Over and underated things and people?

steddyeddy

For anyone that knows me it will be no surprise that they're mostly science but it applies to anyone.

Overrated: Francis Crick who discovered the DNA double helix structure. Simply put he obtained the first picture of the double helix from a scientist called Rosalind Franklin's lab without her knowledge or consent and later published a paper on the double helix. Rosalind Franklin never got the credit at the time and Crick won the Nobel prize at a time when female scientists were discriminated against. Crick is also a tremendous racist and supporter of eugenics.

Underrated: Chuck Feeney business man and philanthropist who donated millions (billions maybe?) to the Irish education system and is rarely talked about or seeks credit. Compare that with Denis O Brien who gives money to UCD and has the new science building named after him.

Arthur Beesley

Mary Robinson

The Diabolical Monocle

"supporter of eugenics"


So what.

Arthur Beesley

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

"supporter of eugenics"


So what.

Exactly. Hitler was a vegetarian.

steddyeddy

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

"supporter of eugenics"


So what.

So he's a geneticist and he subscribes to the idea that there is a phenotypic idea based on genomic characteristics. Apart from the moral issues it's scientific BS and it makes me doubt he knew what he was talking about at all.

steddyeddy

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Mary Robinson

Why?

Arthur Beesley

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why?

Why what?

steddyeddy

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Why what?

I start a thread asking for under and overrated things and you type"Mary Robinson". It's not coherent.

For Forks Sake

steddyeddy wrote: »

I start a thread asking for under and overrated things and you type"Mary Robinson". It's not coherent.

Her range of fruit drinks are overrated

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

So he's a geneticist and he subscribes to the idea that there is a phenotypic idea based on genomic characteristics. Apart from the moral issues it's scientific BS and it makes me doubt he knew what he was talking about at all.

Why is it BS? I thought the genome had a substantial effect on the phenotype? I'd only have a first year undergrad level of biological knowledge, so I'm assuming it's a bit more complicated than genome + environment + interactions = phenotype model that's used to explain it, but aside from the moral issues* I've never really been able to understand what exactly is wrong with eugenics.

*(since this is AH and I need to be a bit more right wing) and if it meant less scumbags on the streets, I'd happily put the moral issues to one side! :pac:

Arthur Beesley

steddyeddy wrote: »

I start a thread asking for under and overrated things and you type"Mary Robinson". It's not coherent.

I didn't say she was overrated. I meant she was either overrated or underrated, but wasn't sure which.

The Diabolical Monocle

steddyeddy wrote: »

So he's a geneticist and he subscribes to the idea that there is a phenotypic idea based on genomic characteristics. Apart from the moral issues it's scientific BS and it makes me doubt he knew what he was talking about at all.

Or he, along with a great many people, has a view that can be loosely tied to racism and the nazi's .... ergo guilt by association.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-eugenics-ethical

racists.

wazky

Hitler wasn't all that bad given his Jew.

Fudge You

wazky wrote: »

Hitler wasn't all that bad given his Jew.

What? He was a bad. Bad to the bone.
Horrible evil jackass!

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is it BS? I thought the genome had a substantial effect on the phenotype? I'd only have a first year undergrad level of biological knowledge, so I'm assuming it's a bit more complicated than genome + environment + interactions = phenotype model that's used to explain it, but aside from the moral issues* I've never really been able to understand what exactly is wrong with eugenics.

*(since this is AH and I need to be a bit more right wing) and if it meant less scumbags on the streets, I'd happily put the moral issues to one side! :pac:

Describe an ideal phenotype? Edit you're right about how we get to the phenotype.

steddyeddy

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Or he, along with a great many people, has a view that can be loosely tied to racism and the nazi's .... ergo guilt by association.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-eugenics-ethical

racists.

No he believes that there is such a thing as a good or bad phenotype. Eugenic ideas pre-date the Nazis.

Celly Smunt

Fudge You wrote: »

What? He was a bad. Bad to the bone.
Horrible evil jackass!

Ah now he wasnt that bad, sure he was a good road builder like

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steddyeddy wrote: »

For anyone that knows me it will be no surprise that they're mostly science but it applies to anyone.

