Drinking water supply. Rented House

aliaslinden

So I've been living in a rented house in Galway since last June and I've always thought that the main kitchen sink tap is coming from the tank in the loft and not the mains. This was mainly because our neighbour ( a retired plumber) mentioned that he didn't think it was, which makes sense since there is very little pressure from that tap. He also said it wouldn't really be safe to drink that water or prepare food with it.

I don't drink the water, my housemates do and they're fine with it. But we all use it for food prep and tea etc. The house was renovated four years ago but the landlord says he doesn't know if the tap is mains or not. Really, my question is, should I be concerned about not having mains water supply in the kitchen and if so , how do I get my landlord to possibly change this?

Any help appreciated. Thanks

Graces7

aliaslinden wrote: »

So I've been living in a rented house in Galway since last June and I've always thought that the main kitchen sink tap is coming from the tank in the loft and not the mains. This was mainly because our neighbour ( a retired plumber) mentioned that he didn't think it was, which makes sense since there is very little pressure from that tap. He also said it wouldn't really be safe to drink that water or prepare food with it.

I don't drink the water, my housemates do and they're fine with it. But we all use it for food prep and tea etc. The house was renovated four years ago but the landlord says he doesn't know if the tap is mains or not. Really, my question is, should I be concerned about not having mains water supply in the kitchen and if so , how do I get my landlord to possibly change this?

Any help appreciated. Thanks

ok, so if the tank in the loft is not filling from the
mains, where is it filling from?

if he means it is a private spring then he must know and surely he should get it professionally tested periodically.

if it is a rural area could be unsafe indeed.

very odd he says he does not know

if in doubt, check with threshold about his legal obligations on this

L1011

Where the tank fills from isn't the issue...

Council inspection is probably the way forward.

looksee

As MYOB says, where the tank is filling from is not the issue, its the fact that the water goes through a storage tank on the way to the tap. This should not happen, there could be anything stagnating in the tank, as its probably an open tank in the attic!

You need to get it checked out, but you could check it in a rough and ready way by flushing a toilet, then listening in the upstairs to see if you can hear the attic tank filling, if you can, put the kitchen tap on and see if you can hear the same filling noise.

handlemaster

Kitchen tap should always be feed from thr mains as water stored in the attic tank can become contaminated.

ted1

It should be a straight forward test.

turn off the mains, it should be at the front of the house. does the tap still work?

OR

Turn on tap and go to attic, is the water been drawn?


No need for a council inspection.

L1011

ted1 wrote: »

No need for a council inspection.

Council are likely the only ones to force what seems to be an extremely disinterested landlord to rectify it if it is an issue, though.

aliaslinden

thanks for all the replies!

So I checked the attic while the kitchen tap was running and it the tank is being refilled so I assume that means that it's not coming from the mains. There is little water pressure in that tap which would indicate the same.

Our landlord isn't a bad one. We are nearing the end of the lease and annoying that he didn't tell us that the kitchen water is potentially unsafe to drink. Not sure what to do next really.

EDIT: we have had some issues with the washing machine and dishwasher in the kitchen. Shouldn't these be connected to the mains though? And if so, why didn't the connect the sink too?

The_Conductor

In all likelihood there probably is no issue with the water- but it is something that really should be resolved.

ZENER

aliaslinden wrote: »

EDIT: we have had some issues with the washing machine and dishwasher in the kitchen. Shouldn't these be connected to the mains though? And if so, why didn't the connect the sink too?

Washing machines and dishwashers need the pressure of mains water to operate properly unless they've been designed not to. Perhaps this is why you had problems with them ?

Ken

aliaslinden

ZENER wrote: »

Washing machines and dishwashers need the pressure of mains water to operate properly unless they've been designed not to. Perhaps this is why you had problems with them ?

Ken

yeah that makes sense to me. Landlord has got back to me and said it's the first he's heard of it. Surprising since the house was renovated in 2010. He's going to call around to "check the pipes" next week.

No Pants

aliaslinden wrote: »

Landlord has got back to me and said it's the first he's heard of it.

Pay no heed, that's a standard response. If there are consequences to this, he could be found negligent.

Graces7

so it is coming from a spring?

Ray Palmer

ZENER wrote: »

Washing machines and dishwashers need the pressure of mains water to operate properly unless they've been designed not to. Perhaps this is why you had problems with them ?

Ken

That is news to me. Washing machines are not meant to be connected to mains according to Irish building regs. I don't know why they would need any pressure at all. They fill then use the water no need for pressure.

No Pants

aliaslinden wrote: »

He's going to call around to "check the pipes" next week.

Is he a plumber? If he isn't, this is just stalling.

Ray Palmer

No Pants wrote: »

Is he a plumber? If he isn't, this is just stalling.

Why? I am not a plumber and I can do plumbing. It isn't exactly difficult to re-plumb a tap to the mains. Maybe take 20 minutes if you are slow.

foggy_lad

Attic water tanks are liable to contamination from vermin such as mice rats and pigeons. if there is pigeons droppings in the water it is a serious health risk.

