Journey to becoming "fat burning machine"

rom

History
- Am 31 years of age.
- Ran for the first time in my adult life in the summer of 2010. "Ran" about a mile when really it was probably fast walking by anyone standards, was sore for days. I was 96KG, 5' 9" so that was a BMI of 31* and obese.
- With consistent training since then my times improved and I lost weight. I used things like myfitnesspal and similar to track calories. I never enjoyed this process and felt constantly hungry. My lightest I got was down to 72 Kg about 12 months ago and I was very tired at the time but ran a good time in Ballycotton.
- I have not improved my 10M time by much since. The diet has got poor again. Working away and having a work place full of free junk food doesn't help.
- A goal of mine was to run a sub 3 hour marathon since I started running. This happened last weekend. However when I weighted myself on the Tues post race I was 80.8Kg (26.1 BMI) and 79.8 when I weighted myself this morning.

* I refer to BMI a lot as its a number that can be used for comparison.

The goal
- Get healthy, minimize drinking, refined sugar, carbs.
- Lose weight effectively.
- Become a much better runner.

What I am going to do ?
- Follow a paelio type diet.
- Never eat before my morning run.
- Track my weight, mood (if its not a enjoyable then its not sustainable), daily runs here to keep me honest.

ecoli

Best of luck with the log and congrats on the PB

Just a few comments to make regarding diet.

- BMI is very misleading. The problem is it is designed for use for the general public as a general guide and does not take into account muscle composition etc. For someone regularly involved in sport it is highly inaccurate. Don't believe me, just ask Anita Albrecht

- Low carbs - given your fluctuating history and the access to junk food and the temptation that leads to I would advise against this approach as can cause increase risk of insulin resistance and the problems associated with this. Carbs are not the enemy and certainly not the enemy for endurance based athletes

- Paleo diet - If you are following a strict paleo diet supplement your diet to make sure you are getting enough calcium. This has nothing to do with osteoporosis but rather in regard to your performance levels which will see a severe drop if you have insufficient calcium levels in the body

SamforMayo

Hi Rom, good luck with the log and well done on your sub 3, your weight is not holding you back anyways. Regarding the weight are you sure you need to loose weight or are you just going by numbers? As for diet I wouldn't embark on any particular diet focus on improving your meals gradually, complex carbs, lean protein etc. Maybe reduce junk rather than cut it out. Keep a food diary for a while. If you are hungry on a diet its not sustainable (not for me anyways). Best of luck with your goals.

rom

Thanks guys.

Re BMI. I agree but I was down to 72 Kg from simply eating a bit better and giving up drink for a month.

Low carbs/Paleo - I do agree but its a more of the case of limiting them as much as possible. It is more a case of the log keeping me honest. I don't think I can do quality sessions without carbs but who knows. From an endurance point I am post race so I feel that this change can happen now and my body can adjust.

Even with the few years training I can say I am responsible fit and healthy but my diet is not something that will be good for life long health. I know its a simple case of cutting out the junk but its all or nothing with me. I am not going to get too hung up on it and will weigh myself like once a week.

Re weight not holding me back. I actually think it is. I don't plan to be hungry on the "diet" but simply the goal is to reduce carbs, sugar, salt. I don't mean strict Paleo but more like what along the lines of what would out parents eat rather than what would cavemen eat I will still be eating dairy and some carb but cut out bread and refined carbs as much I can.

rom

Day|Alc free|Weight|Mood|Run|Diet
1|1|79.8|v. Good|4M Easy rec|(B):Eggs,Chorizo,Kale (L):Greek yogurt,grapes (D):Steak, carrots, broccoli, horseradish & creme fraiche (S):cheese & oatcakes |


Yes this is going to be the most boring Training Log ever or will it ?

rom

Day|Alc free|Weight|Mood|Run|Diet
1|1|79.8|v. Good|4M Easy rec|(B):Eggs,Chorizo,Kale (L):Greek yogurt,grapes (D):Steak, carrots, broccoli, horseradish & creme fraiche (S):cheese & oatcakes |
2|2|-|feeling tired, getting a cold from the little one (not a bad time to get one) Usually get run down 7-10 days post a big race|Rest|Good eating, carbs were just small amount of rice in homemade curry and oatcakes |


Gonna ease back into running

2 days rest
3 days rest
4 days rest ...

