A and B

LegacyUser

Hello,

Going anonymous. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on my situation.

I had been single and, um, near-celibate, for a very looooong time - years. This was mainly to give myself time to heal from all the different fcuk-ups of relationships I used to get in to, but also, to be fair, because over the years I became very picky romantically, and it just so happens that a lot of guys who would have floated my boat in recent years, didn’t feel the same about me!

Recently, however, all that changed when I met a man, we’ll call him A. A is a very good-looking, popular, intelligent man my age, he is also definitely a bit of a party-boy and a man-child, but I will get to that later. Soon after we met (a couple of months ago), I realised there was a spark there between us, as he started pursuing me very intently, which felt nice and ego-boosting… So, in short, we’ve had some good times, and we have been “official” for a little while now.

I’ll start with what’s right first: sex with A is fantastic. This isn’t years of pent up celibacy talking either, believe me - I know what good, bad or indifferent sex is, and this feels amazing. Easily some of the best of my life. He is very giving and generous in that department, and at the same time displaying enough competence and authority so that I can honestly say, the moment I hit the sheets, I have no care in this world any more, it’s all about pleasure and enjoyment. We just click like nobody’s business, and the emotional side of sex is slowly coming into its own as well. As the trust builds, it is becoming ever more intense and satisfying.

What I also like about A is how very compliant and pleasant he is socially, which partly accounts for him being as popular as he is. He is generous with people, and interested in people. We go out a lot, and I haven’t partied this much in a very long while!

Another thing I like, A has the capacity to care. With my past baggage, this is a biggie. He cares about his family and his friends deeply, especially about some of the more vulnerable people.

Another nice thing, we pretty much have the same political views and general values. Not to be underestimated.

A is one of the most handsome guys I’ve ever been with. I’m going to be as crude here as a lot of men can be, and actually rate his looks: he is a 9 or a 10 for me! Tall, long limbs, broad shoulders, regular and manly features, great eyes.

OK, so… where’s the problem? I hear you ask... Well, the problem is that I am afraid that after all my years of singledom, in which I have kept myself fussy and picky about men I get involved with, I have now undone all that work by reverting straight back to my old type, the type of man who I could never be happy with. I’m afraid that there are some strong indications that A is a Commitment-phobe.

He practically doesn’t have a romantic past, and what he does have is very checkered and inconsequential; no long-term relationships beyond months in lasting, and more long spells of singledom than anyone I know (except myself I guess!).

Underneath all that sociable, friendly, party-boy exterior, is someone extremely sensitive, touchy, moody. You can only see that if you get close enough. It has been very easy for me so far to say the wrong thing (like a minor criticism or a comment) or do something that doesn’t suit him, and then he typically goes into a bit of a sulk where I won’t have a clue what’s happening or why, and it will be up to me to try and draw him out as best I can, and talk it out. To be fair, that has worked, more or less, but still. The sulk also happens independently of any of my “transgressions”, a variety of stuff can set it off on any given day.

There are control issues there, probably related to the above, but where I feel them even more intensely is around our arrangements for meetings. Typical texts to arrange to meet will go something like this (I hasten to add, it’s not only me initiating the texting, but the below is more illustrative of my purpose than the other way around):

ME: Hey, how are you!? Would you like to meet at a o’clock and do some b today?
A: Hey! Eh no, actually, I am tired/feel unwell/have something else on at that time, would it be ok if we meet at x o’clock and do y instead?

Bear in mind that the above isn’t just once, it is pretty much every single time that I show any initiative around organising us meeting. So what typically happens then, is I go his way, because I want to see him and be with him, but it is starting to bother me that it seemingly always has to be on his terms. I think that this is about control and the fear of relinquishing control, i.e. ultimately Commitmentphobia.

And finally, the icing on the cake: we have already had two mini freakouts happen, related to getting into and staying in a relationship. He kinda starts emphasising how independent he is and has always been, not used to being in a relationship, and how difficult it is that the option of being with other women has now been removed. To which I reply as sympathetically as I can, but leaving him in no doubt that being in an exclusive relationship is the one thing I am not about to compromise on, so if he wants another kind of relationship (e.g. an open one), he should look for someone else to have it with, and we can’t be together. After such talks, where nothing essentially gets resolved (because it can’t be without us breaking up), curiously things carry on with all normality, exactly where they have left off. I’m a bit puzzled about all that, and feel like I need some wise people’s input here.

There is something else happening, though. I have recently met another man, call him B. B is also my age. He seems to be a nice man, but not very good looking. He would be a 5 or a 6 compared to A’s 9 or 10. Indeed, put him next to A and he’d seem puny, weedy, insignificant. You get the picture.

I have talked to B a bit, and I have very recently copped on to something a bit scary happening; the more I see B, the more I want to see him. There is a connection there. Not chemistry; connection. Even without any words exchanged, I can read him, easily. B likes me a lot. Some of the past few times I have seen him, he has given me a couple of outrageous, completely out-of-left-field compliments, delivered pretty fearlessly and matter-of-factly. The kind of compliment not every man gives, and I like to think, not every woman gets. And very recently he has done something else again, something that I consider to be so brave and genuine (and which was, again, very complimentary to me) that, internally, my jaw hit the floor. (I can’t write what it is, I’m trying not to be identified.) Suffice to say, that, in relation to A, my boyfriend, there is nothing sneaky or underhanded in B’s interest in me – he is being very open about it, which is, I believe, very rare, and yes, definitely socially brave. This man seems to have a core of such authenticity to him, the kind that I have thought extinct in men nowadays, long ago.

