Best value for money diesels?!

adammcknight

On a budget of about 4K-7K depending on how soon I find something.

Been looking at..
2002 and younger 1.9TDI/2.0TDI A3's and A4's

2005 and younger 1.9TDI/2.0TDI Passats

2005 and younger 1.6 TDCI/1.8 TDCI Focus'(although I'm a fan of the facelifted 2008 model specifically).

Looking at a minimum 1.6L to max 2L (2L max mainly for insurance as I'm young enough, but also tax). Want a decent amount of power and a good looking and reliable car. Low mileage is also an obvious serious bonus.

I'm aware of SOME of the issues with some of the models I've mentioned like the Turbo's going in the 1.6 TDCI Focus and the 3 series problems and one or two other things but any extra input and advice or a different avenue to go down or whatever, is very much appreciated.

Cheers in advance!

racso1975

As an owner of an octavia up till 6 weeks ago when I wrote it off I can highly recommend it. Was an 05 and bought it in 08. It had 50k miles on it and when I last had it mileage was 168k. Only thing that went on it was alternator belt. Obviously I had to do timing belt and service.

I would not have been great at service intervals either. Flywheel was never an issue either.

Very economical too averaging about 55-58 mpg.

Mine was an English import witg all the bells which was nice.

There seems to be great value in the 407 and they come in a 1.6. The wife owned one but I would find it very hard to recommend it. If you are buying or looking service history is very important as with most diesels

christy02

I would beware of narrowing your search to low mileage on a 05/06 diesel. This can lead to problems in itself. Reasonable mileage with fsh is better bet.

2.0 tdi bag engine from that era 05 had troubles with oil pump that can be costly. 1.9tdi is good but less refined.

407 1.6hdi engine for me is not great.

Ceed or i30 could be an option. 320d is a nice option as well.

I have an accord which is nice but 2.2 engine if that is too high tax.

NIMAN

Is there a problem with 1.6TDCi Focus's?

I have a 2010 which has run sweet since I bought it new. I currently have it up for sale and am thinking of hanging on to it for another year maybe, but I never heard about issues with that engine.

adammcknight

racso1975 wrote: »

There seems to be great value in the 407 and they come in a 1.6. The wife owned one but I would find it very hard to recommend it. If you are buying or looking service history is very important as with most diesels

I would be very wary of anything French tbh. I know they may have come along and not all give issues but I think I'd prefer to go with the crowd and stay away from them but appreciate the suggestion!

I was thinking of Octavia too. A few friends have recently bought them and one in particular is a really nice, very clean car but I seem to be leaning towards the A4/Passat area more and more but won't disregard it totally! Cheers

adammcknight

christy02 wrote: »

I would beware of narrowing your search to low mileage on a 05/06 diesel. This can lead to problems in itself. Reasonable mileage with fsh is better bet.

2.0 tdi bag engine from that era 05 had troubles with oil pump that can be costly. 1.9tdi is good but less refined.

407 1.6hdi engine for me is not great.

Ceed or i30 could be an option. 320d is a nice option as well.

I have an accord which is nice but 2.2 engine if that is too high tax.

Yeah I've seen a few people saying that higher mileage isn't such a bad thing on diesels but i do feel a bit apprehensive about anything over 100k miles. Is that fair???

Yeah I've heard A LOT about the 2L issues but was wondering when they actually had them sorted out? Anyone know?

Never looked at the Cee'd to be honest. Might have a little look now.

And yes you're right with the tax on the accord it's just too much for me really. 2L is a stretch! I do like the accords but has to be a no

Cheers for your help!

adammcknight

NIMAN wrote: »

Is there a problem with 1.6TDCi Focus's?

I have a 2010 which has run sweet since I bought it new. I currently have it up for sale and am thinking of hanging on to it for another year maybe, but I never heard about issues with that engine.

Well I've read up a little bit on them and have heard a few stories of the 1.6 having Turbo problems and people are more inclined towards the 1.8. I know not everyone will have problems but I'm just trying to cover all angles really and see what's the best bet for myself yeknow. I do like those focus' though! How much are you selling yours for :P

NIMAN

Slightly more than €7k unfortunately!

What sort of miles would you be doing?
You do know all about DPFs on diesels and how low mileage might be a concern on a diesel?

bazz26

adammcknight wrote: »

I would be very wary of anything French tbh. I know they may have come along and not all give issues but I think I'd prefer to go with the crowd and stay away from them but appreciate the suggestion!

