Make up your own rules

Riskymove

following on from a few threads about recent driving experiences, I thought I'd add my own

while driving to a nearby train station myself and another car in front of me found ourselves behind a rather slow moving vehicle.

It's a narrow country road with not too much opportunity to overtake and the one stretch of road had oncoming traffic.

as you come to the station there is a roundabout and when it became clear that the slow moving car was going the same direction...the car in front of me decided enough was enough and drove the wrong way around the roundabout to get ahead of the car!

in his mind I guess he felt he was justified

colm_mcm

Sounds like a risky move alright

Riskymove

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sounds like a risky move alright

like I haven't heard that one before!!

JohnBoy26

apt username :P

corktina

oh yes, didn't spot that!

Noccy_Mondy

That's just pure stupidity. Shouldn't be on the road if he hasn't got patience, and God knows we need a lot of it!

No Pants

Riskymove wrote: »

as you come to the station there is a roundabout and when it became clear that the slow moving car was going the same direction...the car in front of me decided enough was enough and drove the wrong way around the roundabout to get ahead of the car!

Was this into the station carpark or something?

greenflash

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

That's just pure stupidity. Shouldn't be on the road if he hasn't got patience, and God knows we need a lot of it!

Selfishness and impatience are pretty much the defining characteristics of Irish driving these days.

dgt

That occasionally happens to me at this roundabout. Needless to say, I take a very dim view of that act

How much of a dick do you have to be to do something like that beats me

Arbiter of Good Taste

Yesterday I'm coming up to a relatively large and busy junction in the northside of Dublin. A number of cars were ahead of me and by the time I approached the lights it had turned orange. Knowing I would not make it before the light turned red I proceeded to break. The car behind me actually overtook me and broke the red light.

Jesus wept

No Pants

It doesn't just happen in Ireland. I've had to spend quite a bit of time in Belgium this year and one of my trips coincided with a flying visit by Monsieur Obama. I'm walking back to the hotel on my last evening of the week, looking to collect my bag and head for the airport. Traffic is well backed up at the hotel and as I get closer, I realise why. The hotel is on the outskirts of the airport and the local plod have blocked the area off by parking two buses across two of the exits. Simple yet effective.

Approaching the roadabout, I hear increased engine noise and look around to see some gob****e deciding that whatever the holdup is, it shouldn't have to affect him. He overtakes several hundred yards of stalled traffic and enters the roundabout on the wrong side...to meet approximately a dozen cops, all focused on him and with hands on gun butts. He was questioned/given a bollocking and eventually sent on his not-so-merry way once discovered to be a twat rather than a threat.

Riskymove

No Pants wrote: »

Was this into the station carpark or something?

no its on the main road with one exit being another road that leads to the station

Riskymove

No Pants wrote: »

It doesn't just happen in Ireland. I've had to spend quite a bit of time in Belgium .

lived and drove in Brussels

maniacs the lot of em

H3llR4iser

greenflash wrote: »

Selfishness and impatience are pretty much the defining characteristics of Irish driving these days.

Certainly, but a driver blocking up traffic behind him/her is just as selfish, more self-entitled ("I go slow therefore I can do no wrong") and smilarly dangerous as they will make other drivers run out of patience and potentially attempt silly things. It doesn't justify outrageous maneuvers like the one described the tiniest bit, but if you are not capable or not willing to move around without being a constant inconvenience for the rest of the traffic, you should sell the car and buy a bus pass.

corktina

...or be polite and pull over....

keithclancy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Certainly, but a driver blocking up traffic behind him/her is just as selfish, more self-entitled ("I go slow therefore I can do no wrong") and smilarly dangerous as they will make other drivers run out of patience and potentially attempt silly things. It doesn't justify outrageous maneuvers like the one described the tiniest bit, but if you are not capable or not willing to move around without being a constant inconvenience for the rest of the traffic, you should sell the car and buy a bus pass.

Or sometimes its:
30km/h speed limit
Poor road surface
Road works
Lots of pedestrians
Narrow streets/Parked cars
Poor Visibility

I drive as fast as the conditions allow, if the pleb behind me doesn't see the danger then that's his/her problem.

H3llR4iser

corktina wrote: »

...or be polite and pull over....

In that case, they are willing not to be a roadblock and would not fall into the category.

keithclancy wrote: »

Or sometimes its:
30km/h speed limit
Poor road surface
Road works
Lots of pedestrians
Narrow streets/Parked cars
Poor Visibility

I drive as fast as the conditions allow, if the pleb behind me doesn't see the danger then that's his/her problem.