The thing that is bothering me now, even more than figuring out how to tackle and what to do about A’s very possible and rather probable Commitmentphobia, is the fact that I have started thinking about B. All. The. Time. I can’t wait to see him again, I can’t wait to get to know him better. I’ve started wondering what it’d be like if I were with him instead of with A, if he’d make me feel secure, cared about, adored. Instead of what I’m learning to accept as the reality of the majority of time in my current relationship, i.e. feeling like things are up in the air, non-committal, difficult to pin down or understand. The feeling of constantly being on the back-foot and having a lot of the good stuff that make a relationship, rationed out to me in small doses.

A is a lovely guy. Gentle, smart, incredibly good looking, and dynamite in bed. But he is a cosseted, sulky little boy at heart who seems to have trouble with committing to a plan for an afternoon, let alone a relationship. Can I live with that?

I am starting to get a horrible feeling, the feeling that B is 10 times the man A will ever be.

Well done on reading all this, I would really appreciate any helpful thoughts about the situation.

TL,DR; Sorry, I can’t possibly condense and summarize this. Better skip to another thread!

Tokyo

TL,DR;

A is a lovely guy. Gentle, smart, incredibly good looking, and dynamite in bed. But he is a cosseted, sulky little boy at heart who seems to have trouble with committing to a plan for an afternoon, let alone a relationship.

I have started thinking about B. All. The. Time. I can’t wait to see him again, I can’t wait to get to know him better. I’ve started wondering what it’d be like if I were with him instead of with A, if he’d make me feel secure, cared about, adored. I'm starting to get the feeling that B is 10 times the man A will ever be.



I think that if A wasn't a 9 or 10 out of 10 this wouldn't even be an issue - you'd go with B in a heartbeat. You've tried getting close to A and once you've gotten past the good looks and great sex, you've found him to be a a guy that could never possibly commit to you, and rather, he's dropped not-so-subtle hints at wanting other women when you've broached the topic of an exclusive relationship.

It all comes down to what you want long term, really. Do you want to be with the eye candy that everyone will be envious of you for being with, but you feel that you could never commit to you, or do you want to be with the guy who you connect with, and who you know cares for you?

Defiler Of The Coffin

A doesn't want to commit. That's all you need to know really

Sleepless and Manic

changesandchoices wrote: »

I am starting to get a horrible feeling, the feeling that B is 10 times the man A will ever be.

Horrible feeling? It sounds pretty positive doesnt it?

Or is it horrible because you've met mr.right and he isnt a 10?

Looks arent everything.

Gongoozler

Well it seems to me that you may not be too interested personality wise in A, more physical. And with B its all about a good personality, without the looks.

Can you really say anything about A not wanting to commit when you're already thinking about having a relationship with someone else?

You should break up with A, you're not interested enough in him. I would maybe suggest seeing where things go with B but at the same time if one of the first things you think about him is he's only a 5 or 6, that's pretty ****, and I feel from my own experience that a relationship based solely on personality doesn't work.

Heat_Wave

You say A has committment issues yet you call him your boyfriend.

I found this odd. If he's your boyfriend then he has committed to you?

Also, if A is your boyfriend then why are you cheating on him with B?

ViveLaVie

I think you need to take a step back and stop criticising A for his lack of commitment. He is actually in a relationship with you so surely he has committed? How does changing plans indicate he isn't? It seems like you're the one who isn't committed as you're basically cheating in your head. A tad hypocritical?

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies so far.

I don't think I'm being hypocritical. If I were in a relationship with a commitment-minded man, I would be ready to commit wholly. But I'm not in such a relationship. The fear of commitment is a two way street. Of course that the kind of things A has said to me during a freakout, will make me feel insecure about the relationship and where it's heading and whether I'm ultimately just going to get hurt if I stay with him. I feel that if that hadn't happened, along with all the other little cues that I have been getting from him that feed into it, most probably I would be perfectly satisfied with my boyfriend and my relationship, and wouldn't feel the impetus to look at B the way I have started considering him.

To clarify about A, I think that the situation is that he likes me a whole lot, he likes me so much, in fact, that he has compromised his lifestyle of usual eternal singledom, in order to be able to be with me; because with me it was to be either a relationship or nothing. Perhaps I should have foreseen that that situation would bring its own problems. But the thing is, I do sort of understand where he is coming from, for the kind of person he is. So I think that I have decided to wait and see where things go with him, if he starts to be a bit more trusting of me, a bit more settled in the relationship, with time. These are still the early days, and I know that in his head, he is making compromises to me all the time.

Meeting B has been like a call to examine what I am doing, do I think if it's worth it, I guess. There is a stark contrast between the two men, at least in my head.

I don't know B that well. But I want to get to know him.

Calmsurrender

Move on from both and look for Guy C who will tick all the boxes (or as many as is humanly possible)

Merkin

Even though you don't think B is good looking I'm unclear as to whether you actually fancy him or not?