The 1.6 TDCi engine in the Focus is French and the same unit found in the Peugeot 407.

adammcknight

NIMAN wrote: »

Slightly more than €7k unfortunately!

What sort of miles would you be doing?
You do know all about DPFs on diesels and how low mileage might be a concern on a diesel?

Say about an average of 200 miles a week and that'll increase during the summer too. So not a lot really. To be honest no I don't much about them... I've read very very little when it comes to them so if you can be of any help on that I'd very much appreciate it!??

adammcknight

bazz26 wrote: »

The 1.6 TDCi engine in the Focus is French and the same unit found in the Peugeot 407.

Ah well that's something I didn't know...I stand corrected

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Any VAG diesel with the 1.9TDI (afaik) didnt come with a DPF fitted.

adammcknight

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Any VAG diesel with the 1.9TDI (afaik) didnt come with a DPF fitted.

If so should I still be looking at something with decent mileage on it?

NIMAN

Basic gist is that some folk maintain that you shouldn't buy a diesel unless you do 15k miles or more annually. Of course some will disagree with this.

Now I know little about cars mechanically, but from my reading on sites like this I know that the majority of diesels have DPFs to keep emissions low, and these can clog if the engine isn't given a good blast on regular trips to keep it regen'd/clean. City driving is generally not good for them, nor will you get anywhere near the predicted mpg if you only do short trips as it takes a diesel much longer to get to operating temperature.

Dual-mass flywheels can also be an expensive problem if they occur. I work with a couple of people who were hit with huge bills for these.

adammcknight

NIMAN wrote: »

Basic gist is that some folk maintain that you shouldn't buy a diesel unless you do 15k miles or more annually. Of course some will disagree with this.

Now I know little about cars mechanically, but from my reading on sites like this I know that the majority of diesels have DPFs to keep emissions low, and these can clog if the engine isn't given a good blast on regular trips to keep it regen'd/clean. City driving is generally not good for them, nor will you get anywhere near the predicted mpg if you only do short trips as it takes a diesel much longer to get to operating temperature.

Dual-mass flywheels can also be an expensive problem if they occur. I work with a couple of people who were hit with huge bills for these.

Yeah I've read a few things about average mileage for diesels but really thought it was just a guideline and that low mileage was a bonus. What about a low mileage diesel with a full service history? Or is that still a no go? Just best to have one that's been given a decent run?

Is the DPF problem one that can be easily and cheaply fixed or am I being optimistic?

Appreciate your understanding with me being a bit slow haha!

bazz26

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Any VAG diesel with the 1.9TDI (afaik) didnt come with a DPF fitted.

Some did back in the day. Most didn't however.

bazz26

It's not really to an extent the low mileage that diesel engines don't like but more a certain driving style that comes with that low mileage. If you do a lot of short trips consisting of stop/start then this can cause issues especially on a diesel car with a DPF fitted. Driving a diesel car correctly and you will less likely have these issues. Also a diesel engine is not particularly frugal on short journeys, they take longer to warm up than a petrol engine so are not running at peak efficiency. With a diesel the further you drive it the more fuel efficient it becomes.

adammcknight

bazz26 wrote: »

It's not really to an extent the low mileage that diesel engines don't like but more a certain driving style that comes with that low mileage. If you do a lot of short trips consisting of stop/start then this can cause issues especially on a diesel car with a DPF fitted. Driving a diesel car correctly and you will less likely have these issues. Also a diesel engine is not particularly frugal on short journeys, they take longer to warm up than a petrol engine so are not running at peak efficiency. With a diesel the further you drive it the more fuel efficient it becomes.

Yeah I see what you mean now. So more of a motorway mileage one is what's ideal really? Tbh you're slightly throwing me off the idea of diesel because my journeys are not really "long". During the summer months there will be a few longer trips but that's only for a 3-5 month period for me.

My head was stuck on diesel for efficiency but it seems I might be just slowly driving it into the ground. I do a bit of work at night's delivering for a couple of restaurants to keep me in the money while I struggle through college and thought a diesel would be able to handle that. I've friends that have done it in diesel golfs and used very little juice on a night.

