Parents and pets

iguana

Feeling very p'd off right now. I was looking at a parenting forum for parents of toddlers that I read occasionally and someone posted for advice about how one of their dogs interacts with their toddler. But in reality she just wanted to feel justified in pushing her husband to get rid of the dog due to what from her own description is a result of her awful way of handling the interactions between the dog and the child.

I'm so very annoyed. I'd never recommend someone keeping a dog when there is a very real risk to their child but how can people be so cruel and obtuse to get rid of a family member because of their own stubbornness and laziness? I'll admit, it's been hard, hard work sometimes helping my dogs adjust to the new family dynamic. And I know my life would be easier with out dogs (some days) but I have a responsibility to my whole family, including my dogs, to do what it takes for us all to fit together happily. I can't stand when people get bloody hysterical about normal dog behaviour when it comes to children, make the behaviour worse with their own bad reaction and then punish the dog for it.:mad:

And what a crappy parent they are being, teaching their children by example, terrible lessons about how to treat animals.

tk123

iguana wrote: »

And what a crappy parent they are being, teaching their children by example, terrible lessons about how to treat animals.

It's why the country is the way it is imo. Another example from our park - family gets dog from rescue and months later the dog jumps up on the kid (not a toddler like 8 or 9) and scares it - dumped back in the rescue.

Hooked

And don't get me started on parents letting their 3 year old wander over to the 'cute puppy' (with teeth like needles) or the 'wolf' (70lb husky)... To pet them.

Christ almighty! You don't know me... And my dog doesn't know you!

So... (to those particular parents), will you learn to ask first, if a dog can be approached.

And two, teach them the correct way to interact with (and greet) a strange dog.

Rant over!

mosi

My parents were in the pound once, getting a dog out on behalf of a rescue, when a woman walked in to surrender a JRT that she said "bit the baby". It turned out that she was known by the pound staff, having surrendered dogs for exactly the same reason before. Who knows what she meant by a bite or if the "baby" was a toddler or even an older child, but there is something seriously wrong if such incidents happen repeatedly in a family with different dogs.

Graces7

stuffed toys can be very lifelike and they don't feel pain..

borderlinemeath

It doesn't help that the media tend to use dog bite incidents to whip up mass hysteria. And it's always the dogs fault, never the owners, who don't seem to bother doing any socialisation or acclimatisation with their pet when a new baby arrives, or the children who have taunted or teased or taken something from the dog. And if like me you mostly read papers online, then after the article come the comments from the public who are about as clued up on dog behaviour as I am on astrophysics and they whip up a further shiitstorm.

Tranceypoo

A girl I used to work with told me, when she was preggers the amount of people who said to her 'so when are you getting rid of the dog then?' was staggering, she was really p!ssed off with it as she no intention of getting rid of her beloved dog.

Seems to happen a lot and as OP said, that's the lesson you're teaching your kids about animals! I've seen it around here with one of the neighbours, I actually won't write any more about that because I'll get really cross.

Toots

Tranceypoo wrote: »

A girl I used to work with told me, when she was preggers the amount of people who said to her 'so when are you getting rid of the dog then?' was staggering, she was really p!ssed off with it as she no intention of getting rid of her beloved dog.

Seems to happen a lot and as OP said, that's the lesson you're teaching your kids about animals! I've seen it around here with one of the neighbours, I actually won't write any more about that because I'll get really cross.

I had the exact same, we live in an apartment and so many people were like 'oh you won't have room for the dog and a baby" because for some reason the dog sleeps in the cot :rolleyes:

We've got two dogs now and the biggest hassle we'd have is trying to move somewhere bigger it's hard to find properties to let that are pet friendly. So many people have said "sure just get rid of the dogs" and are genuinely confused when I tell them that's not an option. We're responsible for the dogs, they're a part of our family - I feel dumping them in a pound or putting them through the upheaval of being put with a new family would be us letting them down.

Aside from that, our son would be distraught if we got rid of the dogs (and so would my husband and I). He's only two but he loves the dogs to bits, and the dogs love him. The older one can be a bit nervous around him because he's quite energetic and wants to chase her around, so we make sure we have somewhere that she can hide so she has a spot where she feels safe. The other dog is a few months younger than our son, so she gets on with my son like a house on fire - they're both as mad as each other. The main thing we do is teach the dogs that our son is higher than them in the pecking order, but at the same time teaching our son not to annoy the dogs, especially the older one, by doing things like poking them in the eyes or pulling their ears/tail, or scaring them.

IvySlayer

'Hi, my kids are over there can you keep your dog on a lead in case he bites?'