rom

Day|Alc free|Weight|Mood|Run|Diet
1|1|79.8|v. Good|4M Easy rec|(B):Eggs,Chorizo,Kale (L):Greek yogurt,grapes (D):Steak, carrots, broccoli, horseradish & creme fraiche (S):cheese & oatcakes |
2|2|-|feeling tired, getting a cold from the little one (not a bad time to get one) Usually get run down 7-10 days post a big race|Rest|Good eating, carbs were just small amount of rice in homemade curry and oatcakes |
3|3|77.7|feeling much better today, getting over cold. happy I took the rest day|6M easy|Good eating, tiny amount of stuffing with dinner, legs feeling much better|

rom

Day|Alc free|Weight|Mood|Run|Diet
1|1|79.8|v. Good|4M Easy rec|(B):Eggs,Chorizo,Kale (L):Greek yogurt,grapes (D):Steak, carrots, broccoli, horseradish & creme fraiche (S):cheese & oatcakes |
2|2|-|feeling tired, getting a cold from the little one (not a bad time to get one) Usually get run down 7-10 days post a big race|Rest|Good eating, carbs were just small amount of rice in homemade curry and oatcakes |
3|3|77.7|feeling much better today, getting over cold. happy I took the rest day|6M easy|Good eating, tiny amount of stuffing with dinner, legs feeling much better|
4|4|-|feeling very good today but going to have a rest day tomorrow as feeling a little tired during run today|5M easy|pineapple yogurt, salad chicken, cashews, cheese and oatcakes, steak dinner with broccoli and carrots|

rom

Day|Alc free|Weight|Mood|Run|Diet
1|1|79.8|v. Good|4M Easy rec|(B):Eggs,Chorizo,Kale (L):Greek yogurt,grapes (D):Steak, carrots, broccoli, horseradish & creme fraiche (S):cheese & oatcakes |
2|2|-|feeling tired, getting a cold from the little one (not a bad time to get one) Usually get run down 7-10 days post a big race|Rest|Good eating, carbs were just small amount of rice in homemade curry and oatcakes |
3|3|77.7|feeling much better today, getting over cold. happy I took the rest day|6M easy|Good eating, tiny amount of stuffing with dinner, legs feeling much better|
4|4|-|feeling very good today but going to have a rest day tomorrow as feeling a little tired during run today|5M easy|pineapple yogurt, salad chicken, cashews, cheese and oatcakes, steak dinner with broccoli and carrots|
5|5|77.2|very tired during run |5M easy|Had some junk food in the cinema |

rom

Hard to get to sleep last night after eating junk. Bad food is probably related to my lack of sleep. Not worth it.

rom

Ok so this like lots of other things was a silly idea. Life needs balance and I always go to extremes. So I am going to run DCM. Its going to be serious. I need to chill the F out.

ecoli

rom wrote: »

Ok so this like lots of other things was a silly idea. Life needs balance and I always go to extremes. So I am going to run DCM. Its going to be serious. I need to chill the F out.

I would echo this sentiment. If you are looking to monitor things without getting excessive one trick I have used before is "mileage currency". Make a realistic and fair system of value (i.e 10 miles = takeaway etc)

Not only can this be a way of monitoring without obsessing but it also means that your treats are guilt free as you earn them. So say to yourself right I am not going to have x treat until I have enough mileage (or could even be say 1 S&C session or whatever) to pay for it

something as simple as

3 miles - snack
10 miles - Cinema night
15 miles - Takeaway
20 miles - few quiet beers
30 miles - Lads night out

The one thing to remember is that running is a hobby, its an activity to enjoy and take stress away from your life not the other way around

rom

ecoli wrote: »

I would echo this sentiment. If you are looking to monitor things without getting excessive one trick I have used before is "mileage currency". Make a realistic and fair system of value (i.e 10 miles = takeaway etc)

Not only can this be a way of monitoring without obsessing but it also means that your treats are guilt free as you earn them. So say to yourself right I am not going to have x treat until I have enough mileage (or could even be say 1 S&C session or whatever) to pay for it

something as simple as

3 miles - snack
10 miles - Cinema night
15 miles - Takeaway
20 miles - few quiet beers
30 miles - Lads night out

The one thing to remember is that running is a hobby, its an activity to enjoy and take stress away from your life not the other way around

I agree. I don't give myself credit for hard work I do put in.