Overrated: Francis Crick who discovered the DNA double helix structure. Simply put he obtained the first picture of the double helix from a scientist called Rosalind Franklin's lab without her knowledge or consent and later published a paper on the double helix. Rosalind Franklin never got the credit at the time and Crick won the Nobel prize at a time when female scientists were discriminated against. Crick is also a tremendous racist and supporter of eugenics.

Underrated: Chuck Feeney business man and philanthropist who donated millions (billions maybe?) to the Irish education system and is rarely talked about or seeks credit. Compare that with Denis O Brien who gives money to UCD and has the new science building named after him.

You are being selective with the facts. Franklin died in 1958 and the Nobel prize was in 1962. You cannot win the Nobel Prize posthumously. Watson and Crick are on record several times, both acknowledging Franklin's achievements and her claim to a Nobel Prize for that work.



Edit: Oh and you keep referring to Crick in the present tense. He is dead about 10 years. I met him in California back in 1965 and he was a quiet self-effacing man and a gentleman.

whirlpool

Being single is overrated. So is being in a relationship.

steddyeddy

Sam Agreeable Lifeboat wrote: »

You are being selective with the facts. Franklin died in 1958 and the Nobel prize was in 1962. You cannot win the Nobel Prize posthumously. Watson and Crick are on record several times, both acknowledging Franklin's achievements and her claim to a Nobel Prize for that work.

In fairnes Crick took his time giving Rosalind credit. The fact is Rosalind's work probably made Crick's possible.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steddyeddy wrote: »

In fairnes Crick took his time giving Rosalind credit. The fact is Rosalind's work probably made Crick's possible.

He never disputed that!

Pumpkinseeds

Green vegetables are underrated.

Stavros Murphy

Getting busted by Srameen is under-rated. Especially if you are a Scienticistic type. Kinda Nerd-Burn.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Getting busted by Srameen is under-rated. Especially if you are a Scienticistic type. Kinda Nerd-Burn.

I'm not sure what that means but thanks anyway. :)

Joe prim

Sam Agreeable Lifeboat wrote: »

You are being selective with the facts. Franklin died in 1958 and the Nobel prize was in 1962. You cannot win the Nobel Prize posthumously. Watson and Crick are on record several times, both acknowledging Franklin's achievements and her claim to a Nobel Prize for that work.



Edit: Oh and you keep referring to Crick in the present tense. He is dead about 10 years. I met him in California back in 1965 and he was a quiet self-effacing man and a gentleman.

He also gave very good tips for horseracing on Channel 4, although I may actually be mixing him up with someone with similiar DNA.

Larianne

Underated: the power of a good walk for the mind.

The Diabolical Monocle

steddyeddy wrote: »

Eugenic ideas pre-date the Nazis.

No sht Sherlock.

Sam Kade

Marriage is overrated people can't wait to get married but very soon the novelty wears off. Take note all you couples about to get hitched.

Jonny Blaze

Drinking is overrated..

Morgase

steddyeddy wrote: »

For anyone that knows me it will be no surprise that they're mostly science but it applies to anyone.

Overrated: Francis Crick who discovered the DNA double helix structure. Simply put he obtained the first picture of the double helix from a scientist called Rosalind Franklin's lab without her knowledge or consent and later published a paper on the double helix. Rosalind Franklin never got the credit at the time and Crick won the Nobel prize at a time when female scientists were discriminated against. Crick is also a tremendous racist and supporter of eugenics.

Underrated: Chuck Feeney business man and philanthropist who donated millions (billions maybe?) to the Irish education system and is rarely talked about or seeks credit. Compare that with Denis O Brien who gives money to UCD and has the new science building named after him.

You're wrong about Francis Crick. You're confusing him with James Watson, who he collaborated with and shared the Nobel Prize with. Crick was rather a gent, whereas Watson is the one who still spouts "controversial" views (i.e. is a racist and a sleaze).

Greenmachine

steddyeddy wrote: »

For anyone that knows me it will be no surprise that they're mostly science but it applies to anyone.

Overrated: Francis Crick who discovered the DNA double helix structure. Simply put he obtained the first picture of the double helix from a scientist called Rosalind Franklin's lab without her knowledge or consent and later published a paper on the double helix. Rosalind Franklin never got the credit at the time and Crick won the Nobel prize at a time when female scientists were discriminated against. Crick is also a tremendous racist and supporter of eugenics.

