NCT Failed due to HID BULB!

Serphentis

Howdy folks, something really bazar happened and I am trying to wrap my head around it... I just failed the NCT because of two things:

1 - Bulb fitted - aftermarket HID - needs to be changed to Halogen
2 - Headlights alignment

for the second one no argument I will go sort this one out, but the fact that I have a xenon lights ( not the bulbs I have replaced the entire housing) and I need to replace these, seems like total BS to me. I am not trying to be a prick here, the car is going for a full engine re-build, as the timing chain is ****ed and it leaks coolant and oil, 2.5K euro Fix, and I am failed on Bulb seems ridiculous.

I have passed the NCT last year with the exact same lights, and I am wondering if they have introduced some sort of bulb check now?

Any one seen / heard anything about it?

Thank you in advance,
Niko

Kimbot

Niko,

What car is it?

I know they are saying aftermarket HIDS are a fail on the NCT but if your car came with them as standard then they cant fail it AFAIK.

Mycroft H

What sort of housing? Xenons require to be auto levelling as far as I know.

The latter, the alignment, is probably due to the xenons

Serphentis

Its a 3 Series BMW 2003. They were not fitted by design, I had to order a new set of headlights ( bulbs and housing all together).

Now I am not sure if I need to swap the High Beams or the low beams as they are both HID...

very very weird

Serphentis

Fully functional lights, as if they were installed from the factory, they have the auto levelling as well, I haven't touched the alignment since last year when I fitted them

Chimaera

Are they BMW lamps or an aftermarket brand?

The rules on HIDs have been tightened up a lot this year, so conversions must meet the entire requirements that were in force for the year the car was manufactured. For 2003, it's likely headlamp washers were required and if you don't have those, it may be why you failed.

slimjimmc

Serphentis wrote: »

Fully functional lights, as if they were installed from the factory, they have the auto levelling as well, I haven't touched the alignment since last year when I fitted them

If the HID kit has the properly designed lens suited to HIDs, conforms to relevant EU standards, and has auto-levelling and washers then there should be no problem.

tossy

Did you retro fit the auto leveling system along with the lights?

Serphentis

tossy wrote: »

Did you retro fit the auto leveling system along with the lights?

Nope the levelling fits to the one build in already, no need to adjust anything.

Serphentis

slimjimmc wrote: »

If the HID kit has the properly designed lens suited to HIDs, conforms to relevant EU standards, and has auto-levelling and washers then there should be no problem.

Ahh ouu right! I don't have washers so this might be the reason why... would this apply for the Low and high beams or only the low ones?

slimjimmc

Serphentis wrote: »

Ahh ouu right! I don't have washers so this might be the reason why... would this apply for the Low and high beams or only the low ones?

Low beam. It's so that you can clean the lens to prevent glare to oncoming traffic, as does as having your dip beam properly aligned.

tossy

Serphentis wrote: »

Nope the levelling fits to the one build in already, no need to adjust anything.

That's not auto leveling though is it ? Auto leveling needs to be connected sensors on the suspension front and back. I don't know how the NCT test if the auto leveling is working though.

Serphentis

slimjimmc wrote: »

Low beam. It's so that you can clean the lens to prevent glare to oncoming traffic, as well as having your dip beam properly aligned.

Thank you for this! It does help me clarify the ask, and also as Chimaera pointed out that the rules were tightened I would imagine why is this coming up this year

Donnelly117

tossy wrote: »

That's not auto leveling though is it ? Auto leveling needs to be connected sensors on the suspension front and back. I don't know how the NCT test if the auto leveling is working though.

Its quite noticeable. My lights dip all the way down and come back up when you turn on the engine. I always thought it was headlight washers were mandatory and auto-leveling wasnt?

slimjimmc

tossy wrote: »

That's not auto leveling though is it ? Auto leveling needs to be connected sensors on the suspension front and back. I don't know how the NCT test if the auto leveling is working though.

There was big discussion some time ago on this very subject
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057130844&page=1

What I learned was that
- auto-levelling may not be required; if a vehicle has type approval for manual adjusters then that is fine.
- Washers are required where the lamp puts out more than 2000 lumens.
- The NCT regulations can only fail if a levelling device or cleaning device are mandatory as above.

If in doubt check with your car's manufacturer to determine what is mandatory for your specific car.

tossy

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Its quite noticeable. My lights dip all the way down and come back up when you turn on the engine. I always thought it was headlight washers were mandatory and auto-leveling wasnt?

I watched the NCT guy testing my car and i never seen him do anything to test if the Auto leveling was working, when he turned on the lights it was too bright in the centre for him to be able to tell if the moved or not.