A is not going to commit.

LegacyUser

Merkin wrote: »

Even though you don't think B is good looking I'm unclear as to whether you actually fancy him or not?

I do. It is an attraction that happened on a deeper and less primal level than what usually happens, because I am not especially attracted to the way he looks; I am attracted to what he's like.

But I am not a cheat; I am not going to cheat on my boyfriend. Aside from cheating being hurtful and ugly, and aside from A not having done anything to deserve being cheated on, I believe, and indeed, hope, that B would have no part in it and would think less of me for considering it ("it" being having my cake and eating it, which is what cheating is).

The reason I started the thread is to try and clear my mind, get some outside opinions, and see what it is I actually want, and what I should do with this situation. Like I said, I am leaning toward letting things lie for a while now, and while internally I can acknowledge my attraction to B, putting the issue in black and white like this has made me realise that I am well able to put it to one side and not get too obsessed about it. I'm not one for making rash, impulsive decisions, especially in the matters of romance.

A's apparent commitmentphobia is my main problem here, I think. But if I were as sure as you are that that's beyond hope, this would be easy.

rcarroll

You mentioned that being faithful is making compromises in A's head....I'd feel terrible knowing that my partner sees it as such a huge compromise and difficulty being only with me...your prtner should feel lucky to have the chance to be your partner- not moan about how its cramping his style. If it were me I'd be wondering if A is not a repeat if the past and B is what you really want after working so hard on yourself the last few years.....maybe give B a chance- he seems to be what you wnt and would be better for you

rcarroll

You mentioned that being faithful is making compromises in A's head....I'd feel terrible knowing that my partner sees it as such a huge compromise and difficulty being only with me...your prtner should feel lucky to have the chance to be your partner- not moan about how its cramping his style. If it were me I'd be wondering if A is not a repeat if the past and B is what you really want after working so hard on yourself the last few years.....maybe give B a chance- he seems to be what you wnt and would be better for you

beks101

changesandchoices wrote: »

If I were in a relationship with a commitment-minded man, I would be ready to commit wholly.

Would you, though?

The main thing that stood out for me about your post was your somewhat cold, clinical, analytical account of both men as if you were describing two properties or something; not two potential love prospects over whom your feelings were torn.

You hang A out to dry on a bunch or perceived faults without the self awareness to see that you are singing from the same hymn sheet - you're admittedly long-term single too without any 'consequential' relationships to speak of for the past few years; you too are demonstrating an unwillingness to 'relinquish control' or to chance emotional investment by your very thorough consideration of another man while you are already supposedly IN a relationship.

You're pitching the scenario to A as "you're either IN or OUT" and then bemoaning his "mini freak outs" over his independence, without considering the fact that YOU are not fully in - and that's the easiest thing in the world to pick up on when you're attempting a relationship with another human being. Perhaps that is what is fuelling the freak outs and the tentative, reluctant steps he seems to be taking; the fact that he's conscious on some level that you're still hmm-ing and haw-ing, you're still evaluating, you're still playing him off your other options, instead of throwing yourself in and seeing where the chips may fall as we are wont to do in affairs of the heart.

As far as B is concerned, I'm not sure how you've come to perceive the "outrageous compliments" as "rare" or "socially brave" - he is simply trying to seduce you as men have done since the dawn of time - and no less, when you are already in a relationship.

As you said yourself, you don't know him that well but you seem to have built up an idea of him in your head based on 1.what you perceive to be lacking from your current relationship and 2. the fact that he's not quite as goodlooking. Almost as if his "puny, weedy, insignificant" self increases his capacity for authenticity or maturity or commitment.

(I cringed when I read that description by the way and I can't for the life of me imagine myself describing a man to whom I had very real feelings in such a cold, superficial way)

To be frank, all of this to me speaks of a complete commitment-phobia on your part - you seem to have written off A as "just another playboy" without any self examination whatsoever and you seem to have formed a habit of "weighing up your options" that prevents ANY emotional investment, perhaps as a by-product of being long-term single by choice.

Reading your post didn't inspire any confidence in me that you'd sail off into the sunset with B if you gave him a chance, as even at this stage you're already keenly focused on his faults (the lack of physical attraction) and his appeal seems to be based on your projection of what you feel A is lacking, rather than any genuine interest in the guy.

Dixie Chick

Hmm, I think you are afraid to put your eggs Into A's basket and have a slightly shoddy but nice back up plan in place. How long has this being going on with A, and also I am guessing that you are not early 20s etc? If this kind of scenario has been going on ling term with A, then you need to definitely reassess or put all your cards on the table in front of him, ask him does he want in, if not, move on.

irishguy1983

changesandchoices wrote: »

Hello,

Going anonymous. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on my situation.

I had been single and, um, near-celibate, for a very looooong time - years. This was mainly to give myself time to heal from all the different fcuk-ups of relationships I used to get in to, but also, to be fair, because over the years I became very picky romantically, and it just so happens that a lot of guys who would have floated my boat in recent years, didn’t feel the same about me!

