Irish License - Disqualified (QLD)

scoopo16

Today I got a letter from the Transport and Main Roads department which reads:

Department of Transport and Main Roads has no record of you holding a Queensland driver licence or a driver licence granted to you in another Australian State or Territory.

as you have accumulated 4 or more demerit points on your traffic history in a continuous 1 year period and you do not hold a driver licence, you are ineligible to hold a Queensland driver licence for 3 months starting on 13 May 2014.

11/03/2014 Exceed Speed Limit In Speed Zone By Less Than 13km/H 1 Point finalised 14/04/2014
29/04/2013 Exceed Speed Limit In Speed Zone By At Least 13km/H Not More 20Km/H 3 Point finalised 28/08/2014

What happens if you drive during this period?
If you are found driving during this period, you will be charged with unlicenced driving and you will be required to appear in court. Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995.

If the charge is proven, the court will disqualify you from holding or obtaining a driver licence for 6 months and may impose a fine of more than $4000 or 1 year's imprisonment. If you are convicted of driving when disqualified by a court, you will be further disqualified for a period of at least 2 years to a maximum of 5 years, and you may be fined more than $6000 or 18 months imprisonment.

When may you apply for a Queensland driver licence?
You may apply for the grant of a learner licence as soon as this 3 month period has ended.

If you presently hold a valid driver licence granted outside Queensland
If you do hold a valid driver licence granted to you outside Queensland, you are requested to contact your nearest Department of Transport and main Roads Customer Service Centre immediately. If you hold a driver licence granted outside Queensland thats corresponds to a Queensland open Licence, this notice may be withdrawn allowing you to continue to drive in Queensland under that licence.

Can someone please help me with this, when I was driving on my Irish Licence I looked up the conditions of driving on a foreign Licence and nowhere does it mention you will loose you Licence after accumulating 4 points in 12 months. I hope I can get this sorted as I'm so dependent on being able to drive

Cooperspale

Contact the Roads Customer service centre ASAP rather than asking here.
I'd hope that your full irish licence should cover and allow up to 12 points but I'm no expert. Might depend on your visa status too. 4 demerits leading to disqualification sounds like green Ps

aido79

scoopo16 wrote: »

Today I got a letter from the Transport and Main Roads department which reads:

Department of Transport and Main Roads has no record of you holding a Queensland driver licence or a driver licence granted to you in another Australian State or Territory.

as you have accumulated 4 or more demerit points on your traffic history in a continuous 1 year period and you do not hold a driver licence, you are ineligible to hold a Queensland driver licence for 3 months starting on 13 May 2014.

11/03/2014 Exceed Speed Limit In Speed Zone By Less Than 13km/H 1 Point finalised 14/04/2014
29/04/2013 Exceed Speed Limit In Speed Zone By At Least 13km/H Not More 20Km/H 3 Point finalised 28/08/2014

What happens if you drive during this period?
If you are found driving during this period, you will be charged with unlicenced driving and you will be required to appear in court. Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995.

If the charge is proven, the court will disqualify you from holding or obtaining a driver licence for 6 months and may impose a fine of more than $4000 or 1 year's imprisonment. If you are convicted of driving when disqualified by a court, you will be further disqualified for a period of at least 2 years to a maximum of 5 years, and you may be fined more than $6000 or 18 months imprisonment.

When may you apply for a Queensland driver licence?
You may apply for the grant of a learner licence as soon as this 3 month period has ended.

If you presently hold a valid driver licence granted outside Queensland
If you do hold a valid driver licence granted to you outside Queensland, you are requested to contact your nearest Department of Transport and main Roads Customer Service Centre immediately. If you hold a driver licence granted outside Queensland thats corresponds to a Queensland open Licence, this notice may be withdrawn allowing you to continue to drive in Queensland under that licence.

Can someone please help me with this, when I was driving on my Irish Licence I looked up the conditions of driving on a foreign Licence and nowhere does it mention you will loose you Licence after accumulating 4 points in 12 months. I hope I can get this sorted as I'm so dependent on being able to drive

Do you have a full Irish licence? When you drive on an Irish licence in Australia and obtain demerit points for speeding, or whatever reason, they set up a"ghost" account for you. This means that any points you accumulate can and will be transferred onto an Australian licence when you get it. In your case they have given you the same amount of demerits as a learner or P1 driver. If you have a full Irish drivers licence then you may be able to go the department of transport and they may be able to help you..if not then public transport might be your best option.

Mellor

It doesn't say your Irish license is disqualified. It says as (by their records) you have no license, so you can't apply for one for 3 months.

But as you do have one, you can let them know and they'll withdraw the notice.

If you hold a driver licence granted outside Queensland thats corresponds to a Queensland open Licence, this notice may be withdrawn allowing you to continue to drive in Queensland under that licence.

cikearney

Do QLD not give you a special permits licence if some sort to be able to drive between 6am and 5pm so you can get to work

AngryHippie

You are supposed to get an Australian license from your resident state/territory within 6 months of taking up residence (Even WHV residence).