Donnelly117

tossy wrote: »

I watched the NCT guy testing my car and i never seen him do anything to test if the Auto leveling was working, when he turned on the lights it was too bright in the centre for him to be able to tell if the moved or not.

If the lights are shining on anything its noticeable, even during the day i can see it on the wall I park in front of...

tossy

Donnelly117 wrote: »

If the lights are shining on anything its noticeable, even during the day i can see it on the wall I park in front of...

It's not noticeable in an NCT centre with nothing in front of you, as if it was or he was looking he would of noticed that it's not working on one light lol

mullingar

These are the rules:

When buying a car NEW with HIDS:

- Will have washer jets
- Will have Self-leveling system

NCT:
- Must have washer jets.
- Self leveling not tested. Levels checked as per same test as standard Halogen lights

ION08

Since when did aftermarket HID's become a fail??

I have passed all my NCT's with HID's installed, the last one being in Jan of this year!

tossy

tossy wrote: »

That's not auto leveling though is it ? Auto leveling needs to be connected sensors on the suspension front and back. I don't know how the NCT test if the auto leveling is working though.

Auto leveling was pretty standard on e46 BMWs as far as I know. My 01 318ci had auto leveling anyway for sure (obviously just with a standard halogen setup).

Every time you started the car the lights would move up and down and settle in the correct position.

Just out of interest, why are headlamp washers such a big deal with HIDs??

mullingar

ION08 wrote: »

Since when did aftermarket HID's become a fail??

I have passed all my NCT's with HID's installed, the last one being in Jan of this year!

About 2 years ago - you might have just got lucky with a lazy tester.

Bottom line is that a HID bulb will only pass in a HID-approved headlight with washers

tossy

Jerry Noisy Odometer wrote: »

Auto leveling was pretty standard on e46 BMWs as far as I know. My 01 318ci had auto leveling anyway for sure (obviously just with a standard halogen setup).

Every time you started the car the lights would move up and down and settle in the correct position.

I didn't know that.

ION08

mullingar wrote: »

About 2 years ago - you might have just got lucky with a lazy tester.

Bottom line is that a HID bulb will only pass in a HID-approved headlight with washers

I must have! I passed both my previous 2 tests with aftermarket HID's..

Althought they do look OEM - Audi A4 projector lens 6,000k temp

Wibbs

mullingar wrote: »

These are the rules:

When buying a car NEW with HIDS:

- Will have washer jets
- Will have Self-leveling system

NCT:
- Must have washer jets.
- Self leveling not tested. Levels checked as per same test as standard Halogen lights

I love how people can be so sure of "facts". Incorrect, or incomplete anyway. If the car came with HIDs as standard but didn't have leveling and/or washers as standard then they can't fail it on those points. Quite the number of cars from the late 90's/early noughties came as standard without one or both of these items(mine included. It has neither self leveling, nor washers).

mickdw

Just to point out. Just because the lights move up and down on start up, this does not mean the levelling system is functioning (on audi at least).
I had the rear ride height sensor fail on my car last week. Auto levelling could no longer function but I still got the sweep of the lights on start up (probably resting at a default position). Fortunately, it was an easy fix anyway.
This could never be reasonably tested at an NCT though so it must be washers and correct housing that is looked at.

tossy

ION08 wrote: »

I must have! I passed both my previous 2 tests with aftermarket HID's..

Althought they do look OEM - Audi A4 projector lens 6,000k temp

Did you take the yellow plates off for the test ?

challengemaster

Jerry Noisy Odometer wrote: »

Auto leveling was pretty standard on e46 BMWs as far as I know. My 01 318ci had auto leveling anyway for sure (obviously just with a standard halogen setup).

Every time you started the car the lights would move up and down and settle in the correct position.

That isn't auto-levelling though, that's just when they switch on. The auto-levelling system that is on E46's with Xenon installs has extra sensors built into the front/rear suspension as tossy said.

E46's with halogen installs have a manual adjuster on the light switch. Cars with auto-levelling don't have this.

djimi

I had this issue earlier on in the year (as documented in the link posted above). Basically, if the car has factory fitted, stock HID headlights then it doesnt matter whether they have leavellers/washers or not; the NCT cannot fail them on this basis. You may have a fight on your hands with this however; I had to get Honda involved before the NCT would pass my car.

However, if the car has aftermarket HID headlights they might have levellers (be it automatic or an adjustment switch on the dash), and also washers. From what I can see there is no leeway on this; if you have failed on this then you will have to change the lights back to non-HIDs in order to pass the NCT (or fit HIDs that comply with regulation, but from what I can gather not many aftermarket kits do).