Problem with repair 1 year on

cruizer101

Not sure is ths better here or in consumer issues but given its about car thought put here for the moment. Car is 97 Honda Civic 1.4

Last year I failed the NCT on emmissions and got a new CAT put in which got me through the test.

Recently a leak developed in my exhaust system and when I had a look I could see where it was. It was coming out from a patch which was just after the cat. At the time it struck me as strange as there shouldn't of been a patch there, I had never got that exhaust patched up. I couldn't quite figure it out but put a load of gun gum at the hole at the edge of the patch to fix it up anyway.

Onwards to my NCT and I fail it, on emmissions, high CO. On talking to someone in a different garage which specializes in Honda, when I said I failed on high CO he said probably CAT or O2 sensor, I said I'd replaced CAT last year, first thing he said 'was it a honda one'. He went to explain that Honda's have large CAT's in them and that often they are replaced with a normal spurious CAT which will last a while but will then give up. The honda CAT's are larger then normal ones. He also said you would be looking at best part of 400 for a honda CAT (not even necessarily a honda brand CAT but a well made genuinly made for honda spurious one)

Now this explains why the patch, they obviously cut the exhaust to extend the pipe with a patch to reach the shorter CAT. This cost 200 at the time.

So I'm now in a situation where my car has failed the NCT on emmissions. I can't prove it is due to the CAT without replacing it, although the evidence would appear to point that way. And either way the job that was carried out on the car last year was not what I wanted. I currently have a CAT which has either failed or I am lead to believe will fail and another piece of exhaust which has been cut through and patched up, which started to leak and I had to fix.

So what would be the advice re going back to the garage to get this fixed, do I have any rights in this regard, do I stand a chance, any advice what approach I should take. Thanks for reading and any suggestions.

Stavros Murphy

I'm sure the garage that fitted the Cat will welcome you back with open arms and proffer a full refund. Sure why not. It's only been a year, and it was a €200 job, should last almost indefinitely, regardless of what emissions your car is chucking out.

CiniO

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I'm sure the garage that fitted the Cat will welcome you back with open arms and proffer a full refund. Sure why not. It's only been a year, and it was a €200 job, should last almost indefinitely, regardless of what emissions your car is chucking out.

What are you on about?
Garage fitted new cat for OP, which possibly could have not been fit for purpose, and job they done didn't even last a year (leak in exhaust).

Would you be happy if job you paid €200 for, was void after a year?

If OP has a invoice for fitting the part, I suppose one year warranty should be covering it. I might be wrong, but there definitely should be a warranty coming with the cat.

Renegade Mechanic

Someone pays 200 quid for a catalyst, fitted, Its going to be sh*te Im afraid.

CiniO

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Someone pays 200 quid for a catalyst, fitted, Its going to be sh*te Im afraid.

It depands.
If mechanic said to the OP - "listen, your cat is gone, new one costs 500, but I can get you universal one for 200. It's going to be bit sh1te, and it won't last long, but it will push your car through this NCT", then it's fair enough.

But if mechanic said - "listen, your cat is gone, new one costs 200 fitted, and this will sort out the problem", then I assume there is something wrong here, and OP is rightly annoyed if thing died year later.

projectgtr

Not something I'd be chasing up tbh, you paid 200 what did you expect? The work was done and it passed the NCT, a year later and your complaining, its a 97 1.4 civic if the cat is gone I'd be down to the scrap yard getting a 2nd hand cat, not forking out 400 odd to sort it.

projectgtr

CiniO wrote: »

It depands.
If mechanic said to the OP - "listen, your cat is gone, new one costs 500, but I can get you universal one for 200. It's going to be bit sh1te, and it won't last long, but it will push your car through this NCT", then it's fair enough.

But if mechanic said - "listen, your cat is gone, new one costs 200 fitted, and this will sort out the problem", then I assume there is something wrong here, and OP is rightly annoyed if thing died year later.