'No thank you, can you please keep your kids away from my dog?'

'It's the law'

No, lady, sorry, my dog wasn't anywhere near her kids and wouldn't go that far away from me, don't come halfway across a public green to hassle me with some made up laws :rolleyes:

él statutorio

We had something similar when my missus was pregnant. We had a cat at the time and were living in an apartment. Everyone was saying "ooh so you'll be getting rid of the cat then?" We didn't, obviously, in fact we actually got a 2nd cat about 2 months before baby arrived!

Baby is now 2 years old, has really taken to drawing recently. All "pictures" are of her family, mammy, daddy, her, cat 1 and cat 2. She loves those 2 cats and we've never had an issue.

We've never had an issue with the dog in my mams place either. She's mad about him and him about her. He knocked her on her backside a few times when she was learning to walk but once she figured out she could use him as leverage, the pair of them were off!

Joeseph Balls

adverts.ie is gas. I mean you either laugh or cry at it.
Rehoming 3month old pup because baby arrived.
What? You didnt know you were 6mnths pregnant?
People trying to justify 'getting rid' of the pets.

FurBabyMomma

I'm pregnant and have three dogs. Next month I'm starting to bring baby things into the house to prepare my dogs for the new arrival. I mean you'd prepare a child for the arrival if a new baby, right? Always astounds me that people don't think of that. Btw none has said to me yet to get rid of the dogs, but then those who know me wouldn't even question it

Mark.Smith90

In fact having a dog can be good for a child's health and fitness, so it is in the owner's best interest to hang onto the dog for the child's sake as well as there own. Research suggests that dogs can actually prevent your child from developing allergies, asthma, and help build up their immune systems. In a study by the University of California, it was revealed that children who were exposed to dogs from a young age were better able to combat microbes that led to the development of such problems.

Dogs are active animals and aren’t liable to sit and spend hours staring at an illuminated screen. Dogs encourage and compel children to play outdoors, and be more physically active. It is often forgotten that a child’s physical development is as important as their mental development. A dog is a constant reminder, both for children and parents, that exercise and fresh air is important for growing bodies.

Siipina

Oh, I had the same when I was pregnant. A lot of people told me I should get rid of my Dog or at least put her in the garden and when I told them I will never do that, that my Dog is a member of my family and my first "baby" I got told "but she (the dog) will be jealous. Of cause she will be jealous just like an older sibling would be. But it is on me to teach her that there is no need to be jealous and to show her her place in the pack. And it went well. LO is 3 month now and my dog was very protective about LO from the beginning. She is still a bit jealous sometimes but is looking after LO, she is even cleaning him, well its good for the immune system ;-). She is sitting beside him on the blanket in the garden and it watching out.
We never put her away or excluded her but even the Public Health Nurse told me not to let the dog so close to the child and the dog would bite him and I should put her in the garden. On the end I had to bring her into the kitchen but that was because she didnt like LO screaming his head of when the Nurse did the Heal prick test.

bobskii

Good to read this thread . I'm only 4 months pregnant and I'm already sick and tired of people asking when am I going to get rid of my dogs.
I was told today animals shouldn't be let near children that it's disgusting because my 16 month old niece was kissing the top of her dogs head!

jimf

it really makes me laugh the amount of people think that dogs are unhealthy to have around kids

if this was the case my daughter would have picked up some very nasty bugs as I often caught her and jake our dog having every second lick from a cone or a lollipop

oh I miss those days when 4 legs were needed to watch her shes 17 now and im glad to say its her mams job now to watch her

duckysauce

Some child came up my dog a few months ago, mine with her usual stick in mouth , child reefs the stick out of her mouth , I was like fook you are lucky she is well trained and loves kids , parents over weight slobs said nothing to the child . I was going to say something to them, and then just said what's the point my dog has more intelligence than they do.

bobskii

That made me laugh out loud cos my niece does the same with my youngest dog . They adore each other,and I've no doubt with proper introductions they will be fine with the baby when it comes along.
I never continue a discussion with some one when they come out with the' it's just a dog'quote,it's just not worth the effort.

iguana

Mark.Smith90 wrote: »

In fact having a dog can be good for a child's health and fitness, so it is in the owner's best interest to hang onto the dog for the child's sake as well as there own. Research suggests that dogs can actually prevent your child from developing allergies, asthma, and help build up their immune systems. In a study by the University of California, it was revealed that children who were exposed to dogs from a young age were better able to combat microbes that led to the development of such problems.