You haven't done this, and you have racked up 4 points on a license they have never seen = Ban.

Bring in your license, they will issue a QLD license, and transfer the points onto it.
Bish Bash Bosh.

Call them to confirm this is correct, but that is my reading of it.

If you have a QLD license and it you hit the 12 points, they can allow a single (1) probationary point to a driver who depends on the license for work travel.
To be fair, if you depend on your license for work, you shouldn't be getting close to this. Its a letter from the employer, and a court appearance to sort that one out AFIK, but it can be done. I doubt the same courtesy will apply to an Irish license or an international license however.

Slow down mate.

Fol20

If you get points in australia. Are they transferred back to your irish license when you go home?

Grab All Association

Fol20 wrote: »

If you get points in australia. Are they transferred back to your irish license when you go home?

Nope

Mellor

AngryHippie wrote: »

You are supposed to get an Australian license from your resident state/territory within 6 months of taking up residence (Even WHV residence).

License laws might differ from state to state. But the above isn't the case in NSW.

With PR you have 3 months to change your license. All other visas (WHV, 457, etc) are considered visitors, you aren't even eligible to change in the first 6 months. And there's no obligation to after that.

aido79

Mellor wrote: »

License laws might differ from state to state. But the above isn't the case in NSW.

With PR you have 3 months to change your license. All other visas (WHV, 457, etc) are considered visitors, you aren't even eligible to change in the first 6 months. And there's no obligation to after that.

Qld and WA are the same so I would assume it's the same in other states too.

AngryHippie

Are you considered resident, if you are resident for tax purposes,
Example,
On a whv, in QLD for 3 months or over, no permanent residence, but residing in QLD....

http://www.travellers.com.au/Planyourtrip/DrivinginAustralia/tabid/500/Default.aspx
This site says yes....

If my memory serves correctly until 2013, it was the case that if residing in QLD for over 6 months the license had to be changed over, regardless of visa condition, as I had the issue through work, (could not operate a work vehicle without QLD license) I was told at the time it was TMR regulations and not an internal company policy....

http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/licensing/driver-licensing/overseas/driving/index.html
This page is clear as mud when it comes to your status on a whv etc.

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/licensing/visitorstonsw/gettingnswlicence.html
RTA is a little bit clearer about it, and says that you cannot apply within the first 6 months residing interstate, but may have to provide proof of date of entry etc.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/NewToVictoria/OverseasDriversLicences.htm

Vic Roads is pretty clear in the link above

http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/licensing/driver-licensing/overseas/transfer/index.html

TMR says not necessarily, if on a temporary visa, which includes WHV and 457, as they are both classed as temporary visas.


Added to the fact that an Irish DL will not be accepted in most Bars etc. in QLD as a valid form of ID (it confuses the sh!te out of them) Its just easier to pay for a transfer of license, get in the system and post your old Irish license home.

Mellor

AngryHippie wrote: »

Are you considered resident, if you are resident for tax purposes,

Afaik, Resident for tax purposes, is only for tax purposes.

RTA website states everything except PR and citizen is considered visitor

Who is a temporary overseas visitor?
If you are not an Australian citizen and not a permanent resident of Australia, you are regarded as a temporary overseas visitor. Temporary overseas visitors can include:

Tourists
Business people on limited-duration visits
People visiting friends or relatives or
People studying or working temporarily in NSW (eg working visa holders).

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/licensing/visitorstonsw/gettingnswlicence.html

Added to the fact that an Irish DL will not be accepted in most Bars etc. in QLD as a valid form of ID (it confuses the sh!te out of them) Its just easier to pay for a transfer of license, get in the system and post your old Irish license home.

Definitely handier having a wallet ID.
When I got here first I wasn't driving, so I got an RTA ID instead of paying for a license every year. But other than that, I don't see a reason not to change over.

AngryHippie

Mellor wrote: »

so I got an RTA ID instead of paying for a license every year. But other than that, I don't see a reason not to change over.

They gave me a 5 year license on my 1st WHV.
It was a while ago now though ('09)

Mellor

AngryHippie wrote: »

They gave me a 5 year license on my 1st WHV.
It was a while ago now though ('09)

Gave me 12 months just before I applied for PR last year. Could of held out a bit longer for 5 year, but GF was learning to drive. Should have tried another window at the RTA, lottery service in that place.

AngryHippie

TMR is worse !
Its a bit like a speedboat without a driver.
On half throttle bouncing along.

Slideways

From what I remember I had to get a letter from my enployer saying I was here on a long term basis (I held 457 then) to be allowed apply for a WA licence.

I think it does vary with who you get on the day.

Back in 06 I got a QLD licence after an eye test there and then. Great service at the time

scoopo16

Thanks for all the info guys, I'm not so sure I'll be successful with being able to walk into the TMR office and ask for a QLD licence, my understanding from the letter is that I am not eligible to apply for a QLD licence until the suspension is over and I'm also suspended from driving on my current Licence.