Again, outside of the concept. There's a very valid justification in such cases. You know exactly what kind of driver we're talking about here, anyway.

keithclancy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Again, outside of the concept. There's a very valid justification in such cases. You know exactly what kind of driver we're talking about here, anyway.

Not really.

You just mention someone driving slowly, in the majority of cases I see where someone loses patience its because someone is in front of them and the perception is they are driving too slowly.

They real reason they lose patience is because someone is in front of them not because of the speed they are travelling.

corktina

keithclancy wrote: »

Or sometimes its:
30km/h speed limit
Poor road surface
Road works
Lots of pedestrians
Narrow streets/Parked cars
Poor Visibility

I drive as fast as the conditions allow, if the pleb behind me doesn't see the danger then that's his/her problem.

I never have anything behind me.... and yet I am not generally driving as fast as conditions allow...I am constantly restricting my speed so as not to exceed the speed limit by too much. Maybe you should consider moving over and allowing that pleb past you (might be me!)

H3llR4iser

keithclancy wrote: »

Not really.

You just mention someone driving slowly, in the majority of cases I see where someone loses patience its because someone is in front of them and the perception is they are driving too slowly.

They real reason they lose patience is because someone is in front of them not because of the speed they are travelling.

So, let's say I was driving very slowly, maybe 30 kph on a perfectly fine road with a limit of 60, maybe 80; I am going 30 km/h because I am a bit worried, don't know the road, my skills aren't too great and maybe I don't drive so often. I am also driving with my right wheels touching the middle line, as I'm afraid of the ditch on the side.

In my head, I'm keeping a perfectly fine speed considering my skills and lack of familiarity with the surroundings, and there's no reason why I should just move over and let other cars pass or, more likely, realize that hailing a cab would have been a better idea?

dr.fuzzenstein

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Certainly, but a driver blocking up traffic behind him/her is just as selfish, more self-entitled ("I go slow therefore I can do no wrong") and smilarly dangerous as they will make other drivers run out of patience and potentially attempt silly things. It doesn't justify outrageous maneuvers like the one described the tiniest bit, but if you are not capable or not willing to move around without being a constant inconvenience for the rest of the traffic, you should sell the car and buy a bus pass.

Problem is the lack of self- awareness. Their thought process goes like:
"I'm a safe driver! I know how to drive, me Da taught me in our Morris Minor in 1973, I haven't needed a single lesson since! Those RSA ads are a lot of nonsense, it's all wrong, except for the speed! I go everywhere at 40 mph, it's the best speed for any situation and I can look over the wall at my cattle. I've been driving for 40 years, I don't need some jumped up cop or road safety campaigner to tell me how to drive!"

I was once guilty of overtaking by going round a roundabout the wrong way.
I was coming from Ennis (a long time ago, before the motorway) and going to Shannon. Very early in the morning and there was a tractor ahead of me. He deliberately blocked me all the way from just before Dromoland Castle, through Newmarket on Fergus and up to the roundabout after.
He was basically holding me up on purpose and actively blocking me from overtaking by moving out.
When I saw he was turning right where I was going, I snapped and managed to cut him off and make the exit just an inch before him.
Funnily enough he found the gaspedal when he noticed I might make it past him.
Of course he complained me the prick, the lesson is not do do that in a marked company van...
It was a long time ago and I was young and reckless. Needless to say I would approach the situation differently today.
Things have gotten a lot better in recent years, but in the 90's the standard of driving in Ireland was diabolical. You only got two kinds of drivers, auld lad farmers driving 40 mph and deliberately blocking anyone from passing and suicidal speed demons who would drive through the ditch on the opposing side to get past the former.

aujopimur

I thought I heard it all until a few days ago, at a mini RA a driver pulled out from my left as I was about to drive straight on, I honked at him to which he replied that I should have yielded to him.

Gazzmonkey

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Problem is the lack of self- awareness. Their thought process goes like:
"I'm a safe driver! I know how to drive, me Da taught me in our Morris Minor in 1973, I haven't needed a single lesson since! Those RSA ads are a lot of nonsense, it's all wrong, except for the speed! I go everywhere at 40 mph, it's the best speed for any situation and I can look over the wall at my cattle. I've been driving for 40 years, I don't need some jumped up cop or road safety campaigner to tell me how to drive!"