"The one thing to remember is that running is a hobby, its an activity to enjoy and take stress away from your life not the other way around" exactly.

I suppose because of my history I still feel like I am that fat guy trying to lose weight though its not an issue anymore.

Due to the stress I put myself under I actually mess up in races which has been the case in all my marathons so much so that I do excellent training at the start and the middle of a program but towards the end I get stressed and start to make bad choices like having beers or going on the piss marathon week.Then I just want it all to be over.

tbh I didn't enjoy running sub 3 in Rotterdam. I couldn't give a damn about it really. The only motivator on the day was not to disappoint my coach for the time he put in.

Thanks for the post.

ecoli

Probably not my place to say but would you consider knocking the marathon on the head for a year or two?

Normally I would tend to advise people to always think long term but I think you would benefit from the unstructured approach and just get an enjoyment from running. Race often to take the pressure off not running well (i.e each race is not the be all and end all) Take in the social element of the sport.

Being serious and enjoying what you do need not be mutually exclusive. As most who know me would say I am obsessive about the sport but I enjoy every minute of it (will have to remind myself of this during my sessions later ).

Find the fun and the structure can come later.

rom

I can say the same about any race tbh so simply dropping marathons is not going to fix it. Going to concentrate on shorter stuff during the summer,more training with the club etc Can think about DCM went the dust settles but for now just run for fun.

ecoli

rom wrote: »

I can say the same about any race tbh so simply dropping marathons is not going to fix it. Going to concentrate on shorter stuff during the summer,more training with the club etc Can think about DCM went the dust settles but for now just run for fun.

It was more a case where you could race every few races without having a "target race" to take some pressure off. I have done the same in the past built a race up in my head and things went belly up, came back 2-3 weeks later with no pressure and ended up having some of the best performances ever.

rom

Looking to run well for a few 5k's coming up. PB is 17:52 from last year. Feel I am much faster now.

So I am going to do a LSR of 16M each Sunday as I don't want to lose marathon fitness.

M - Easy 8M with club
T - ??? maybe hill-repeats, 1min on 1min off etc
W - Easy 6M with strides @ work
T - Easy 6M with strides @ work
F - Session with club, normally longer intervals or pyramid sessions or mile repeats
S - 8M easy with strides
S - LSD 16M/18 easy

I would like to do Tues session on feel so that I am not trying to hit paces but see how it happens over a few weeks.

Anyone with an suggestion. Ideally it would be a session that could be done in 50min with warmup and cooldown on a flat route (it may not be possible) but thats what I go to work with for the time being.

Any suggestions ???

Krusty_Clown

Hi rom, clearly incorporating segments at 5k pace or faster is important. A couple of sessions that I've found beneficial of late are:

3 x (4 x 400m w/30 secs rest) 3:30 between sets
5 x (Alternate 400m @5k / 800 steady)
12 x 200m @3k pace with 200m jog recovery

A couple of miles of warm-up/down and they're all easily do-able in 50 minutes.

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi rom, clearly incorporating segments at 5k pace or faster is important. A couple of sessions that I've found beneficial of late are:

3 x (4 x 400m w/30 secs rest) 3:30 between sets
5 x (Alternate 400m @5k / 800 steady)
12 x 200m @3k pace with 200m jog recovery

A couple of miles of warm-up/down and they're all easily do-able in 50 minutes.

Thanks for those. Gonna do 12 x 1 min on with 1 min recovery on Tues. Have john buckley in a few weeks and it should tell me where I am. I have no idea where my times are having not a run anything close to 5k in like a year. Once I get a notion of where it is from the John buckley race then will defo try these sessions. Maybe I should do some sort of fitness test to see where I am at ?

The good thing about the John Buckley race is 6 weeks later there is another race on the same route so I can target an improvement. Thanks again.

Krusty_Clown

rom wrote: »

Maybe I should do some sort of fitness test to see where I am at ?

Are you near either of the Cork-based Parkruns? If so, head out and give one a lash. Then try and take a minute off your time.

dna_leri

rom wrote: »

Looking to run well for a few 5k's coming up. PB is 17:52 from last year. Feel I am much faster now.



I would like to do Tues session on feel so that I am not trying to hit paces but see how it happens over a few weeks.