In your opinion is there any mid-sized diesels that can handle that kind of driving? Bear in mind I don't have a problem with lashing it up and down the M50 for a few miles a couple of times a week if that's whats needed!

bazz26

A 1.9 TDi is probably the most suitable of any diesel for you then. They are an old tried and tested unit, less complex technology, most have no DPFs, etc to worry about and reliable once they are maintained properly. Finding a clean one will be your biggest challenge.

adammcknight

bazz26 wrote: »

A 1.9 TDi is probably the most suitable of any diesel for you then. They are an old tried and tested unit, less complex technology, most have no DPFs, etc to worry about and reliable once they are maintained properly. Finding a clean one will be your biggest challenge.

Okay well that's a help you've narrowed it down for me. So my thinking along the lines of A3, A4, Passat is right? Or maybe a passat is too much? I was hoping to stay away from Golfs but I would consider one in good condition like anyone I suppose. Any tips on finding a 1.9 in any of the above models that's not bet to death!?

navara man

adammcknight wrote: »

Yeah I've read a few things about average mileage for diesels but really thought it was just a guideline and that low mileage was a bonus. What about a low mileage diesel with a full service history? Or is that still a no go? Just best to have one that's been given a decent run?

Is the DPF problem one that can be easily and cheaply fixed or am I being optimistic?

Appreciate your understanding with me being a bit slow haha!

if your still thinking about focus the 1.8tdci don't have dpf

adammcknight

navara man wrote: »

if your still thinking about focus the 1.8tdci don't have dpf

Yeah I haven't totally dismissed that at all so I appreciate the advice!

christy02

On downside of 1.9tdi it is an older engine that is way more unrefined than today's modern diesel engines. Only 110bhp.
Finding a clean one is not easy.

NIMAN

Maybe a small petrol engined car might suit better?
Would you not be fussed on something like a Fiesta, Corsa or Yaris?

adammcknight

christy02 wrote: »

On downside of 1.9tdi it is an older engine that is way more unrefined than today's modern diesel engines. Only 110bhp.
Finding a clean one is not easy.

That BHP is okay with me To be honest. What's the downfalls of more unrefined engines??

adammcknight

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe a small petrol engined car might suit better?
Would you not be fussed on something like a Fiesta, Corsa or Yaris?

No no definitely none of those I'm afraid. I'm driving a 1.5 Almera at the moment so a step up from that is what I'm looking for really. Definitely not going smaller

Bpmull

christy02 wrote: »

On downside of 1.9tdi it is an older engine that is way more unrefined than today's modern diesel engines. Only 110bhp.
Finding a clean one is not easy.

I drove my parents octavia 05 1.9tdi. I found it a great car but I did find the engine seriously loud over 2k rpm and just generally unrefined. But it was a very economical and reliable car. I know have a 07 golf 1.9tdi engine with the same engine. Yet I couldn't believe how different it is. You basically can't here the engine at all even revving it hard. But when I looked into it turns out golfs have more sound deadening which makes for a quieter car. I still think the octavia is a great car not as good as the golf but then golfs can't be described as cheap diesels as they make high money specially when there clean.

Before the golf I had a 07 focus 1.6tdci and I hated it. The golf is so superior it's not even funny and yet all irish people seem to love the focuses . My one caused a serious amount of trouble. I wouldn't touch a 1.6 tdci/ hdi/ Psa whatever you want to call it engine again. You can be lucky with them but there's far more chance of it breaking your heart.

adammcknight

Bpmull wrote: »

I drove my parents octavia 05 1.9tdi. I found it a great car but I did find the engine seriously loud over 2k rpm and just generally unrefined. But it was a very economical and reliable car. I know have a 07 golf 1.9tdi engine with the same engine. Yet I couldn't believe how different it is. You basically can't here the engine at all even revving it hard. But when I looked into it turns out golfs have more sound deadening which makes for a quieter car. I still think the octavia is a great car not as good as the golf but then golfs can't be described as cheap diesels as they make high money specially when there clean.

Before the golf I had a 07 focus 1.6tdci and I hated it. The golf is so superior it's not even funny and yet all irish people seem to love the focuses . My one caused a serious amount of trouble. I wouldn't touch a 1.6 tdci/ hdi/ Psa whatever you want to call it engine again. You can be lucky with them but there's far more chance of it breaking your heart.