Here Here!!! Couldn't agree more.

I have a nightmare to deal with every morning and evening on my work commute, the section of road that pains me the most is the Rathnew to Rathdrum road in Wicklow as it is plagued with 30mph drivers to whole way from one town to the next.

keithclancy

corktina wrote: »

I never have anything behind me.... and yet I am not generally driving as fast as conditions allow...I am constantly restricting my speed so as not to exceed the speed limit by too much. Maybe you should consider moving over and allowing that pleb past you (might be me!)

H3llR4iser wrote: »

So, let's say I was driving very slowly, maybe 30 kph on a perfectly fine road with a limit of 60, maybe 80; I am going 30 km/h because I am a bit worried, don't know the road, my skills aren't too great and maybe I don't drive so often. I am also driving with my right wheels touching the middle line, as I'm afraid of the ditch on the side.

In my head, I'm keeping a perfectly fine speed considering my skills and lack of familiarity with the surroundings, and there's no reason why I should just move over and let other cars pass or, more likely, realize that hailing a cab would have been a better idea?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Problem is the lack of self- awareness. Their thought process goes like:
"I'm a safe driver! I know how to drive, me Da taught me in our Morris Minor in 1973, I haven't needed a single lesson since! Those RSA ads are a lot of nonsense, it's all wrong, except for the speed! I go everywhere at 40 mph, it's the best speed for any situation and I can look over the wall at my cattle. I've been driving for 40 years, I don't need some jumped up cop or road safety campaigner to tell me how to drive!"

I was once guilty of overtaking by going round a roundabout the wrong way.
I was coming from Ennis (a long time ago, before the motorway) and going to Shannon. Very early in the morning and there was a tractor ahead of me. He deliberately blocked me all the way from just before Dromoland Castle, through Newmarket on Fergus and up to the roundabout after.
He was basically holding me up on purpose and actively blocking me from overtaking by moving out.
When I saw he was turning right where I was going, I snapped and managed to cut him off and make the exit just an inch before him.
Funnily enough he found the gaspedal when he noticed I might make it past him.
Of course he complained me the prick, the lesson is not do do that in a marked company van...
It was a long time ago and I was young and reckless. Needless to say I would approach the situation differently today.
Things have gotten a lot better in recent years, but in the 90's the standard of driving in Ireland was diabolical. You only got two kinds of drivers, auld lad farmers driving 40 mph and deliberately blocking anyone from passing and suicidal speed demons who would drive through the ditch on the opposing side to get past the former.

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Here Here!!! Couldn't agree more.

I have a nightmare to deal with every morning and evening on my work commute, the section of road that pains me the most is the Rathnew to Rathdrum road in Wicklow as it is plagued with 30mph drivers to whole way from one town to the next.

Wow, I love these pointless threads, a hypothetical topic of conversation with ever changing variables that is a complete waste of everyones time.

My point is, when driving in Ireland I see more instances of overtaking in a dangerous way occuring far more frequently than a person driving below the speed limit

On a single carriageway I'll drive whatever speed is safe and not worry about the guy behind me, if its safe for them to overtake then they can overtake when its safe to do so.

This pulling half assed into the so called hard shoulder that exists on N roads in Ireland in a lot of cases can put you in a bad situation.

On an N road in the Netherlands there is no hard shoulder to pull into. They exist for tractors but that's about it.

No Pants

keithclancy wrote: »

This pulling half assed into the so called hard shoulder that exists on N roads in Ireland in a lot of cases can put you in a bad situation.

A rough surface, littered with debris from the main lanes and frequently used as an extra lane by people who pull out of sideroads at an inappropriate speed to join the main carriageway.

corktina

keithclancy wrote: »

Wow, I love these pointless threads, a hypothetical topic of conversation with ever changing variables that is a complete waste of everyones time.

My point is, when driving in Ireland I see more instances of overtaking in a dangerous way occuring far more frequently than a person driving below the speed limit

On a single carriageway I'll drive whatever speed is safe and not worry about the guy behind me, if its safe for them to overtake then they can overtake when its safe to do so.

This pulling half assed into the so called hard shoulder that exists on N roads in Ireland in a lot of cases can put you in a bad situation.

On an N road in the Netherlands there is no hard shoulder to pull into. They exist for tractors but that's about it.

you are driving at a speed you consider safe but others obvious disagree with you. I think you might be part of the problem. Are you particularly nervous or inexperienced?

ba_barabus

corktina wrote: »

you are driving at a speed you consider safe but others obvious disagree with you. I think you might be part of the problem. Are you particularly nervous or inexperienced?