Recently, however, all that changed when I met a man, we’ll call him A. A is a very good-looking, popular, intelligent man my age, he is also definitely a bit of a party-boy and a man-child, but I will get to that later. Soon after we met (a couple of months ago), I realised there was a spark there between us, as he started pursuing me very intently, which felt nice and ego-boosting… So, in short, we’ve had some good times, and we have been “official” for a little while now.

I’ll start with what’s right first: sex with A is fantastic. This isn’t years of pent up celibacy talking either, believe me - I know what good, bad or indifferent sex is, and this feels amazing. Easily some of the best of my life. He is very giving and generous in that department, and at the same time displaying enough competence and authority so that I can honestly say, the moment I hit the sheets, I have no care in this world any more, it’s all about pleasure and enjoyment. We just click like nobody’s business, and the emotional side of sex is slowly coming into its own as well. As the trust builds, it is becoming ever more intense and satisfying.

What I also like about A is how very compliant and pleasant he is socially, which partly accounts for him being as popular as he is. He is generous with people, and interested in people. We go out a lot, and I haven’t partied this much in a very long while!

Another thing I like, A has the capacity to care. With my past baggage, this is a biggie. He cares about his family and his friends deeply, especially about some of the more vulnerable people.

Another nice thing, we pretty much have the same political views and general values. Not to be underestimated.

A is one of the most handsome guys I’ve ever been with. I’m going to be as crude here as a lot of men can be, and actually rate his looks: he is a 9 or a 10 for me! Tall, long limbs, broad shoulders, regular and manly features, great eyes.

OK, so… where’s the problem? I hear you ask... Well, the problem is that I am afraid that after all my years of singledom, in which I have kept myself fussy and picky about men I get involved with, I have now undone all that work by reverting straight back to my old type, the type of man who I could never be happy with. I’m afraid that there are some strong indications that A is a Commitment-phobe.

He practically doesn’t have a romantic past, and what he does have is very checkered and inconsequential; no long-term relationships beyond months in lasting, and more long spells of singledom than anyone I know (except myself I guess!).

Underneath all that sociable, friendly, party-boy exterior, is someone extremely sensitive, touchy, moody. You can only see that if you get close enough. It has been very easy for me so far to say the wrong thing (like a minor criticism or a comment) or do something that doesn’t suit him, and then he typically goes into a bit of a sulk where I won’t have a clue what’s happening or why, and it will be up to me to try and draw him out as best I can, and talk it out. To be fair, that has worked, more or less, but still. The sulk also happens independently of any of my “transgressions”, a variety of stuff can set it off on any given day.

There are control issues there, probably related to the above, but where I feel them even more intensely is around our arrangements for meetings. Typical texts to arrange to meet will go something like this (I hasten to add, it’s not only me initiating the texting, but the below is more illustrative of my purpose than the other way around):

ME: Hey, how are you!? Would you like to meet at a o’clock and do some b today?
A: Hey! Eh no, actually, I am tired/feel unwell/have something else on at that time, would it be ok if we meet at x o’clock and do y instead?

Bear in mind that the above isn’t just once, it is pretty much every single time that I show any initiative around organising us meeting. So what typically happens then, is I go his way, because I want to see him and be with him, but it is starting to bother me that it seemingly always has to be on his terms. I think that this is about control and the fear of relinquishing control, i.e. ultimately Commitmentphobia.

And finally, the icing on the cake: we have already had two mini freakouts happen, related to getting into and staying in a relationship. He kinda starts emphasising how independent he is and has always been, not used to being in a relationship, and how difficult it is that the option of being with other women has now been removed. To which I reply as sympathetically as I can, but leaving him in no doubt that being in an exclusive relationship is the one thing I am not about to compromise on, so if he wants another kind of relationship (e.g. an open one), he should look for someone else to have it with, and we can’t be together. After such talks, where nothing essentially gets resolved (because it can’t be without us breaking up), curiously things carry on with all normality, exactly where they have left off. I’m a bit puzzled about all that, and feel like I need some wise people’s input here.

There is something else happening, though. I have recently met another man, call him B. B is also my age. He seems to be a nice man, but not very good looking. He would be a 5 or a 6 compared to A’s 9 or 10. Indeed, put him next to A and he’d seem puny, weedy, insignificant. You get the picture.

I have talked to B a bit, and I have very recently copped on to something a bit scary happening; the more I see B, the more I want to see him. There is a connection there. Not chemistry; connection. Even without any words exchanged, I can read him, easily. B likes me a lot. Some of the past few times I have seen him, he has given me a couple of outrageous, completely out-of-left-field compliments, delivered pretty fearlessly and matter-of-factly. The kind of compliment not every man gives, and I like to think, not every woman gets. And very recently he has done something else again, something that I consider to be so brave and genuine (and which was, again, very complimentary to me) that, internally, my jaw hit the floor. (I can’t write what it is, I’m trying not to be identified.) Suffice to say, that, in relation to A, my boyfriend, there is nothing sneaky or underhanded in B’s interest in me – he is being very open about it, which is, I believe, very rare, and yes, definitely socially brave. This man seems to have a core of such authenticity to him, the kind that I have thought extinct in men nowadays, long ago.

