Another rules query

Benicetomonty

An odd one here but as always help appreciated. Ball is hit into water hazard. Current of said water hazard drags ball downstream until it eventually crosses a boundary line of the course. Is it designated in the water or out of bounds?

Should say this sequence of events took place last sunday in the grange (18th) so possible a local rule may exist.

LinksLad

Benicetomonty wrote: »

An odd one here but as always help appreciated. Ball is hit into water hazard. Current of said water hazard drags ball downstream until it eventually crosses a boundary line of the course. Is it designated in the water or out of bounds?

Should say this sequence of events took place last sunday in the grange (18th) so possible a local rule may exist.

Not 100%, but doesn't it only matter where the ball crossed the line of the hazard?

paulos53

It is classed as OOB

Similarly if a ball hit Out of Bounds is brought back in bounds by water then it is classed as being in the water hazard.

So where the ball comes to rest is effectively the deciding factor.

Paulusmaximus

I'd have to think it is in the water hazard.

However, did the ball come out of the water hazard before crossing the boundary line? if so, it came back into play so i'd then say OOB.

Benicetomonty

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

I'd have to think it is in the water hazard.

However, did the ball come out of the water hazard before crossing the boundary line? if so, it came back into play so i'd then say OOB.

No, it never left the hazard. It went in left of the bridge (for anyone the knows the place) and finished right of it. Dont know if it came to rest for the requisite 10 seconds in the meantime, but seems possible as we were a while getting to it and it was only just on the wrong side.

LinksLad

Decisions 26-1/7 Ball Moved Out of Bounds by Flow of Water in Water Hazard

Q.The flow of water in a water hazard carries a ball out of bounds. May the player invoke Rule 26-1?


A. No. Since the ball lies out of bounds, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1. Water is not an outside agency – see Definition of “Outside Agency” – and thus the ball would not be replaced under Rule 18-1.
In a situation where it is likely that a ball will be carried out of bounds by the flow of water in a water hazard, it is suggested that a screen be installed to prevent such an occurrence.

So much for my earlier answer!

Arsenium

There was a quiz on the rules app from the R&A that I used to mess around with a year or so ago and this exact scenario is one of the questions. Mutli choice answers. I went with the option that it was still in bounds. But was amazed to discover that the ball is actually out of bounds. I think....

I'll launch the app again and see if it is still there.

Benicetomonty

LinksLad wrote: »

Decisions 26-1/7 Ball Moved Out of Bounds by Flow of Water in Water Hazard

Q.The flow of water in a water hazard carries a ball out of bounds. May the player invoke Rule 26-1?


A. No. Since the ball lies out of bounds, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1. Water is not an outside agency – see Definition of “Outside Agency” – and thus the ball would not be replaced under Rule 18-1.
In a situation where it is likely that a ball will be carried out of bounds by the flow of water in a water hazard, it is suggested that a screen be installed to prevent such an occurrence.

So much for my earlier answer!

Thanks for clarifying. Yet another ridiculous rule however imho. As one of my playing partners pointed out, the ball couldve taken an hour to go ob if the stream was big/ long enough and we went in far enough upstream! Not applicable to the Grange maybe but Id say there are other tracks with water complexes sprawling enough to create uncertanties. 17th at the K Club immediately comes to mind..

LinksLad

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying. Yet another ridiculous rule however imho. As one of my playing partners pointed out, the ball couldve taken an hour to go ob if the stream was big/ long enough and we went in far enough upstream! Not applicable to the Grange maybe but Id say there are other tracks with water complexes sprawling enough to create uncertanties. 17th at the K Club immediately comes to mind..

Couldn't agree more that this is ridiculous. The corollary of this rule is that if a ball is hit OB, and is then carried back in by the flow, the ball is back in play!

BoardsMember

LinksLad wrote: »

In a situation where it is likely that a ball will be carried out of bounds by the flow of water in a water hazard, it is suggested that a screen be installed to prevent such an occurrence.

So much for my earlier answer!

Great idea. And sure the leaves and all wouldn't block the screen and cause floods or anything like that.

Norfolk Enchants_

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying. Yet another ridiculous rule however imho. As one of my playing partners pointed out, the ball couldve taken an hour to go ob if the stream was big/ long enough and we went in far enough upstream! Not applicable to the Grange maybe but Id say there are other tracks with water complexes sprawling enough to create uncertanties. 17th at the K Club immediately comes to mind..

Just don't hit it in the water:pac::pac:, unless you hit it OOB first, in which case you may wish/hope it hits the stream and comes back into play.
Not sure what your playing partner was on about, was he suggesting you should stand around and wait and see what happens "just in case", now that would be ridiculous, in any case once you play your next shot, that is the ball in play so what happens subsequently to your "lost ball" is irrelevant.

GreeBo

That decision is actually based on a query to the R&A from Grange itself.

We added a weir a few years ago to (hopefully) stop most balls going under the bridge, but still possible in high water situations.

The secret is to not look for the ball in the hazard and just drop in line with flag & entrypoint (assuming you are virtually certain it went in the hazard)

There is little to be gained from finding it since the hazard lines have been changed so that its pretty difficult to lose the ball anywhere outside of the hazard and dropping near the hazard gives you a baldy, downhill lie.
I'd just blame your foursomes partner !

/edit
you could hit it into the river on the 1st or second hole and it could flow OOB potentially (under the bridge)
funnily enough I think if you did wait long enough it would be back in bounds behind the first tee