ZENER

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is news to me. Washing machines are not meant to be connected to mains according to Irish building regs. I don't know why they would need any pressure at all. They fill then use the water no need for pressure.

If you have a link to those regs I'm sure it would help the OP. As these appliances tend to be in the kitchen, where the only cold water supply is direct off the mains, this is normally what they are connected to.

Installation instructions for washing machines state they need to be connected to a mains supply or a supply with a certain pressure range.

Ken

The_Conductor

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is news to me. Washing machines are not meant to be connected to mains according to Irish building regs. I don't know why they would need any pressure at all. They fill then use the water no need for pressure.

It depends on the washing machine.
My Indesit- insists on mains connection for cold connection, and states not to connect the hot connector, unless you have a pressure booster bringing the pressure up to between 25-30 psi (2 bar roughly).

The_Conductor

foggy_lad wrote: »

Attic water tanks are liable to contamination from vermin such as mice rats and pigeons. if there is pigeons droppings in the water it is a serious health risk.

Most modern houses are not liable to these sorts of contaminants. A far bigger issue would be sludge buildup from dust- but even this would take years to accumulate before it was an issue that required action.

Ray Palmer

ZENER wrote: »

If you have a link to those regs I'm sure it would help the OP. As these appliances tend to be in the kitchen, where the only cold water supply is direct off the mains, this is normally what they are connected to.

Installation instructions for washing machines state they need to be connected to a mains supply or a supply with a certain pressure range.

Ken

That is normally why both mains and tank feeds are in your kitchen. The hot water tap has to basically come from the same route as it is fed by the tank. The pressure from a tank in your attic is very rarely not enough pressure. After that you probably have a pump to increase the pressure from the water tank like in an apartment.

Building regs remain easily searchable on Google. Washing machines manufactures do not change our building regs. It is very normal for a lazy plumber to do what is convenient still won't make it right. This is probably why the sink has been plumbed to the tank rather than the mains.

M_C_L

OP

whatever you got diluted here while reading, I just recommend if you ask your landlord to come down, turn the kitchen tap, bring him to the attic and say: ''it isn't right, can you fix it?'' then say: ''all what you need to do is to close the main valve, cut the mains pipe close the the cold water tank in the attic. Drain the cold water tank, insert ''T'' sort of the connector 1/2'' X 1/2'' x 1/2''. Disconnect the pipe which runs to the kitchen tap at the tank, connect this pipe to the earlier installed ''T'', secure the unattended pipe from cold water tank with the Cap. Job done. you will have a fresh drinking water from now on. 30min max.

ZENER

That all assumes that the mains water runs by the kitchen sink. I'd put my money on it not being there. If the plumber was that lazy then why would he have run the cold mains to the attic and then run 2 more pipes back down making 3 pipes ? My guess is that the cold mains isn't running that way since the renovations.

With regard the building regs, the practice of plumbers connecting appliances to the mains water system was a matter for concern back in 1992 !! The 2008 regs concur, so who knew !!

I've always connected my appliances to the mains, mostly because that was the most convenient supply. Either way it would seem the LL got the job done on the cheap or did it himself even !!

Ken

L1011

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is normally why both mains and tank feeds are in your kitchen.

Can't say I've actually seen a house that has that, though. Not that I go rooting under the sink in other people's houses that often but all I've lived in have fed any white goods in the kitchen off mains. That said, the one built in 2005 was the worst condition house I'd ever lived in, including the pre-famine on in that comparison; so compliance with the building regs was clearly not that builders main concern!

No Pants

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Why? I am not a plumber and I can do plumbing. It isn't exactly difficult to re-plumb a tap to the mains. Maybe take 20 minutes if you are slow.

That's great if it's a straightforward job. It may not be though and perhaps that's why it is set up the way it is right now.

aliaslinden

ZENER wrote: »

That all assumes that the mains water runs by the kitchen sink. I'd put my money on it not being there. If the plumber was that lazy then why would he have run the cold mains to the attic and then run 2 more pipes back down making 3 pipes ? My guess is that the cold mains isn't running that way since the renovations.

With regard the building regs, the practice of plumbers connecting appliances to the mains water system was a matter for concern back in [! The 2008 regs concur, so who knew !!

I've always connected my appliances to the mains, mostly because that was the most convenient supply. Either way it would seem the LL got the job done on the cheap or did it himself even !!

Ken

So do you think not having mains supply would cause issues with the washing machine/dishwasher? Our dishwasher has had problems with a smell coming from the water intake.

We do have a mains tap in the alley outside the kitchen window so not sure what that means. M_C_L, I'll pass on what you said about fixing the supply, it makes sense to me.

Thanks for all the replies, will keep updating after landlord visit.

M_C_L

aliaslinden wrote: »

So do you think not having mains supply would cause issues with the washing machine/dishwasher? Our dishwasher has had problems with a smell coming from the water intake.