I'm still a little unsure on Octavias. I do like the thought of a decent enough looking car and the skodas don't massively appeal to me although I said in an earlier post that a mate has one a few months and it's really nice. In great condition. A VRS would be great!

adammcknight

Bpmull wrote: »

I know have a 07 golf 1.9tdi engine with the same engine. Yet I couldn't believe how different it is. You basically can't here the engine at all even revving it hard. But when I looked into it turns out golfs have more sound deadening which makes for a quieter car. I still think the octavia is a great car not as good as the golf but then golfs can't be described as cheap diesels as they make high money specially when there clean.

How do you find the golf on diesel?

bazz26

Golf/A3/Octavia and Leon are all pretty much the same car underneath except for different styling and packaging, you will pay different prices for them based on the different perceived image they have. The A3 and Golf being the most expensive compared to the Leon and Octavia.

Bpmull

adammcknight wrote: »

How do you find the golf on diesel?

Very good a lot better than I thought it would be tbh. On longer trips from Kilkenny to cork etc it will do 55-60mpg. Around town a bit less. If you were doing any sort of longish trips 50 mpg would be very easily achieved as an average.

adammcknight

bazz26 wrote: »

Golf/A3/Octavia and Leon are all pretty much the same car underneath except for different styling and packaging, you will pay different prices for them based on the different perceived image they have. The A3 and Golf being the most expensive compared to the Leon and Octavia.

Ah yeah I know all that but basically what I suppose I'm really asking is Should I generally as a basis look for something low mileage or something that has been around a little bit? Obviously both with full service history and make sure it's not been written off in a previous life!

adammcknight

Bpmull wrote: »

Very good a lot better than I thought it would be tbh. On longer trips from Kilkenny to cork etc it will do 55-60mpg. Around town a bit less. If you were doing any sort of longish trips 50 mpg would be very easily achieved as an average.

That all sounds great to me but I am fussy, especially with golfs, and I'd only really be looking at a GT TDI model

bazz26

adammcknight wrote: »

Ah yeah I know all that but basically what I suppose I'm really asking is Should I generally as a basis look for something low mileage or something that has been around a little bit? Obviously both with full service history and make sure it's not been written off in a previous life!

I'm afraid I cannot recommend you a particular diesel car and guarantee you will have no trouble with it. Cars have lots of complex components that eventually fail over time as well as mileage. Even the ever green 1.9 TDi has things like a turbo, flywheel, injectors that can fail or need replacing at some stage.

Have you considered a hybrid? Not the most cool of cars but it might be more suitable and safe choice for your needs. Perfect for driving around town while returning good fuel economy. A Prius might fit the bill.


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Toyota/Prius/1.5-5DR/42313965376459520/

Honda Civic IMA is another one:


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Honda/Civic/HYBRID-AUTOMATIC/39613897995935090/

adammcknight

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm afraid I cannot recommend you a particular diesel car and guarantee you will have no trouble with it. Cars have lots of complex components that eventually fail over time as well as mileage. Even the ever green 1.9 TDi has things like a turbo, flywheel, injectors that can fail or need replacing at some stage.

Have you considered a hybrid? Not the most cool of cars but it might be more suitable and safe choice for your needs. Perfect for driving around town while returning good fuel economy. A Prius might fit the bill.

Yeah I know what you mean I would expect that bit I guess I'm looking for generally the most reliable in people's opinions cause I've done a lot of searching over the last few months on all sorts of models over a variety of makes. I'm just a little indecisive atm and need a little nudge in a general direction instead of me either doing the widespread searches or the narrowed down searches of cars that I shouldn't really be considering. An A4 was and still is my first choice but I am always open to suggestions from the likes of yourself who's knowledge of this is better than mine.

To be honest a Prius really really isn't my thing ha! The "cool" factor you mentioned would play a massive part. Like I'm 21 so that just can't happen haha! A civic isn't really my thing either.

christy02

Tbh I think vags are overrated. I had a similar conundrum when buying the accord. Do circa 15-20k miles a year so diesel was a priority.

I am a bit older than 21 but still wanted something a bit out of the ordinary. Just couldn't bring myself to buy a skoda (no offense) and wanted a good spec which they don't have.

The 1.9tdi engine is similar to a tractor engine and didn't want to play Russian roulette with the 2.0tdi from that era. 3 series a bit small for me and couldn't quite stretch to a decent 5 series.

Saab 93 was something I considered. Have you looked at those? Nice spec and decent fiat engine.

Mainly vags don't interest me but each to their own. Avensis or corolla d4d engines are reliable as always if a little dull.

adammcknight

christy02 wrote: »

Tbh I think vags are overrated. I had a similar conundrum when buying the accord. Do circa 15-20k miles a year so diesel was a priority.