Am I right in saying Keith has a pretty sweet bike?

keithclancy

corktina wrote: »

you are driving at a speed you consider safe but others obvious disagree with you. I think you might be part of the problem. Are you particularly nervous or inexperienced?

I dunno .. my average speed between the border crossing at Roermond and end of the motorway at Dusseldorf this morning was somewhere between 180 and 200km/h that's perfectly safe for the conditions.

But the N road in Roermond is focked at the moment, driving too fast (over 30km/h) you kick up small stones on the cars behind you, also there's temporary lanes which don't really have enough space to drive in an expedient manner.

Yet there'll be someone behind you tailgating over will try to overtake/undertake because your going too slow on the N road

I've seen two crashes where they ran out of space and into a concrete barrier, I guess they can't read Dutch or just can't read.

Arbiter of Good Taste

aujopimur wrote: »

I thought I heard it all until a few days ago, at a mini RA a driver pulled out from my left as I was about to drive straight on, I honked at him to which he replied that I should have yielded to him.

Half the people on the road don't know how to navigate a roundabout.

Have a look at their faces. If they look a bit gormless, the likelihood is they don't have a clue how to drive around a RA

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

Wow, I love these pointless threads, a hypothetical topic of conversation with ever changing variables that is a complete waste of everyones time.

My point is, when driving in Ireland I see more instances of overtaking in a dangerous way occuring far more frequently than a person driving below the speed limit

On a single carriageway I'll drive whatever speed is safe and not worry about the guy behind me, if its safe for them to overtake then they can overtake when its safe to do so.

This pulling half assed into the so called hard shoulder that exists on N roads in Ireland in a lot of cases can put you in a bad situation.

On an N road in the Netherlands there is no hard shoulder to pull into. They exist for tractors but that's about it.

If there is always someone (or maybe about 20 someones) behind you on the hop to overtake, you're doing something wrong.
If you find people are aggressive and pull crazy stunts to get past you, then you are driving excessively slow and needlessly causing a dangerous situation where lots of people will overtake you. One day you could be caught up in a crash because of your dangerous and selfish behaviour.
I also drive backroads and the amount of cars that dangerously overtake me or tailgate me is zero. And I drive to achieve as close to 50 mpg as I can, so I'm not exactly a speed demon.

H3llR4iser

keithclancy wrote: »

Wow, I love these pointless threads, a hypothetical topic of conversation with ever changing variables that is a complete waste of everyones time.

keithclancy wrote: »

My point is, when driving in Ireland I see more instances of overtaking in a dangerous way occuring far more frequently than a person driving below the speed limit.

We clearly drive on different roads. Every time I'm out of the city, I stumble upon at least one extremely slow drivers that form long lines of cars behind them as they also make sure nobody overtakes them - driving in the middle of the road, speeding up as somebody attempts an overtake and so on. Only rarely I see somebody doing something really idiotic in order to get past them.

keithclancy wrote: »

On a single carriageway I'll drive whatever speed is safe and not worry about the guy behind me, if its safe for them to overtake then they can overtake when its safe to do so.

This pulling half assed into the so called hard shoulder that exists on N roads in Ireland in a lot of cases can put you in a bad situation.

On an N road in the Netherlands there is no hard shoulder to pull into. They exist for tractors but that's about it.

You are following the same exact thought process, but somehow you deem yourself to be on a better plane of existence than the people who come up with absurd maneuvers: "I do whatever I want, they should p1ss off". Quite simply, if you deem a certain speed or conduct appropriate and such conduct is creating an impediment in the flow of traffic, your evaluation is wrong.

Alias G

corktina wrote: »

you are driving at a speed you consider safe but others obvious disagree with you. I think you might be part of the problem. Are you particularly nervous or inexperienced?

Unfortunately, simply motoring at the local speed limit is enough to exhaust the patience a lot of Irish motorists. The problem doesn't lie with people driving too slowly. They are a tiny minority in my experience. The problem lies with the far greater numbers who are more than happy to flout the speed limit and become indignant when they encounter someone travelling at a slower but appropriate speed.

keithclancy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

You are following the same exact thought process, but somehow you deem yourself to be on a better plane of existence than the people who come up with absurd maneuvers: "I do whatever I want, they should p1ss off". Quite simply, if you deem a certain speed or conduct appropriate and such conduct is creating an impediment in the flow of traffic, your evaluation is wrong.