Whenever anyone says anything to me about getting rid of the dogs I give them a confused, upset look, put on my best Helen Lovejoy face and ask why would they want my little boy to be sick 5 extra times for each illness he has? Children who spend their first year of life, living with dogs who have lots of outdoor exposure, have something like 6 times less incidences of common childhood ailments.

People who make comments about getting rid of the dogs are never going to feel bad at suggesting you get rid of a non-human family member as they just don't see how animals can be family. So I just try to make them feel like they are on the wrong side of the argument by letting them know that their suggestion has the potential to hurt the person they claim to want to protect.

bobskii

People who can say things like that flippantly obviously don't understand what it's like to treat dogs as family members.

Jogathon

IvySlayer wrote: »

'Hi, my kids are over there can you keep your dog on a lead in case he bites?'

'No thank you, can you please keep your kids away from my dog?'

'It's the law'

No, lady, sorry, my dog wasn't anywhere near her kids and wouldn't go that far away from me, don't come halfway across a public green to hassle me with some made up laws :rolleyes:

It is the law that all dogs should be on a lead in a public place. I don't agree with it fully, but it is the law as far as I know.

maggiepip

Jogathon wrote: »

It is the law that all dogs should be on a lead in a public place. I don't agree with it fully, but it is the law as far as I know.

No the law is dogs should be under effective control, so they are entitled to be off lead once the handler has control over them.

sadie06

Jogathon wrote: »

It is the law that all dogs should be on a lead in a public place. I don't agree with it fully, but it is the law as far as I know.

You are more than likely thinking of byelaws , which are in effect in certain areas designated by local authorities, but outside of the jurisdiction of byelaws, dogs do not have to be on a leash.

"Bye-laws
Many local authorities have introduced bye-laws to indicate areas where dogs must be kept on a leash or even prohibited. Your local authority will be able to inform you of the bye-laws that apply in your area. Breaches of these bye-laws can result in fines on summary conviction"

andreac

Jogathon wrote: »

It is the law that all dogs should be on a lead in a public place. I don't agree with it fully, but it is the law as far as I know.

Its not the law actually.

FurBabyMomma

Just for clarification: Control of Dogs states that a dog must be 'under control' in public, so they can be off lead in the eyes of the law. UNLESS the are a restricted breed - these dogs are required to be on lead, muzzled and under the control of someone min. age 16 at all times in public. As another poster stated, some parks etc might have additional conditions but the above is the law as it stands across the country.

I'm also pregnant and have 3 dogs, including a Rottweiler. No-one that knows me has been stupid enough to suggest I get rid of them or put them outside as they know where that would get them ;-) But then I have invested the time in training them and I will prepare them for baby's arrival. And I also won't take any chances and leave them alone with the baby, as much as I love and trust them. People just need to use common sense.

smacl

Graces7 wrote: »

stuffed toys can be very lifelike and they don't feel pain..

True, though our back room currently looks like the set for a muppet slasher movie. I think Gonzo and Beaker have seen their last. Still, better them than my shoes...

otwb

Am not sure if this needs it's own thread - but what do you do when the reverse happens? Have recently moved to a house with fantastic garden, due baby any day now... how long do I need to wait to get the dog??

(first time parent, but experienced former pet owner - had been working full time and living in an apartment so no opportunity for dogs for the last 10 years!)

FurBabyMomma

otwb wrote: »

Am not sure if this needs it's own thread - but what do you do when the reverse happens? Have recently moved to a house with fantastic garden, due baby any day now... how long do I need to wait to get the dog??

(first time parent, but experienced former pet owner - had been working full time and living in an apartment so no opportunity for dogs for the last 10 years!)

I don't think anyone can answer that question for you! You'll know yourself after the child is born and it gets to the stage when the sleepless nights are not so frequent, when you finally have time to have a second to yourself and can think about having time to train a dog... So in about 18 years ha!

Coming from a rescue background though, where I see parents taking in too much when their child is a baby, I think you're looking at a year at the very minimum.

DBB

Hi otwb,
It is true that everyone is different... It depends on the dog, the child, the parents!
But one thing I will say is that for many, many dogs, even mild-mannered ones, the toddling phase can be an exceptionally difficult time, because the child is noisy, clumsy, relentless, they grab fur and ears very hard (obviously not intentionally hurting the dog), they fall on top of the dog, and critically, they cannot interpret that the dog is trying to tell them to go away, so they continue to frighten or anger the dog despite the dog's best efforts to politely get rid!
In addition to ignoring the dog's warnings, toddlers also cannot heed or understand parental warnings!
Needless to say, it's at around this stage of family life that so, so many dogs are turfed out into the garden or surrendered to rescue.
Depending on the dog, many parents cope well with toddler/dog interactions, but it does take a LOT of management and watching like a hawk... It also takes a really child-friendly dog.
So, just some food for thought that might help you formulate a decision :-)

Whispered

What would be the main things for a dog owning first time parent to consider during pregnancy?