The thing that is bothering me now, even more than figuring out how to tackle and what to do about A’s very possible and rather probable Commitmentphobia, is the fact that I have started thinking about B. All. The. Time. I can’t wait to see him again, I can’t wait to get to know him better. I’ve started wondering what it’d be like if I were with him instead of with A, if he’d make me feel secure, cared about, adored. Instead of what I’m learning to accept as the reality of the majority of time in my current relationship, i.e. feeling like things are up in the air, non-committal, difficult to pin down or understand. The feeling of constantly being on the back-foot and having a lot of the good stuff that make a relationship, rationed out to me in small doses.

A is a lovely guy. Gentle, smart, incredibly good looking, and dynamite in bed. But he is a cosseted, sulky little boy at heart who seems to have trouble with committing to a plan for an afternoon, let alone a relationship. Can I live with that?

I am starting to get a horrible feeling, the feeling that B is 10 times the man A will ever be.

Well done on reading all this, I would really appreciate any helpful thoughts about the situation.

TL,DR; Sorry, I can’t possibly condense and summarize this. Better skip to another thread!

You sound awful yourself. I'd say A & B are better off without you considering the way you have described them.

Katgurl

I love the sound of this B guy! I would be drawn to the sort of qualities you've described there too OP. I think you're going to have to see where this goes or you'll always wonder, the attraction seems to be on a much deeper level.

As for A - well he's not the devil or anything, he certainly sounds like a fun guy to date even if he's a bit spoilt. But he's not a good long term option - your draw to him is largely superficial and he is already whining about sacrifices he is making to be in a relationship. Cut him loose, he's too much work.

LegacyUser

beks101 wrote: »

Would you, though?

The main thing that stood out for me about your post was your somewhat cold, clinical, analytical account of both men as if you were describing two properties or something; not two potential love prospects over whom your feelings were torn.

You hang A out to dry on a bunch or perceived faults without the self awareness to see that you are singing from the same hymn sheet - you're admittedly long-term single too without any 'consequential' relationships to speak of for the past few years; you too are demonstrating an unwillingness to 'relinquish control' or to chance emotional investment by your very thorough consideration of another man while you are already supposedly IN a relationship.

You're pitching the scenario to A as "you're either IN or OUT" and then bemoaning his "mini freak outs" over his independence, without considering the fact that YOU are not fully in - and that's the easiest thing in the world to pick up on when you're attempting a relationship with another human being. Perhaps that is what is fuelling the freak outs and the tentative, reluctant steps he seems to be taking; the fact that he's conscious on some level that you're still hmm-ing and haw-ing, you're still evaluating, you're still playing him off your other options, instead of throwing yourself in and seeing where the chips may fall as we are wont to do in affairs of the heart.

As far as B is concerned, I'm not sure how you've come to perceive the "outrageous compliments" as "rare" or "socially brave" - he is simply trying to seduce you as men have done since the dawn of time - and no less, when you are already in a relationship.

As you said yourself, you don't know him that well but you seem to have built up an idea of him in your head based on 1.what you perceive to be lacking from your current relationship and 2. the fact that he's not quite as goodlooking. Almost as if his "puny, weedy, insignificant" self increases his capacity for authenticity or maturity or commitment.

(I cringed when I read that description by the way and I can't for the life of me imagine myself describing a man to whom I had very real feelings in such a cold, superficial way)

To be frank, all of this to me speaks of a complete commitment-phobia on your part - you seem to have written off A as "just another playboy" without any self examination whatsoever and you seem to have formed a habit of "weighing up your options" that prevents ANY emotional investment, perhaps as a by-product of being long-term single by choice.

Reading your post didn't inspire any confidence in me that you'd sail off into the sunset with B if you gave him a chance, as even at this stage you're already keenly focused on his faults (the lack of physical attraction) and his appeal seems to be based on your projection of what you feel A is lacking, rather than any genuine interest in the guy.

Thank you for the input, everyone.

I feel your post is very harsh on me, beks, but it is food for thought, for sure.

If I am being commitmentphobic in any way, it is from the place of trying to protect myself from being hurt or left heart-broken. While I am afraid of the possible fact being, that A's fear of commitment is from the place of wanting to be free and unencumbered with an attachment, wanting to be with other women beside solely myself. Can you not appreciate the difference?

I really think you have the wrong end of the stick when you say it is actually my behaviour that brought on his commitmentphobia. It's not a great thing to realise I am coming across as a cold-hearted btich on this thread; I can only assure you that I do want to love and be loved in kind, and there is no doubt in my mind that I have a lot to offer to a man who would treat me the same. I entered this relationship in good faith, but soon I realised that all evidence suggested that I am more into it than he is. There have been so many times now that I have tried to see him, talked about doing something together, only for it to be brushed off as being inconvenient at that particular point (every time) - it's all on his terms most of the time. One of the times I have tried to talk about this imbalance, and in an effort at clarification I guess, he came out with the bit about being so independent and missing the option of being with others. Now, if you were talking with a guy you were into, and felt great chemistry, and had amazing sex with, how would him saying that make you feel? Would you still feel like throwing yourself in and seeing where the chips may fall? Well, I don't feel like it. Call me cold so.

After that, I have decided to carry on instead of breaking up, because I figured (and still do) that what we do have at the moment is still worth a shot to see if with time he would relax into the relationship, if he'd be able to see himself spending more time with me and getting more involved with me overall. Not just for going out and all the fun times.