Anyone with an suggestion. Ideally it would be a session that could be done in 50min with warmup and cooldown on a flat route (it may not be possible) but thats what I go to work with for the time being.

Any suggestions ???

Suggestion:
Time/effort based Fartlek
e.g.
10 min warm-up

4 mins at 10K effort,
2 mins easy,
3 mins at 5K effort,
2 mins easy,
1 min at faster than 5K effort,
2 mins easy.

Repeat the set.
10 min cool-down
Total time 48 mins.
Effort means what it feels like I could run a 10K (etc) at today. That means no garmin.

Cona

I am actually following a similar plan for the next 8 weeks so looking forward to keeping an eye on this. Plan is to concentrate on going sub 20 for 5k, most likely in the John Buckley 5k in Marina. My recent race times over 4 and 5 miles show I am close, probably around 20.30 right now.

Going to follow up with a few hard weeks of training and give it a right lash. Planning for 3 sessions a week (Mon, Wed, Fri), a long run and one easier paced effort.

rom

Cona wrote: »

I am actually following a similar plan for the next 8 weeks so looking forward to keeping an eye on this. Plan is to concentrate on going sub 20 for 5k, most likely in the John Buckley 5k in Marina. My recent race times over 4 and 5 miles show I am close, probably around 20.30 right now.

Going to follow up with a few hard weeks of training and give it a right lash. Planning for 3 sessions a week (Mon, Wed, Fri), a long run and one easier paced effort.

I found last year simply doing quality sessions like what they guys were suggesting and just easy running on the other days really helped me. Goal is to be fresh for the sessions.

rom

dna_leri wrote: »

Suggestion:
Time/effort based Fartlek
e.g.
10 min warm-up

4 mins at 10K effort,
2 mins easy,
3 mins at 5K effort,
2 mins easy,
1 min at faster than 5K effort,
2 mins easy.

Repeat the set.
10 min cool-down
Total time 48 mins.
Effort means what it feels like I could run a 10K (etc) at today. That means no garmin.

Thats a really cool one.

rom

Did Krusty's
12 x 200m @3k pace with 200m jog recovery on tues. The garmin 620 is poor for intervals. Mile pace for each was

4:54
5:13
5:15
5:06
4:37
4:57
4:42
5:08
5:16
5:08
5:19
4:55

jog recovery up until rep 9 and then I walked between them. Sign I went too hard.I would like to run sub 5 for the mile on the track in a few weeks. Maybe I should ease these off to 5:10 and be comfortable with the jog recovery between these ? These were done on the road and not track if it makes any difference.

Feedback appreciated.

dna_leri

rom wrote: »

Did Krusty's
12 x 200m @3k pace with 200m jog recovery on tues. The garmin 620 is poor for intervals. Mile pace for each was

4:54
5:13
5:15
5:06
4:37
4:57
4:42
5:08
5:16
5:08
5:19
4:55

jog recovery up until rep 9 and then I walked between them. Sign I went too hard.I would like to run sub 5 for the mile on the track in a few weeks. Maybe I should ease these off to 5:10 and be comfortable with the jog recovery between these ? These were done on the road and not track if it makes any difference.

Feedback appreciated.

Rom,

You are doing them too fast.
You did average mile pace of 5:02 per data above (37s for 200m), that means your 3K pace is 9:23. McMillan equates a 9:23 3K pace to 16:29 5K pace and your PB is 17:52 (I think). Actually you did these close to your mile pace not your 3K pace.

If you take a 5K target pace of 17:30, that's an equivalent 3K pace of just under 10 mins or 40s for 200m (or 5:22 per mile). If you do this session again, use a stop watch to time a pre-measured 200m. Going off Garmin mile pace is not ideal.

BTW I think you have also jumped in at the deep end with a hard 3K pace session. If you have not done a lot of faster pace running recently, to avoid injury, you should work your way up to it with 10K & 5K pace work first.

ecoli

dna_leri wrote: »

Rom,

You are doing them too fast.
You did average mile pace of 5:02 per data above (37s for 200m), that means your 3K pace is 9:23. McMillan equates a 9:23 3K pace to 16:29 5K pace and your PB is 17:52 (I think). Actually you did these close to your mile pace not your 3K pace.