Even if the second one was said, tough. The cat was fit and fit for purpose. Many factors can cause a cat to have a very short lifespan specially non OEM, so I can't see the op getting anywhere with this

CiniO

projectgtr wrote: »

Even if the second one was said, tough. The cat was fit and fit for purpose. Many factors can cause a cat to have a very short lifespan specially non OEM, so I can't see the op getting anywhere with this

Isn't it a law that every product like this should come with 1 year warranty?
If cat didn't last a year, then it's either cat's fault or mechanics fault who fit it.

Renegade Mechanic

CiniO wrote: »

It depands.
If mechanic said to the OP - "listen, your cat is gone, new one costs 500, but I can get you universal one for 200. It's going to be bit sh1te, and it won't last long, but it will push your car through this NCT", then it's fair enough.

But if mechanic said - "listen, your cat is gone, new one costs 200 fitted, and this will sort out the problem", then I assume there is something wrong here, and OP is rightly annoyed if thing died year later.

Hmmm thats true. Anytime Ive offered a "budget fix" Ive made clear how long I expect it to last. (And they still come roaring when it finally fails....) But doing a cheap job without explaining why its cheap isnt good form.

projectgtr

CiniO wrote: »

Isn't it a law that every product like this should come with 1 year warranty?
If cat didn't last a year, then it's either cat's fault or mechanics fault who fit it.

Am I missing something? I'm assuming since the fix got the op through their last NCT and now A YEAR later on their next NCT the issue is found?

CiniO

projectgtr wrote: »

Am I missing something? I'm assuming since the fix got the op through their last NCT and now A YEAR later on their next NCT the issue is found?

Yes, quite likely it's been less than a year since repair.

projectgtr

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, quite likely it's been less than a year since repair.

How? Until the op says otherwise I think your reading too much into it. Oh and it could easily be the lambda sensor that's causing the high emissions.

CiniO

projectgtr wrote: »

How? Until the op says otherwise I think your reading too much into it.

I'm just guessing, but it well could be less than a year from repairs.

Oh and it could easily be the lambda sensor that's causing the high emissions.

If lambda sensor was responsible for high CO emissions, would the lambda reading on NCT also be above (or below) the limits?

Tigger

Their lambda and the cars lambda are two different things

CiniO

Tigger wrote: »

Their lambda and the cars lambda are two different things

How can they be two different things if they are to measure ratio of oxygen in exhaust fumes.

If lambda sensor was faulty, oxygen ratio would be incorrect and it could cause excessive CO emissions, but it would show up on lambda reading during NCT test.
At least that's my understanding of it.

Stavros Murphy

CiniO wrote: »

What are you on about?
.

Which bit of my post could you not read? I said they'd welcome him back, so what are you on about? You seem to be arguing with yourself. Nothing new there.

CiniO

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Which bit of my post could you not read? I said they'd welcome him back, so what are you on about? You seem to be arguing with yourself. Nothing new there.

No, no Mr. Murphy.
I got you point without any bother.
You are now only making fool of yourself...

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

all well and good throwing a cat in for NCT only reason,

but that could be just to cover up an underlying issue possibly !

for example, car with valve stem oil seals gone/damaged need replacing.

new cat, oil change and pass nct !

or could be a faulty cat or lamda sensor or even the exhaust not welded up properly

cruizer101

Thanks for all the replies good to get some opinions, I do agree a certain extent that a year on is asking a lot. But my issues are this, they never said it was going to be a crap CAT they were putting in, yes maybe I should of realised for 200 it wasn't going to be a great one but really I would expect them to explain that a proper one woudl cost 400-500 or we can fit one that will just get you through this NCT for 200, in which case I would have gone for the more expensive option.

The other issue is they had to cut my existing exhaust and patch it up in order to fit the cheap CAT. Meaning if I now want to put in a proper CAT that bit of exhaust needs to be repaired as well, adding to the cost. I never agreed to them damaging another bit of my car.

When I went looking for a repair last year I wasn't looking for something to get me just through that NCT but looking for a propoer fix. The car may be old but that doesn't mean I just want inferior fixes to problems, a well cared honda should keep on going.