But of course, the disappointment with this situation, the insecurity that it engendered in me, reared its head in the form of me distancing myself emotionally somewhat, yes. Which, maybe regrettably, left room for an interest in someone else, if someone else presented themselves in the course of all this second-guessing and worry about what will happen with A next.

You're wrong about B "seducing" me. That's not how things played out, it's not what he's doing. I know what trying to get into my pants looks like, and this isn't it. If it were, there would be no attraction there for me whatsoever.

But you do have a point about me not knowing him and almost certainly building him up too much in my head. This thread on the whole has made me realise that.

This : '2. the fact that he's not quite as goodlooking. Almost as if his "puny, weedy, insignificant" self increases his capacity for authenticity or maturity or commitment.' is kind of offensive, beks. Again, that's not me or anything about what I can relate to feeling. But yet I see how you may have got that impression, because the "puny" and the rest of it is really kind of disrespectful to write about a person, about anyone. I think I was trying to illustrate my point a bit too forcefully.

I am busy at the moment, I will come back to address some of the rest in a bit.

irishguy1983

beks101 wrote: »

Would you, though?

The main thing that stood out for me about your post was your somewhat cold, clinical, analytical account of both men as if you were describing two properties or something; not two potential love prospects over whom your feelings were torn.

You hang A out to dry on a bunch or perceived faults without the self awareness to see that you are singing from the same hymn sheet - you're admittedly long-term single too without any 'consequential' relationships to speak of for the past few years; you too are demonstrating an unwillingness to 'relinquish control' or to chance emotional investment by your very thorough consideration of another man while you are already supposedly IN a relationship.

You're pitching the scenario to A as "you're either IN or OUT" and then bemoaning his "mini freak outs" over his independence, without considering the fact that YOU are not fully in - and that's the easiest thing in the world to pick up on when you're attempting a relationship with another human being. Perhaps that is what is fuelling the freak outs and the tentative, reluctant steps he seems to be taking; the fact that he's conscious on some level that you're still hmm-ing and haw-ing, you're still evaluating, you're still playing him off your other options, instead of throwing yourself in and seeing where the chips may fall as we are wont to do in affairs of the heart.

As far as B is concerned, I'm not sure how you've come to perceive the "outrageous compliments" as "rare" or "socially brave" - he is simply trying to seduce you as men have done since the dawn of time - and no less, when you are already in a relationship.

As you said yourself, you don't know him that well but you seem to have built up an idea of him in your head based on 1.what you perceive to be lacking from your current relationship and 2. the fact that he's not quite as goodlooking. Almost as if his "puny, weedy, insignificant" self increases his capacity for authenticity or maturity or commitment.

(I cringed when I read that description by the way and I can't for the life of me imagine myself describing a man to whom I had very real feelings in such a cold, superficial way)

To be frank, all of this to me speaks of a complete commitment-phobia on your part - you seem to have written off A as "just another playboy" without any self examination whatsoever and you seem to have formed a habit of "weighing up your options" that prevents ANY emotional investment, perhaps as a by-product of being long-term single by choice.

Reading your post didn't inspire any confidence in me that you'd sail off into the sunset with B if you gave him a chance, as even at this stage you're already keenly focused on his faults (the lack of physical attraction) and his appeal seems to be based on your projection of what you feel A is lacking, rather than any genuine interest in the guy.

Well said - jesus it took me back a bit the way she was writing.

dianec401

I think some posters are being a little hard on you. You are analytical and cautious and are just trying to be honest about the relative merits of these two guys.

A sounds like great fun but not a good bet for the long term. You seem out of your comfort zone with A, and whilst he's great to be with, you don't sound comfortable and secure and loved with him.

B is giving you some badly needed reassurance and he seems to be someone who is growing on you which in my mind bodes well for a great relationship. Obviously you do need some fireworks as well but I can see that developing. B has qualities which aren't as 'flashy' or obvious as A's but which certainly sound much more appealing.

Just make sure that your feelings for B aren't fuelled by your insecurities with A. But I know which guy I'd rather be with. B sounds like a catch.

Neyite

irishguy1983 wrote: »

You sound awful yourself. I'd say A & B are better off without you considering the way you have described them.

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Well said - jesus it took me back a bit the way she was writing.

If you cannot offer advice to the OP, and post in a civil, mature helpful and constructive way, then dont post. Read the charter before posting again.

Goat the dote

Pick B. I picked a B and found out afterwards that A was actually cheating most of the time.
I'm now Mrs B and A is now divorcing someone else

Obliq

changesandchoices wrote: »

The reason I started the thread is to try and clear my mind, get some outside opinions, and see what it is I actually want, and what I should do with this situation. Like I said, I am leaning toward letting things lie for a while now, and while internally I can acknowledge my attraction to B, putting the issue in black and white like this has made me realise that I am well able to put it to one side and not get too obsessed about it. I'm not one for making rash, impulsive decisions, especially in the matters of romance.

A's apparent commitmentphobia is my main problem here, I think. But if I were as sure as you are that that's beyond hope, this would be easy.

