Lunch Break Regulations

Miss.Mayhem

Is it legal to require employees to stay on the premises during an unpaid lunch break?

Miss.Mayhem

The lunch break is an hour long (sorry it wouldn't let me edit my original post).

Holsten

I can't find anything in law about it, just time not location.

Miss.Mayhem

My sister works in a crèche and on Thursday 5 members of the staff (including my sister) were scheduled by their employer to take their lunch breaks at the same time. Normally they don't leave the premises because its in a residential area and there's no restaurants in the area within walking distance (most of them don't have cars).

One of the five girls who has a car offered to drive them to a restaurant so they all left together on their official lunch break. They all arrived back to work on time. During their lunch break only two girls and their employer were at the crèche.

The employer never said anything about them all leaving together at the time or when they arrived back to work on Thursday afternoon. It was only this morning that she called them all into the office one by one to discipline them.

My sister received a written warning for leaving the premises while on her lunch break. It is the first time she's ever received any type of warning. She was told that staff couldn't leave the premises during their lunch break even though its an unpaid lunch hour and they all work 8 hour shifts.

I know their is a law that states x amount of employees have to be on the premises at all times but it was their boss that scheduled the five staff members breaks at the same time.

Is there any law that says employees of a crèche have to stay on the premises during an unpaid lunch break?

Miss.Mayhem

My sister works in a crèche and on Thursday 5 members of the staff (including my sister) were scheduled by their employer to take their lunch breaks at the same time. Normally they don't leave the premises because its in a residential area and there's no restaurants in the area within walking distance (most of them don't have cars).

One of the five girls who has a car offered to drive them to a restaurant so they all left together on their official lunch break. They all arrived back to work on time. During their lunch break only two girls and their employer were at the crèche.

The employer never said anything about them all leaving together at the time or when they arrived back to work on Thursday afternoon. It was only this morning that she called them all into the office one by one to discipline them.

My sister received a written warning for leaving the premises while on her lunch break. It is the first time she's ever received any type of warning. She was told that staff couldn't leave the premises during their lunch break even though its an unpaid lunch hour and they all work 8 hour shifts. She was never told before that she couldn't leave the premises on her break.

I know their is a law that states x amount of employees have to be on the premises at all times but it was their boss that scheduled the five staff members breaks at the same time.

Is there any law that says employees of a crèche have to stay on the premises during an unpaid lunch break?

Mikros

I would assume that if you are on a break you are no longer at the disposal of your employer, otherwise you are still working. So any requirement along those lines would seem to run against what is intended by the Organisation of Working Time Act. However I can't find anything definite on it either...

Maybe a query with the Workplace Relations Customer Services would clarify - they operate a contact centre (Lo-call*: 1890 80 80 90) which provides information on employment, equality and related legislation.

Greenmachine

Not sure about a situation requiring an employee to stay on the premises, but if you intend to leave the premises for your lunch break someone should be informed in any case. What was the nature of the warning.

Skatedude

it depends on the nature and size of the company. Bigger companies dont like people leaving the premises due to health and safety reasons. ie. if there is an evacuation for any reason then the headcount will be in error.
it can lead to rescue workers, merts and certs searching needlessly in a possible dangerous environment.
It's not against the law or such, just company rules. but most smaller companies shouldn't have a problem as it's easier to track employees.

However, Is there a minimum staff level required by law when working in a crèche based on the number of children?

winston82

Miss.Mayhem wrote: »

Is it legal to require employees to stay on the premises during an unpaid lunch break?

I'll answer your question. There is no legal requirement. You are entitled to go wherever you want on your lunch break, whether it be 1 foot outside the premises or 1 mile. Ask your employer for the part in the contract that states this where you have to stay. Then have the warning overturned.

Stheno

Skatedude wrote: »

it depends on the nature and size of the company. Bigger companies dont like people leaving the premises due to health and safety reasons. ie. if there is an evacuation for any reason then the headcount will be in error.
it can lead to rescue workers, merts and certs searching needlessly in a possible dangerous environment.
It's not against the law or such, just company rules. but most smaller companies shouldn't have a problem as it's easier to track employees.

However, Is there a minimum staff level required by law when working in a crèche based on the number of children?

There is based on the number of and ages of the children involved, I don't know them, but I'd imagine that this is what the manager is basing their warnings on, having made the assumption that all the staff would remain onsite.

Manach

Agreeing with winston82. The working time act 1997 (AFAIR) gives times of break-period and max. hours. So within that period, unless I'm guessing really unfeasible such as being on an oil-rig, so long as your are back on time from that break they'd be in no position to require you to remain on premises.

No Pants

Miss.Mayhem wrote: »

it was their boss that scheduled the five staff members breaks at the same time.

Get a copy of that break schedule and bring it home.

Sulla Felix

Stheno wrote: »

There is based on the number of and ages of the children involved, I don't know them, but I'd imagine that this is what the manager is basing their warnings on, having made the assumption that all the staff would remain onsite.

Yeah, but they should be "active" employees, engaged in caring for the children. Five girls sitting in the break room doesn't add anything to the welfare of the children being minded by a reduced complement of staff.

No Pants

Stheno wrote: »

having made the assumption that all the staff would remain onsite.

You can't engage in disciplinary behaviour based on assumptions.

Stheno

No Pants wrote: »

You can't engage in disciplinary behaviour based on assumptions.

Agreed, I think the manager is at fault here.

No Pants

OP, if the manager wants people to stay onsite during their lunch break, she can pay them.

Miss.Mayhem

Greenmachine wrote: »

What was the nature of the warning.