Underrated: Chuck Feeney business man and philanthropist who donated millions (billions maybe?) to the Irish education system and is rarely talked about or seeks credit. Compare that with Denis O Brien who gives money to UCD and has the new science building named after him.

The principles of herd immunity via mass vaccination is also eugenics.

Turtwig

I'm just going to mention Irish (North and South) underrated ones.

Jocelyn Bell

John Desmond Bernal. (My previous username incidentally.

William Rowan Hamilton.

That Irish people see Bono and Geldof (to be fair geldof is pretty cool) as some of the greatest Irish people of all time is, uh, no comment.

karaokeman

Overrated - getting drunk/hungover

Underrated - Eliza Doolittle (in terms of looks)

Birneybau

karaokeman wrote: »

Overrated - getting drunk/hungover

Underrated - Eliza Doolittle (in terms of looks)

She is far from good looking.

Nino Brown

Nikola Tesla, one of the smartest dudes to have ever lived, he changed all of our lives immensely, and if you ask most people who he was, they'll probably think he owns a car company.

Zamboni

Most overrated thing in the world - the population and culture of the United States of America

Most underrated - Brussel Sprouts

steddyeddy

Turtwig wrote: »

I'm just going to mention Irish (North and South) underrated ones.

Jocelyn Bell

John Desmond Bernal. (My previous username incidentally.

William Rowan Hamilton.

That Irish people see Bono and Geldof (to be fair geldof is pretty cool) as some of the greatest Irish people of all time is, uh, no comment.

I'm ashamed to say I never knew Bernal was Irish! Thanks

Turtwig

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm ashamed to say I never knew Bernal was Irish! Thanks

The cynic in me thinks that's a lot of his lack of spotlight in Ireland today is down to the fact that he was a socialist. The type Stalin didn't like but a socialist nonetheless and in awe of the Russia (before Stalin).

steddyeddy

Turtwig wrote: »

The cynic in me thinks that's a lot of his lack of spotlight in Ireland today is down to the fact that he was a socialist. The type Stalin didn't like but a socialist nonetheless and in awe of the Russia (before Stalin).

Well that shouldn't be the case. Politics shouldn't inform scientific worth.

Turtwig

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well that shouldn't be the case. Politics shouldn't inform scientific worth.

100% Agree but if you go poll the average Irish person (or Boardsie?) I doubt they'd even know of his name.
At least the LC syllabus lists Stoney, Walton and few others.

steddyeddy

Turtwig wrote: »

100% Agree but if you go poll the average Irish person (or Boardsie?) I doubt they'd even know of his name.
At least the LC syllabus lists Stoney, Walton and few others.

Considering X-ray crsytallography is essential to biochemistry I'm ashamed I barely knew his name. I can't thank you enough.

Turtwig

steddyeddy wrote: »

Considering X-ray crsytallography is essential to biochemistry I'm ashamed I barely knew his name. I can't thank you enough.

You're tempting me to change my username back now and have his profile in my sig.
Turtwig is staying for a little while anyway. Recently re-found love with pokemon.

Sunglasses Ron

Morgan Freeman. Not on his acting ability, more his rating as a cultural icon.

I just can't give major respect to a step granddaughter shagging possibly borderline nonce no matter how cool his voice is.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Overrated: Francis Crick who discovered the DNA double helix structure.

That is one of the things I have learned most while studying science as indepth as I now do. Most of the big names are seriously over rated. We ascribe discoveries to single names - but for the most part we are simply appending names to a long series of discoveries - culminating in a change of public opinion to which we append a single name like Darwin.

But when one sits down and explores any subject - and the example I would recommend would be the invention of the "steam engine" to which we append a single recognisable name - you very quickly find that their discovery was not one single moment of human brilliance - but a single person who made a small step in a long chain of discoveries and ideas - where most of the real due credit is lost.

Credit is almost always over rated in science. Science is a process - incremental and ongoing - which we as a species arbitrary mark by stamping names on it from the people who existed along the chain.

Sir Arthur Daley

Apple products way overrated.

Stained Class

I'm part way thru reading Frank Connollys book on Tom Gilmartin.

I think people like Tom were underated by this country.


It's laughable how Gilmartin was thwarted by officials & people at the heart of the running of this country in his endeavours to create employment here.

It's laughable untill you realise that many of the gangsters & shysters involved in this sorry tale were elected to their positions by guess who?