In contrast to some other posters, I think you sound lovely btw. Just to address the commitment phobia a little though, it sounds like A has more issues than backing out of relationships due to fear of commitment. There's a difference between a fear of commitment and always thinking the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, I think.

I mean, a standard fear of commitment (and one that can be addressed given time and trust) is like your own, when past experiences and major f*ck ups colour your ability to feel secure and even lead to backing out of relationships that could work out. This fella A sounds more like he is covering his arse over potentially letting you down in future by frequently dropping hints that he might be missing out on others and by apparently not letting you have any impact on his "independence" through never agreeing to a plan you suggest. The sulkiness also suggests that he's not self-aware or insightful enough to acknowledge/recognise that he's setting you both up for a fall - it would be hard to address this kind of lack of commitment without breaking all those eggshells you're walking on.

My own fella took some getting, as he'd managed to get to 50 without ever being in a relationship for longer than 18 months and thought he was really rubbish at them. 3 years on, and talking about where we'll travel in our 80's now, but even at the beginning there was never a feeling that he wasn't 100% examining his own reasoning and 100% making an attempt at a commitment with just me (no grass is greener fantasising about others - only about being single again really...).

I'm thinking A could easily drift along with where you're both at indefinitely, but will jump ship if pressured. Whatever about B coming into your life (and I can see that you're getting relationship vibes from him that are clearly missing with A), it'll be totally up to you to decide if A is man enough for you the way he is now. I doubt he'll suddenly grow all insightful and self aware overnight.

beks101

I certainly don't think you're a cold-hearted b1tch. I should probably have prefaced my post by saying that my intention was simply to play devil's advocate a little and encourage you to think about things from another perspective. Not to leave the most obvious part - YOU - out of the equation.

Your descriptions of both men read as a little one-dimensional to me - the playboy and the nerdy/thoughtful guy - and I guess I wanted to emphasize that 1. people are never that simple; and 2. it takes two to tango - your own actions and reactions and projections play a key role in how these guys are responding to you and ultimately, how happy you end up.

I was coming from the perspective of someone who spent a long time single too in the past and I could recognize a lot of your thought patterns. I've taken 'sabbaticals' from men too because of disappointments and frustrations and heartaches in my own dating life and I know too well how that can cause a sort of counter-productive tendency to self-protect, over-analyze and dismiss men all too quickly by trying to break them down into their pros and cons - and you never really SEE someone by doing that. You never really emotionally engage.

Maybe Mr A is equally self-protective and scared of getting hurt? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that this bravado, this 'independence', this 'other women' talk is rooted in the same fears that you have about investing in someone? Have you had a conversation about that? Have you told him how scary it is to you, after being single and taking yourself out of the equation for so long, to open yourself up to falling for someone when you're not quite sure of what you'll be getting in return?

I met many men that would fit A's description during my single days so I completely understand your reservations - but I think what you're missing - and what I missed all too often - was that evaluating him or ANY guy in a mathematical way, breaking him down and picking him apart is just another way of refusing to 'relinquish control' as you say, and NOT letting yourself go the sufficient amount in order to find what you're looking for.

changesandchoices wrote: »

One of the times I have tried to talk about this imbalance, and in an effort at clarification I guess, he came out with the bit about being so independent and missing the option of being with others. Now, if you were talking with a guy you were into, and felt great chemistry, and had amazing sex with, how would him saying that make you feel?

Hurt and disappointed and ready to retreat. I can see how you reacted the same way.

But that would be the point at which I would need to sit down, face to face, ask some real questions and look for some real answers. Express my own fears and reservations and expectations after spending so long being single, and work off my own instinct based on the answers I got.

NOT to bury my head in the sand and open myself up to another guy without even giving the first one an honest-to-god shot.

You speak about the 'authenticity' of B - what about your own authenticity? What about your own emotional honesty? Your transparency in looking for the things you need in a partner? These are the things you need to consider if you are looking for the same in another person - because you can only expect to get in return what you're willing to give.

LegacyUser

beks101 wrote: »

(I cringed when I read that description by the way and I can't for the life of me imagine myself describing a man to whom I had very real feelings in such a cold, superficial way)

To be frank, all of this to me speaks of a complete commitment-phobia on your part - you seem to have written off A as "just another playboy" without any self examination whatsoever and you seem to have formed a habit of "weighing up your options" that prevents ANY emotional investment, perhaps as a by-product of being long-term single by choice.

Reading your post didn't inspire any confidence in me that you'd sail off into the sunset with B if you gave him a chance, as even at this stage you're already keenly focused on his faults (the lack of physical attraction) and his appeal seems to be based on your projection of what you feel A is lacking, rather than any genuine interest in the guy.

Just a further few things on beks's post: I don't have any feelings as such for B. I don't know him well enough to have feelings for him.

I do have some feelings for A. Believe it or not, this is one of the reasons why I would find it very difficult to break up with him, even at this early stage. There are other reasons, too, and I'll get to them later.

The thing about me being in the habit of weighing up my choices is spot on, and yes, no doubt a result of being in the habit of doing that in my long-term singledom. That's a very good insight.

I have no intention of sailing off into the sunset with B, and I know I don't stand much of a chance of doing the same with A. Methinks there'll be no sailing done here!