She was given the warning because not enough staff were on the premises to cover the legal requirements. But I don't think that's right. Surely the legal requirement for the staff/child ratio means only staff that are not on break???

Skatedude wrote: »

it depends on the nature and size of the company. Bigger companies dont like people leaving the premises due to health and safety reasons. ie. if there is an evacuation for any reason then the headcount will be in error. it can lead to rescue workers, merts and certs searching needlessly in a possible dangerous environment. It's not against the law or such, just company rules. but most smaller companies shouldn't have a problem as it's easier to track employees.

However, Is there a minimum staff level required by law when working in a crèche based on the number of children?

It's a small business with 6 or 7 full time staff and a few part-timers. There were 37 kids on the premises at the time aged 0-4.

No Pants wrote: »

Get a copy of that break schedule and bring it home.

I checked with her. She has a printout of shift rota with break times on it. I've told her to hang on to it.


Thanks everyone for all your replies!

byhookorbycrook

Mikros wrote: »

I would assume that if you are on a break you are no longer at the disposal of your employer, otherwise you are still working. So any requirement along those lines would seem to run against what is intended by the Organisation of Working Time Act. However I can't find anything definite on it either...

Maybe a query with the Workplace Relations Customer Services would clarify - they operate a contact centre (Lo-call*: 1890 80 80 90) which provides information on employment, equality and related legislation.

Unless you are a primary teacher and have to work unpaid , break or not.

fineso.mom

The manager must have made some sort of mistake. The ratio for pre-school children is 1 adult to 11 children max, it's far higher for babies and toddlers, so even if all the children were 3yrs and over, 3 staff left on the premises was not enough. The 2006 Pre-school regulations state the ratios quite clearly. The manager would most definitely know the ratios and also know that if an inspector called while the other staff were on lunch the place would very possibly have been shut down. So either she made a mistake or was relying on the fact that the staff don't normally leave the premises,in the hope that if an inspector did call she could just get the staff back into the rooms quickly. Either way it's not good.
Just another point, every worker, regardless of qualifications should be aware of staff/child ratios . Even if all 5 were scheduled off at the same time ,each one should have known that it was against regulations and none should have left until it was discussed with the manager.

Miss.Mayhem

Their boss was relying on the fact that the staff don't normally leave the premises. Most of them don't have cars and there's nowhere within walking distance for them to go to. The ones without cars normally bring in something with them to eat & stay on the premises. The boss seems to have gotten used to this and decided to use this as a means to cut costs and purposely stopped bringing in additional lunch cover.

But none of the staff were ever told they were required to stay on the premises during they're lunch break.

fineso.mom wrote: »

Even if all 5 were scheduled off at the same time ,each one should have known that it was against regulations and none should have left until it was discussed with the manager.

But what were they supposed to do then? Just not take their legally required hour break? The creche runs an after school program and they had to be back in time to collect the children in that program from their schools (from 2 different schools) so the boss had to send them on their breaks at once so they get back in time to do this.

The boss is the owner of the business. She should have known that they're wasn't enough cover and should have sent a few of them on lunch an hour earlier! It was her responsibility ultimately.

fineso.mom

Yes the manager is ultimately responsible for staffing etc and she was obviously cutting corners but the staff have a responsibility too. Child safety is the first priority over anything else and each staff member has a duty of care. That is why I said it should have been discussed with the manager before they all left. It should have been discussed with her the very first time she stopped bringing in cover for lunch time.
I absolutely don't think that your sister or any of them should have a written warning on their file but they can't just say "well it was on the Rota for us to take our lunch so it's not our problem if there were only 3 people left to look after 37 kids.".
I work in a preschool and almost every day a parent is late,,technically we are responsible for the children only until 1 o clock , should we lock up and go home leaving a child to wait for their parent on their own simply because it says on the Rota we finish at 1 and ultimately it's the parent's responsibility ?
I would suggest that the staff ,all 7 ,demand a meeting with the manager and insist on cover being provided so that everyone can take their lunch hour. Remind her that they are under no obligation to stay on the premises.
And demand she remove the warning from their files.
There should be regular staff meetings anyway to discuss issues like this , though I imagine if the manager has an attitude as described by the OP the chances are slim.

seagull

Tell your sister to refuse to accept the warning. The only way it could be at all valid was if it were in the contract of employment, and if it were, then it wouldn't be a proper break. Basically, the manager screwed up.

monflat

Did none of the staff not question " why are we all being sent on break together "

I allocate breaks at my workplace but depending on whos there whats goin on and staff feeding back its not always possible to take your break sometimes we have to go in three seperate breaks so there is cover on unit.

If you dont get your break you should report reason to manager and you shoukd be given time in lieu.

Staff need their breaks but if its not safe to leave creche you just dont down tools and leave cause its" break time "
Staff have a duty of care .

monflat

Just to add .
The manager is wrong giving your sister and co warnings .

You are entilled to go for a walk on ur break drive down to bank etc.
Its the manager who is at fault expecting staff to stay have their break and throw an eye on children if needed.

But look at it this way

If god forbid the worst happened. A child choked and died when all 5 staff were on break

All staff who were working in the creche would be questioned.
The case goes to court.
Do you think " sorry judge but our manager sent us ALL on break " do you think that would wash with the judge.

Each and every one of the employees are employed and have a contract and a job description.
In this job description each of the staff have a duty of care , have various responsilities to the child to their families and to the creche management.

The manager seems to be in the wrong and taking an authoritharian approach however im surprised that no one else reported that 5 have left the creche together we are working on unsafe numbers here and your sisters colleages or herself got a phone call to come back.

The manager seems to be cuttin corners thou