The other issue of course is that it may not be the CAT that is causing the fail this time there is no way of knowing withpout changing it, it just looks likely. At the end of the day the garage have done shoddy work and had they explained what they were going to do I would not have agreed to it, yes it is a year on but that doesn't change what they have done. Love to hear more opinions although tbh I might just end up taking a trip to the Bangernomics thread at this stage.

projectgtr

cruizer101 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies good to get some opinions, I do agree a certain extent that a year on is asking a lot. But my issues are this, they never said it was going to be a crap CAT they were putting in, yes maybe I should of realised for 200 it wasn't going to be a great one but really I would expect them to explain that a proper one woudl cost 400-500 or we can fit one that will just get you through this NCT for 200, in which case I would have gone for the more expensive option.

The other issue is they had to cut my existing exhaust and patch it up in order to fit the cheap CAT. Meaning if I now want to put in a proper CAT that bit of exhaust needs to be repaired as well, adding to the cost. I never agreed to them damaging another bit of my car.

When I went looking for a repair last year I wasn't looking for something to get me just through that NCT but looking for a propoer fix. The car may be old but that doesn't mean I just want inferior fixes to problems, a well cared honda should keep on going.

The other issue of course is that it may not be the CAT that is causing the fail this time there is no way of knowing withpout changing it, it just looks likely. At the end of the day the garage have done shoddy work and had they explained what they were going to do I would not have agreed to it, yes it is a year on but that doesn't change what they have done. Love to hear more opinions although tbh I might just end up taking a trip to the Bangernomics thread at this stage.

what were the readings from your NCT?

BTW when i mentioned the age of your car i didnt mean to put it down hell i drive a 95 civic same shape as yours, i just wouldnt be paying for brand new OEM parts on a car of that age. I had the same problem with emissions on 2 civics one was lambda sensor and other was cat, i replaced the cat myself with a 2nd hand oem one from the scrapyard.

I wouldnt go getting a new car yet , yours should be able to be fixed cheap enough depending, theres a huge 2nd hand market for parts for these cars.

cruizer101

Both the low idle and high idle CO were above limits the high limit is 0.3 and reading was 0.77 the low was over also but not by as much, can't remember will have to check the cert. The lambda didn't fail but was 1.01.

I'll ring around a few scrapyards anyway and see how much I can pick one up for. I don't think be able to replace myself, I've axlestands and that but exhaust is a pain to work on, both from acess point of view and rusty bolts.

greasepalm

before you do all that how do you drive your car,short journeys to shops?,do you drive at 60-80 kmph on motorway? did you drive car well on the day of test,many owners dont and fail emissions,we use 2 products novation power kleen in a 1/4 tank of fuel great stuff and if problem with cat cataclean.

http://www.novatio.be/en/product/novafuel-powerkleen

http://reviews.halfords.com/4028/616247/reviews.htm

cruizer101

Car is mostly driven on a 40 mile motorway commute, odd bit of traffic but for the most part cruising along 80 to 100 km/h on the day of test had just driven 25 ish miles right before test, decent speed.

I'm a bit sceptical of a lot of those products tbh I'm getting near the point of having to get a full test done again not just a retest, so not sure might try booka restest and give it a go.

greasepalm

we use both in garage and used the power kleen on a 98 ford galaxy diesel with 470,000 miles and it passed on emissions,get a can of that or cataclean put into fuel tank and drive car for 20 mins and get a local garage to recheck your emissions and if it passes then go to nct,sitting on the fence thinking wont do diddly then times runs out.,get your nct results and post what it says as of now.
dug up one for a 92 misubishi

low idle co.0.26%vol oil temp 105.c
hc 111pm

high idle lambda 0.00
co.0.00 vol%
hc 0ppm

reason pre 94 lol

cruizer101

Engine/Oil temp 101 C
Low idle: CO 0.59% limit 0.50%
750 rpm HC 156 ppm


High idle: CO 0.77% limit 0.30%
2,870 rpm HC 55ppm limit 200ppm
lambda 1.01 limit 0.97 & 1.03

For the price of getting it tested in a garage might be as cheap to get NCT to do it for 28

greasepalm

did you check for holes in pipe after cat along the seam they rust and will fail with leakage?