I am a bit older than 21 but sti6ll wanted something a bit out of the ordinary. Just couldn't bring myself to buy a skoda (no offense) and wanted a good spec which they don't have.

The 1.9tdi engine is similar to a tractor engine and didn't want to play Russian roulette with the 2.0tdi from that era. 3 series a bit small for me and couldn't quite stretch to a decent 5 series.

Saab 93 was something I considered. Have you looked at those? Nice spec and decent fiat engine.

Mainly vags don't interest me but each to their own. Avensis or corolla d4d engines are reliable as always if a little dull.

Tbh I'd love an accord. Hear great stories and reviews about them but really I think a 2.2 would be too thirsty for my driving. And also the tax and insurance would set me back big time. I do share your opinion on the Skodas though... Not really a fan overall and thrown off by the looks for a start.

Actually no I haven't looked much into saabs...I'll give them a search! Cheers! Yeah I agree with avensis amd corrolla... Boring boring... I'd like something with a bit of life in it

stuba

Torn between a 1.6 Focus TDCI 08/09 and a i30 CRDI 08/09. Have always wanted a Focus but hearing about the problems with the engine has been a major turn off for me with regards to it. A friend of mine has bought a i30 recently and it seems like a really nice car and the interior is much nicer than some of the Focus's ive seen.

Any recommendations?

NIMAN

Focus is a really big seller, and to be honest I had never heard about the engine problem until this thread.

Remember that you might buy a Focus and never experience any problems (like me) or you could buy a i30 and get a bad one. Thats the nature of cars.

professore

I have an 05 Focus diesel with 205K km on the clock and going strong. It had it's #3 injector seal go there about 12 months ago, fixed by indy garage and touch wood ok since. It's a cheap fix if spotted in time but will take out the turbo and engine with it if left for any length of time. Symptoms are engine clatters more than usual and black deposit buildup around injector. The black deposit is carbon, it clogs the oil pipe to the turbo, the turbo fails, breaks up, and fires bits of itself into the engine and very high speed (turbo spins at over 100K RPM !!!!). Not good.

More here: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/39852-how-can-i-prevent-a-major-turbo-failure-focus-16-tdci-05/

JohnBoy26

stuba wrote: »

Torn between a 1.6 Focus TDCI 08/09 and a i30 CRDI 08/09. Have always wanted a Focus but hearing about the problems with the engine has been a major turn off for me with regards to it. A friend of mine has bought a i30 recently and it seems like a really nice car and the interior is much nicer than some of the Focus's ive seen.

Any recommendations?

out of the two the i30 is the better option. The engine in the focus can be problematic.

almostover

christy02 wrote: »

Tbh I think vags are overrated. I had a similar conundrum when buying the accord. Do circa 15-20k miles a year so diesel was a priority.

I am a bit older than 21 but still wanted something a bit out of the ordinary. Just couldn't bring myself to buy a skoda (no offense) and wanted a good spec which they don't have.

The 1.9tdi engine is similar to a tractor engine and didn't want to play Russian roulette with the 2.0tdi from that era. 3 series a bit small for me and couldn't quite stretch to a decent 5 series.

Saab 93 was something I considered. Have you looked at those? Nice spec and decent fiat engine.

Mainly vags don't interest me but each to their own. Avensis or corolla d4d engines are reliable as always if a little dull.

Have the same fiat lump in my Vectra Sri 1.9CDTi and its a peach of an engine. Just have to watch out for swirl flap issues and if they do go I can recommend a cheap and permanent fix without needing a new Intake manifold. This engine is good for 50MPG and is really smooth and quiet.

stuba

Are the engines in the 2010 models any better than the older 08 models? I understand that the problems arent wholesale but just bad luck in some cases.

ferry17

The Honda Civic 2002-2005 1.7ctdi could be an option. Looks good, great fuel economy, reliable. owned one a while back and loved it.

colm_mcm

ferry17 wrote: »

The Honda Civic 2002-2005 1.7ctdi could be an option. Looks good, great fuel economy, reliable. owned one a while back and loved it.

How much did it go for in the end?

ferry17

colm_mcm wrote: »

How much did it go for in the end?

got 3800e in the end. Second hand market is so vast, unless some1 is lookin for that particular car, they can take a while to shift.