DBB

Whispered wrote: »

What would be the main things for a dog owning first time parent to consider during pregnancy?

I think it's critical for the parents-to-be to live life as if baby is already there, from as early into the pregnancy as possible.
The aim should be for everything baby-related to be humdrum, and part of normal life before baby ever arrives.
That goes for buggies, noisy toys, Moses baskets, baby noises including loud crying in the middle of the night, carrying baby, and that the dog is trained to greet without jumping up, to be calm when baby is being fed and carried, to be used to some curtailment like crates, playpens and baby gates, to be used to walking beside the buggy without pulling... There are so many things that can help!

NickD

When did we as a society become so ridiculous? I, along with 99% of the population, was raised with pets. We had dogs, cat, birds and fish. There was never a question of allergies or the dogs being 'a danger.' They were just part and parcel of the family. There was a neighbour's dog that was a bit mad but we were told not to go near him and they kept an eye on him. That was the height of it. People need to cop on to themselves.

Whispered

NickD wrote: »

When did we as a society become so ridiculous? I, along with 99% of the population, was raised with pets. We had dogs, cat, birds and fish. There was never a question of allergies or the dogs being 'a danger.' They were just part and parcel of the family. There was a neighbour's dog that was a bit mad but we were told not to go near him and they kept an eye on him. That was the height of it. People need to cop on to themselves.

Nick I was brought up in the same way. I remember being very young and sitting in the kennel with a lurcher, we were told how to treat the dogs and that was that. It's a lovely way to be brought up. Maybe now with instant online news we are hearing so many more bad stories, about all walks of life, people are becoming more paranoid.

In saying that, while a bit of dog hair won't bother me when the baby is born, and I don't think I will ever have to wash a foodie baby face (Joking..........kinda) I will very closely monitor every interaction between baby and dogs, but it will be as much for my dogs well being as for the babies.

NickD

Whispered wrote: »

Nick I was brought up in the same way. I remember being very young and sitting in the kennel with a lurcher, we were told how to treat the dogs and that was that. It's a lovely way to be brought up. Maybe now with instant online news we are hearing so many more bad stories, about all walks of life, people are becoming more paranoid.

In saying that, while a bit of dog hair won't bother me when the baby is born, and I don't think I will ever have to wash a foodie baby face (Joking..........kinda) I will very closely monitor every interaction between baby and dogs, but it will be as much for my dogs well being as for the babies.

Exactly, it is just monitoring both the kiddies and the dogs. I have three kiddies and two dogs and they are best buddies. They all know exactly what behaviour is expected by them and I have never had an ounce of trouble with any of them.

That said I saw a mother the other day who's 2 year old was knocking the head off their dog ( a staff) she said 'Oh he (the kid) is just so rough, and the dog doesn't mind, he does it all the time.'

Poor dog.

iguana

I think it depends on the dog. I was quite surprised with my dogs that when we first brought S home as it was quickly obvious that they thought he was an extremely interesting new toy that we had brought home but were keeping from them. It hadn't occurred to me that they wouldn't realise he was a small person but in hindsight we often gave them moving, mewling toys so why wouldn't they think that the moving, mewling bundle we'd just brought home was for them. They were at first excited and then upset at not been given this new toy and they would keep sitting very intently (as they have been trained to sit before getting food/a treat/ a toy) then quivering with anticipation before Toby would yelp with frustration to be given the new toy. Thankfully a few weeks before we stocked up on lots of new toys for them as we'd anticipated them being bored while we adjusted to the baby so we were able to occupy them with those.

Over the next few days, we very carefully let them see and smell S so they could figure out what he was. We always did this with one dog at a time in the room and several adults about, so one dog wouldn't over-excite the other and so we could quickly separate dog and baby if necessary, though it was never necessary. We also made sure not to dress S in anything that made him look more like a toy, so no furry Tigger/teddy suits in the early weeks. (At 6 weeks old after the dogs had stopped thinking of him as a toy, he was in a Tigger suit on my husband's shoulder when Dougal walked into the room and went to jump for him. He realised mid-jump that he was going for S and ran straight into his bed looking very worried but it really goes to show that those suits are a liability around teddy loving dogs.) And we spent as much time as possible all in the same room together, as I think that made it easier for the dogs to accept him as an everyday part of our lives, rather than the mysterious creature in the other room. They quite quickly realised he wasn't a toy, Toby became bored of him and Dougal developed an urge to 'mother' him, always nudging me to get him if he cried and trying to groom him every chance he got(which I had a thread about last year).