This thread has brought me back to reality, big time. Before I posted, I was thinking of B a lot, and pretty much fantasizing, but writing it all down and reading the replies has really driven it home how much of a fantasy and a projection it is. It was like trying to save myself from the hurt that might be coming in this relationship, by letting myself consider another "option". Except that option is not realistic and not feasible.

In my weird way, I actually feel committed to A. I am committed insofar as I have feelings for him, and feel bound to him. Somehow, breaking up just feels sort of wrong, inconceivable at this point, and it wasn't until I'd read all the posts, going "pick B!", that I realised this. I couldn't realistically do something like that. I couldn't just ditch A and pick B up. It would feel dirty, like cheating, or some other kind of betrayal. If A did that to me, I'd be crushed.

But I do know where you are all coming from (thank you especially to rcarroll, Katgurl and Obliq for the nice posts and support). B sounds like a lovely man, and he indeed seems like a lovely man, so I am looking forward to getting to know him better in a social setting, but without the rose-tinted glasses on, and without any hidden agendas.

Ultimately, I want more time with A, like I said. Obliq, I get the point about the difference between a fear and a grass is greener syndrome; the thread has been unsettling altogether because so many seem to feel not much good can come of what I have with A. Yet, it is of course, me, first and foremost, who feels like that a lot of the time, and who fears that it's true.

Thank you again everyone for the replies! They've helped.

Obliq

changesandchoices wrote: »

Ultimately, I want more time with A, like I said. Obliq, I get the point about the difference between a fear and a grass is greener syndrome; the thread has been unsettling altogether because so many seem to feel not much good can come of what I have with A. Yet, it is of course, me, first and foremost, who feels like that a lot of the time, and who fears that it's true.

Thank you again everyone for the replies! They've helped.

Sorry for playing into your fears then! I'm glad to hear you want more time with A and want to give him a chance though. I'm quoting myself here below to expand on it:

Obliq wrote: »

I'm thinking A could easily drift along with where you're both at indefinitely, but will jump ship if pressured. Whatever about B coming into your life (and I can see that you're getting relationship vibes from him that are clearly missing with A), it'll be totally up to you to decide if A is man enough for you the way he is now. I doubt he'll suddenly grow all insightful and self aware overnight.

With my man, he did jump ship. Twice in fact, because he really couldn't get his head around the potential he had both for possible hurt to himself, and in possibly hurting me. He had never lied to me and tried to promise something he didn't feel he could commit to.

I was rational about it, and (in spite of advise from friends) went to challenge him on it. Also, he knew he was having commitment fears himself. I took the chance (although seriously upset) to sit him down and actually ask what he wanted. Could he look at himself and say he could already see himself desperately wanting to be single again? Could he name any element to love that he felt was missing between us (he couldn't, when I named companionship, intimacy, trust and friendship).

I accused him (when he'd backed off for the second time) of taking my risks for me. It was for me to decide if I was up to the challenge of accepting that commitment was an issue, and taking the risk on getting hurt. So he accepted that, officially ruled "potential for hurting me" off the table and gave it a shot at "resigning himself :pac:" (his words! Bloody honest he is, to a fault!) to seeing what happened.

So, all that about my situation just to illustrate that if you have your eyes open and you give him a chance, it comes down to how much you can take of the insecurity of being with a commitment phobe in the end. Tell him you're taking that risk because you think what you have is worth it, and I hope A is more insightful than I gave him credit for earlier. Stay rational, and good luck!

Ps. And totally beks post. I've been that bunny - confront those fears missus!

tara73

rcarroll wrote: »

You mentioned that being faithful is making compromises in A's head....I'd feel terrible knowing that my partner sees it as such a huge compromise and difficulty being only with me...your prtner should feel lucky to have the chance to be your partner- not moan about how its cramping his style. If it were me I'd be wondering if A is not a repeat if the past and B is what you really want after working so hard on yourself the last few years.....maybe give B a chance- he seems to be what you wnt and would be better for you

I would back this up. From your description, it doesn't seems to be working out with A in the long run.
I don't like your example of how he's never happy with your meet up suggestions. I mean, it could always be that it doesn't suit for one party, but if it's always like that...might sound like a minor thing but it's not. exactly this 'minor things' show control habits and it plays together with his commitment phobia. He always have to prove you and himslef that he's the one in control. terrible. and you're not together a long time so there will be more to come...

I also made the experience some time ago about falling in love with somebody I wasn't in the slightest physically attracted to.More the opposite. But I liked him so much for his character, style, humour etc. that his physical appearance didn't matter anymore. So I can absolutely put myelf in your position with B.

It's hard to say what to do, only you can decide, but from what you describe I would let A go and turn myself to B.
Or why not have a proper last discussion with A, I also don't see anything wrong in giving him an ultimatum by now to tell you if he definately sees a future with you or not. If he's still undecisive I would call it a day.

good luck

tara73

somehow I missed reading your last post, so sorry, my post is a bit out of date then regarding your last post.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for the most recent posts, especially beks and Obliq, again. Right on the button. You've made me feel supported here.

Oh and someone asked earlier if I am in my twenties. Well... everyone in this story is so far past their twenties, it's not even funny!

Thanks all.

ILikeBananas

How long have you been dating A OP?

How long into that period did you first meet B?