We do have a mains tap in the alley outside the kitchen window so not sure what that means. M_C_L, I'll pass on what you said about fixing the supply, it makes sense to me.

Thanks for all the replies, will keep updating after landlord visit.

If the water intake is also connected to the cold water tank, then this is the answer to the smell. Mains would give access to fresh water.

Ray Palmer

No Pants wrote: »

That's great if it's a straightforward job. It may not be though and perhaps that's why it is set up the way it is right now.

It can't be anything but straight forward. The water tank is fed by the mains. The water to the tap comes from the tank. You just connect the mains to the tap feed while keeping the tank feeding the tank. It is very straight forward and can't be difficult. It is as it is out of laziness most likely after that just a mistake.

Ray Palmer

M_C_L wrote: »

If the water intake is also connected to the cold water tank, then this is the answer to the smell. Mains would give access to fresh water.

If the water in your tank smells that is a problem. The water in your bathroom comes from that tank. The water most people brush their teeth with. :eek:
The water from a tank is pretty fresh as the water changes in most houses on a daily basis. If the water from it smells I would go look in the tank and make sure nothing is in it.

M_C_L

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If the water in your tank smells that is a problem. The water in your bathroom comes from that tank. The water most people brush their teeth with. :eek:
The water from a tank is pretty fresh as the water changes in most houses on a daily basis. If the water from it smells I would go look in the tank and make sure nothing is in it.

yep, in most houses yes, but imagine large uncovered tank with one or two living in the house. Water in the attic gets easily contaminated, plus grown bacterias on the inner walls of the tank, perhaps only once a week or so this gets to washing machine, washing machine partially heats already not so fresh water, just my thesis. - I am most likely wrong

ZENER

Here's a kind of related scenario.

I buy a washing machine which requires connection to the main water supply of a premises as stated by the manufacturer in the documentation.

The machine is connected in accordance with Irish Building Regs to the attic tank.

The machine subsequently gives problems and the manufacturer or store send out an engineer to check it only to find it's not connected in accordance with the manufacturers requirements.

Who reimburses the customer in these circumstances if the shop refuses to entertain me ? I have, after all, not complied with the manufacturers fitting instructions.

More a thought provoker than a question but your opinions would be interesting.

Ken

Atlantic Dawn

ZENER wrote: »

Who reimburses the customer in these circumstances if the shop refuses to entertain me ? I have, after all, not complied with the manufacturers fitting instructions.

More a thought provoker than a question but your opinions would be interesting.

Ken

Interesting point, I suppose in an ideal world if the Irish Building Regs state that it should be connected to the attic tank it should not be legal for any shop in the country to sell a washing machine which advises otherwise.

M_C_L

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Interesting point, I suppose in an ideal world if the Irish Building Regs state that it should be connected to the attic tank it should not be legal for any shop in the country to sell a washing machine which advises otherwise.

This is backward thinking. The regs should be amended - to allow people to wash their clothes with clean water from the mains. All EU goes in this direction.

Ray Palmer

M_C_L wrote: »

This is backward thinking. The regs should be amended - to allow people to wash their clothes with clean water from the mains. All EU goes in this direction.

If the water in your tank is not clean you have a problem and you should deal with it. All EU does not go in this direction. There is a valid reason for this to do make sure houses don't draw water unnecessarily.

If your tank is not covered buy a cover, it is in the regs to cover the tank.

The obsession with mains being some what amazingly cleaner than the tank is a little odd. Where do you think your hot water comes from? You know the stuff you clean yourself with? A hot feed washing machine comes from the tank via the boiler. The inside o a boiler is not that clean.

aah yes

Bats and rats and cats could easily find their way into attic header tanks and take a snooze. I once saw over 100 bats taking a snooze in the bottom of the attic tanks of an old house.

Someone in another house that had dead bats in their attic tank, noticed once when they opened their kitchen sink cold tap, a bat wing came poking out of the tap.

Around 95% of attic tanks that were fitted during the Celtic Tiger were installed without their matching lids to save €20 or so and boost the builders profits to save time and money, and probably not noticed by the house buyer paying top dollar.

So a tank fed water line to an otherwise potable kitchen sink cold tap sure could go unnoticed until spotted by a sharp eyed bod.


Often it is old rain tank attic fed cold water storage tanks with old style electric level switches that have gravity fed kitchen cold taps.

To convert these, ye need to remove the old level switch, fit a ball cock or float valve to the attic tank, and upgrade the pump with a pressure vessel (60L) and pressure switch. Then tee off a pipe from the outgoing pipe of the new pump arrangement to the cold kitchen sink tap.

And put a lid on the attic tank ! (scraping out any dead rats !)

Flippyfloppy

The real question is : how on earth did the neighbour even know??

aah yes

The neighbour was a plumber and noticed the low gravity pressure (typically 5 - 10 psi) instead of the usual stronger mains water pressure 40 to 60 psi.