Aside for the gory details on all the ins and outs about the Licence, I have to come back to the point whereby nowhere on any Australian Roads Authority website does it say that you only have a four points if and when you are driving on a Foreign Licence? This is what ****s me most about the hole thing, the idea of points is that they are a warning to someone when they know what their limit is, in my case I was under the impression from the information on TMR website that I had 12 point like every other individual foreign or citizen.

RE: All the comments about getting a Licence after 3 or 6 months, this Government is so found of giving people Permanent residence or Citizenship and the way I see it is that I'm on a 457 which is classified as a temporary stay why should I have to exchange my Licence?

This is TMR's statement regarding Foreign Licence Applications:

You will need to apply for a Queensland driver licence if you:

are an Australian citizen and you have been residing in Queensland for 3 months
are not an Australian citizen, but before you took up residence in Queensland you were given a resident visa and you have now been residing in Queensland for 3 months
are not an Australian citizen, but after you took up residence in Queensland you were given a resident visa and you have now been residing in Queensland for 3 months since getting the visa.
A resident visa is a permanent visa or special category visa under the Migration Act 1958 (Commonwealth). These visas allow a person to stay indefinitely in Australia. These do not include temporary, business or guardian visas.

I think I will ignore the Licence and behave hoping not to get caught, if I get caught I will have to appear in Court but my defense would be that I never received the Letter, and in addition to that when paying the fine at the TMR office, the servant handed me back my Licence and never mentioned a suspension nothing of the sort, this also applies for the police officer who stop me for speeding, he infact asked why I didnt have a Licence I informed him I was not a resident he said "okay so, thats fine" he also went on to say "its one point, but that wont affect you" and sent me on my merry way.

Any recommendations folks? I can apply for the work Licence and I have spoken to my employer, however by doing this I'm acknowledging the fact that I have had a Licence suspension which is not good to have on record, I would like to argue the fact that I cannot get a Licence as per the conditions imposed by TMR and also ask them to clarify where it states a Foreign Licence holder is subject to a limit of four demerit points?

catbear

Got to be honest you're taking a gamble. Technically you might be in the clear but ignoring the ban without official clarification might be taken badly by a court, regardless of who is right or wrong.

Mellor

scoopo16 wrote: »

I'm also suspended from driving on my current Licence.

I don't think you are. Read the letter letter again.
Did you see my first post above?

The letter says you can't apply for 3 months if you don't hold a license.
It then says if you hold an outside license equal to an open (full) license the letter will be withdrawn.

If you hold a driver licence granted outside Queensland thats corresponds to a Queensland open Licence, this notice may be withdrawn allowing you to continue to drive in Queensland under that licence.

AngryHippie

scoopo16 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info guys, I'm not so sure

Have you called them ?

I'm pretty sure Mellor has it right.

The ban is from applying for a QLD license, as in....they have no record whatsoever of the license. If you present one, then you are back to a cap of 12 points. if you are on a 457, then it is definitely worth transferring it to an Australian license, just so you don't have to carry around that bloody pink laminated joke of a thing that we call a license back home.

Call them, give them the letter reference , ask to speak to whoever sent it, it might take a bit of holding, but they will give you a straight answer.

Don't drive without a valid license, because you would be:

1. uninsured
2. facing a 6 month minimum ban if caught
3. almost certainly lose your job if driving a company car
4. in danger of losing your 457 if you lose your job

This is not Ireland, traffic court over here can be a little bit harsher than Ireland, and they certainly won't take an ignorance plea if you were stopped by the cops.
Call them and sort it out. Hiding from it won't help.

scoopo16

UPDATE: 29-04-2014

I went into my local TMR office today and told them I would like to resolve the letter, the servant asked to see my Irish Licence and sent me on my merry way, telling me to disregard the letter.

And to all those who believe I need and should get an Australian Licence, no I don't and the Australian Traffic acts do not obligate me either, I know I can get one if I want but I'm not obligated to, so why would I bother fork out $200 (btw - my Irish Licence, as hideous as it is doesn't bother me).

I'm a happy man, just need to maintain my speed now.

Cheers,

Zambia

Mellor is proven 100% correct.

By the way the "I never knew I was suspended defence" doesn't work.

AngryHippie

scoopo16 wrote: »

And to all those who believe I need and should get an Australian Licence, no I don't and the Australian Traffic acts do not obligate me either, I know I can get one if I want but I'm not obligated to, so why would I bother fork out $200 (btw - my Irish Licence, as hideous as it is doesn't bother me).

Present it at the door of a nightclub and see what happens :pac:

scoopo16

AngryHippie wrote: »

Present it at the door of a nightclub and see what happens :pac:

Not a problem in QLD, anywhere else that won't accept I show show my Gardai Age card, no problems

Slideways

$200 is kinda cheap.

Put it like this, if ever you go home and get any infringement just produce the QLD licence. "I'm home for a holiday officer, send the fine to my parents address"
Pay the fine, dodge the points.. \o/