I think your inventing a scenarios in your head, remember over here we don't have hard shoulders on N roads.

How do you mean a line of cars ? isn't there always a line of cars when there's a lot of cars on the road.

Who should get out of the way exactly ?

Everyone for the guy down the back ?

If the road is icy/foggy/wet/covered in debris we should just drive at the limit to make sure some nutter won't get p!ssed off and do something stupid ?

Or if you don't overtake quickly enough then you might piss off the third car in the row .. isn't that bad as well ?

If you have a problem with the car in front being 'too slow' then just overtake them when its safe to do so.

If its not possible to do it safely then wait for it to be possible.

This is another fog light/lane hogging waste of time thread

I think the only time i've caused a slow moving queue of traffic was in Bavaria driving a 6 berth camper van

No Pants

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Quite simply, if you deem a certain speed or conduct appropriate and such conduct is creating an impediment in the flow of traffic, your evaluation is wrong.

Really? I don't drive very far or very often, but when I do, it's generally as fast as I can and north of whatever the legal limit is. I'm much more likely to catch someone than have anyone catch me.

However, when I'm coming home from work and I'm nearing home, I slow down significantly, often scrubbing off 50 - 70 kph from what I was doing a minute earlier. I can then get people tailgaiting etc, but I don't care. I know that I've just entered a residential area. I know that there are buses around with people getting on and off. I know that it's home time for the local school kids. I know that there are football fields there with football games being played. I know that there's a busy shop. All of this leads to a lot of young pedestrian and cycle traffic that can behave in an erratic fashion and if anyone thinks that I'm going to drive to their speed and risk the rest of my life just so that they can avoid being delayed for what is only a handful of seconds, they can ****ing go and ****e.

Drive to the conditions; the ones that you know.

jca

keithclancy wrote: »

Wow, I love these pointless threads, a hypothetical topic of conversation with ever changing variables that is a complete waste of everyones time.

My point is, when driving in Ireland I see more instances of overtaking in a dangerous way occuring far more frequently than a person driving below the speed limit

On a single carriageway I'll drive whatever speed is safe and not worry about the guy behind me, if its safe for them to overtake then they can overtake when its safe to do so.

This pulling half assed into the so called hard shoulder that exists on N roads in Ireland in a lot of cases can put you in a bad situation.

On an N road in the Netherlands there is no hard shoulder to pull into. They exist for tractors but that's about it.

Toyota driver........

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

I think your inventing a scenarios in your head, remember over here we don't have hard shoulders on N roads.

How do you mean a line of cars ? isn't there always a line of cars when there's a lot of cars on the road.

Who should get out of the way exactly ?

Everyone for the guy down the back ?

If the road is icy/foggy/wet/covered in debris we should just drive at the limit to make sure some nutter won't get p!ssed off and do something stupid ?

Or if you don't overtake quickly enough then you might piss off the third car in the row .. isn't that bad as well ?

If you have a problem with the car in front being 'too slow' then just overtake them when its safe to do so.

If its not possible to do it safely then wait for it to be possible.

This is another fog light/lane hogging waste of time thread

I think the only time i've caused a slow moving queue of traffic was in Bavaria driving a 6 berth camper van

Look, it's really simple.
If you constantly have a queue of 20 cars behind you (and I don't mean you personally) and are likely to say things like "Jesus, people are SO aggressive on the road, everyone is beeping me, flashing me and people pull crazy, insane stunts to get past me!", it is safe to say that in this case you are going to slow.

keithclancy

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Look, it's really simple.
If you constantly have a queue of 20 cars behind you (and I don't mean you personally) and are likely to say things like "Jesus, people are SO aggressive on the road, everyone is beeping me, flashing me and people pull crazy, insane stunts to get past me!", it is safe to say that in this case you are going to slow.

Or the person behind you is Belgian :pac:

I don't think I've ever had anyone overtake me on an N road come to think of it.

Nah that never happens, maybe on an Average speed camera stretch but there's nothing I can do about that

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

Or the person behind you is Belgian :pac:

I don't think I've ever had anyone overtake me on an N road come to think of it.

Should be grand so, we're more talking about the sort of "elderly country gentleman" trundling along at 40-60 km/h with one wheel on the white line to make sure no bastard gets past him.
Haven't seen many Belgians when I lived in Germany, we usually used to swear at the Dutch and their caravans.