If you take a 5K target pace of 17:30, that's an equivalent 3K pace of just under 10 mins or 40s for 200m (or 5:22 per mile). If you do this session again, use a stop watch to time a pre-measured 200m. Going off Garmin mile pace is not ideal.

BTW I think you have also jumped in at the deep end with a hard 3K pace session. If you have not done a lot of faster pace running recently, to avoid injury, you should work your way up to it with 10K & 5K pace work first.

+1 on this. I would usually opt for progression style workout to get the body used to slowly increasing pace.

I used to make this error when I went warm weather training I always felt I had to be running fast. In 3 years it resulted in 2 niggles coming back and torn Hamstring.

For 1500/5k you will derive almost 95% of your benefits from strength. Speed is important but there are other ways to develop it. Prescribed paces in a session are there for a reason. Train smarter not hard

Krusty_Clown

Hi rom, you can't train for the mile and for the 5k in the same session, as you're only going to hurt yourself (particularly on the road). As dna_leri pointed out, what you actually completed was 12x200 @mile pace, which is an entirely different session (1.5 miles @mile race pace). That session should have been relatively comfortable, with the emphasis on form rather than effort/breathing so done at the right pace, you should have been able to jog between 200s. If you find that you cannot control your pace, or run too fast, then a progression type session is definitely the right approach, as you'll be less likely to do yourself damage. I'd also ave started with the other sessions first (i.e. alternating 400 @5k / 800 steady). You need to get comfortable at 5k pace if your goal is really the 5k.

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi rom, you can't train for the mile and for the 5k in the same session, as you're only going to hurt yourself (particularly on the road). As dna_leri pointed out, what you actually completed was 12x200 @mile pace, which is an entirely different session (1.5 miles @mile race pace). That session should have been relatively comfortable, with the emphasis on form rather than effort/breathing so done at the right pace, you should have been able to jog between 200s. If you find that you cannot control your pace, or run too fast, then a progression type session is definitely the right approach, as you'll be less likely to do yourself damage. I'd also ave started with the other sessions first (i.e. alternating 400 @5k / 800 steady). You need to get comfortable at 5k pace if your goal is really the 5k.

The 5k is the real goal. I am going to run a mile in the graded league monday week but its not the focus. 5k is the focus. Will retry the session. Ideally I would love to do it on the track but it is not possible

Will do it at 5:15 pace and see how I get on. Have a session with the club this evening (could be anything)

rom

According to watch on the track last night session was

7min @ 6:00~ hand timed
6min @ 5:55~ hand timed
5min @ 5:50~ hand timed
4min @ 5:45~ hand timed
3min @ 5:40~ hand timed
2min @ 5:xx - missed my split

with 2mins recovery

Am I doing this too fast also? tbh it didn't feel too bad.

Krusty_Clown

rom wrote: »

According to watch on the track last night session was

7min @ 6:00~ hand timed
6min @ 5:55~ hand timed
5min @ 5:50~ hand timed
4min @ 5:45~ hand timed
3min @ 5:40~ hand timed
2min @ 5:xx - missed my split

with 2mins recovery

Am I doing this too fast also? tbh it didn't feel too bad.

To be honest, it doesn't matter as much if it's a progression run, but you should quit before you fail. Did you make up this session yourself? Dna_leri's suggestion had two minutes easy between segments.

What's your target pace for the 5k?

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

To be honest, it doesn't matter as much if it's a progression run, but you should quit before you fail. Did you make up this session yourself? Dna_leri's suggestion had two minutes easy between segments.

What's your target pace for the 5k?

Nah it was just one with the club. I was getting faster with each one but had a loo stop before the last one so hence no idea of the time. So I wouldn't consider it a failure. I have the number 17mins in my head for the 5k. No idea where I am in relation to that though.

rom

Counting down the weeks to DCM now.

rom

Last week

Mon 7.76 @ easy
Tue 4.85 which included the 12x200m
Wed Rest i think (not sure) could have run 6M
Thurs 6.58 easy
Fri 7/6/5/4/3/2 as above
Sat 7.02 with buggy easy
Sun 18.02 @ 7:53 easy
51M total (ok for 3rd week post marathon)
Feeling fresh. Found 18M easy enough. lets see how I am Wed this week. Thinking about doing the long run with buggy next week. Going to do long run on Sat this week early or maybe Friday evening as have mile race on the monday night on the track.