »

Thanks for all your contributions, between you all I have a clearer idea of the set up. And just to clarify, we didn't record the music but we enjoyed it so much ourselves we later thought it would have been great to have recorded it for my parents who dont get out and would love to listen to that type of music and also for background music for our website. It was an after thought. The idea of the commercial side is interesting but sounds complicated when you need to get more permission even beyond the musician. Thanks again all, well explained by you all and thank you for your time

Use on a website would be commercial use and would require a licence.

Pro Hoc Vice

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0028/sec0204.html#sec204

"204.—(1) A performer has the exclusive right to authorise or prohibit the making of a copy of a recording of the whole or any substantial part of a qualifying performance and it is immaterial whether the copy is made directly or indirectly.

(2) There shall be a right of a performer conferred by this section which shall be known and in this Part referred to as the “reproduction right”.

(3) The reproduction right is infringed by a person who, without the consent of the performer, undertakes or authorises another to undertake the act referred to in subsection (1).

(4) The reproduction right is not infringed by the making of a copy referred to in subsection (3) by a person for his or her private and domestic use.

(5) Where a copy, which would otherwise be an illicit recording is made under this section but is subsequently sold, rented or lent, or offered or exposed for sale, rental or loan, or otherwise made available to the public, it shall be treated as an illicit recording for those purposes and for all subsequent purposes.

(6) For the purposes of Parts III and IV, references to the making of a copy of a recording or to copying shall include the making of a temporary or permanent copy of a recording and the storing of a recording in any medium."

Carawaystick

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0028/sec0204.html#sec204

"204.—(1) A performer has the exclusive right to authorise or prohibit the making of a copy of a recording of the whole or any substantial part of a qualifying performance and it is immaterial whether the copy is made directly or indirectly.
"

How does this square up with the cops or screws recording performances on phone calls?

Pro Hoc Vice

Carawaystick wrote: »

How does this square up with the cops or screws recording performances on phone calls?

While many are great performances I doubt they are performers under the act lol.

Carawaystick

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

While many are great performances I doubt they are performers under the act lol.

If a prisoner, or the person they called sang a piece if a song or told a funny original story that's performance if a literary work

Grolschevik

Carawaystick wrote: »

If a prisoner, or the person they called sang a piece if a song or told a funny original story that's performance if a literary work

“Hey baby, yeah,
This is original composition,
As such, hell yeah,
Copyright communication,
A performance, yeah,
So just check out my position,
In the station, yeah,
Just check my disposition,
You my brief, yeah,
I give you my permission,
Move the stuff, yeah,
It’s no great imposition,
Talk soon, yeah,
You solve my main condition,
Yeah, yeah, yeah…”


Yeah... I can't see that flying!

Wheelnut

Ahem... Look at the title of the thread: "Recording of live trad music session"

Traditional music is likely to be well out of copyright.

endacl

Wheelnut wrote: »

Ahem... Look at the title of the thread: "Recording of live trad music session"

Traditional music is likely to be well out of copyright.

There are many newly/recently composed tunes that are regularly played. People write tunes all the time in the traditional idiom.

Also, if I put a set of three reels together, for example, with particular variations and instrumentation, then I'm recognized as the author of an arrangement. And am entitled to a fee for its use even if the tunes involved are as old as the hills.

Pro Hoc Vice

Wheelnut wrote: »

Ahem... Look at the title of the thread: "Recording of live trad music session"

Traditional music is likely to be well out of copyright.

Yes the music may very well be out of copyright, but the performance even of non copyright music is in it self protected. All contained in the Act I linked.

Even silence can have copyright http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2276621.stm

Wheelnut

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Even silence can have copyright http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2276621.stm

You live and learn!

(Although I can't help wonder if that "dispute" was staged for the publicity)

endacl

Wheelnut wrote: »

You live and learn!

(Although I can't help wonder if that "dispute" was staged for the publicity)

You think that was weird? Cage wrote 4'33" specifically for piano, (?!?)
and wouldn't give permission for the 'piece' to be arranged for other instruments.

Go figure...

Wheelnut

endacl wrote: »

... Cage wrote 4'33" specifically for piano, (?!?)
and wouldn't give permission for the 'piece' to be arranged for other instruments...

He should have been a bannister!