S is 20 months old now and the dogs are one of his favourite things in the world, the first word he understood, apart from his own name, was doggy. His first proper word was doggy. He has never laughed so much in his life as the first time he watched me play fetch with the dogs. I'm trying to teach him now, that not all doggies are the same. As my parents have a very nervous rescue dog who does not experience the happiness my two do at S's attempts to throw a ball for him. I think it's a bit early for him to understand this point but it's never too early for me to start saying it, as it's a really important thing for a child who loves dogs to understand.

Whispered

I love that post

Some great points too - thank you.

Raminahobbin

NickD wrote: »

When did we as a society become so ridiculous? I, along with 99% of the population, was raised with pets. We had dogs, cat, birds and fish. There was never a question of allergies or the dogs being 'a danger.' They were just part and parcel of the family. There was a neighbour's dog that was a bit mad but we were told not to go near him and they kept an eye on him. That was the height of it. People need to cop on to themselves.

So true! I didn't have any pets until we got my first dog at 7, but I was ALWAYS out playing with the dogs that were let loose around the estate. They were 'mine' and we got on great. Even down at my nanny's farm, they had a bunch of dogs that I used to run around with every summer since I was a toddler- if I ever got knocked down, or bitten (never anything serious, usually just play) I was told not to annoy the dog. I don't recall them EVER being blamed for any little accidents that used to occur, it was always either my fault, or just 'one of those things'.

ShaShaBear

Whispered wrote: »

What would be the main things for a dog owning first time parent to consider during pregnancy?

We've made sure that the dog has somewhere special to go where he will not be bothered by us or by the baby. It's dark, warm, comfortable and away from anywhere the baby would likely be for more than a minute, while still being inside the house and also not being somewhere he wouldn't normally go of his own volition.

We've made sure that he is comfortable with, and recognises the sound of a baby laughing, crying, whinging and even screaming. We know none of these noises startle, upset or aggravate him when they don't continue for an extraordinary amount of time (in which case he goes to his special place).

We've ensured that none of the more "permanent" baby furniture (eg cot) directly prevents him from doing something he would normally do (eg we didn't go and put it right on the part of the floor that he always sleeps).

We've made sure that we can still provide him with the same level of attention when the baby is here as we did before, and if there is something we cannot provide at the same level or quantity, we've slowly reduced it/changed it now so that he doesn't get shocked or upset by a sudden change (eg the time of day he is walked, we've edged it to a more suitable time in the evening so he doesn't get ratty all day thinking he won't get a walk now ).

We've also taken the time to get him used to not climbing onto either of us or demanding physical attention from us when we have a "bundle" in our hands. The bundle is just a baby blanket with a bit of baby powder and sudocrem rubbed onto it (the closest we could make it to smelling like a baby) with a doll in it, but he knows that when we hold it that he cant sit on your knee or "nose" your hand for a pet/rub. We always give him a treat when the bundle goes away, so he doesn't feel left out, and knows that when we don't have the bundle, he still gets attention

Millem

Whispered wrote: »

What would be the main things for a dog owning first time parent to consider during pregnancy?

Congrats whispered we welcomed our bundle in January dogs are soooo amazing they got me through my pregnancy when I was so sick I will never ever forget it. They would literally lie outside the bathroom door and even though the knew it was past dinner time they didn't do their usual "river dance" or they would just curl up beside me in the bed all day. When I was in labour they didn't come near me! We made any changes that we wanted to implement very early on in the pregnancy eg not allowed on couch in front room, dog gates on kitchen door which they had to stay there if visitors came or we went out etc I trained them to walk together on the lead so I had one hand free (for buggy!). We set up everything and put them in place from 30ish weeks so our blind dog could get used to it. I came out of hospital a few hours after the birth and none of them batted an eyelid! To this day one dog pays absolutely no attention to him, the eldest loves him but is blind so we be careful when buying our baby products! The youngest loves him, the other one has no interest in him at all, in fact when he tries to move towards her she just gets up and walks away! It's weird they just "know" not to be rowdy (jump) etc near high chair. My dogs are obsessed with food (they are labs) we are talking puddles of drool and they never ever go near him when he is eating. We do have a rule in our house that they must go to their beds if anyone is eating though
He never bats an eyelid if he hears barking but I suppose he was so used to it!