Question for the IM veterans?

Rawhead

Doing Frankfurt in July. Despite a few small niggles training is going well. Did a good bike at the weekend, 150km in 5hrs, all in low Z2 (avg 189watts). I don't think I took in enough nutrition though as I was starting to bonk towards the end and I would have really struggled with a long run had I done a brick session.
My question is, should I be coming off the bike chomping to do the run? Or is it a case of being fatigued no matter what and just a case of slogging out the run? I premise this on nutrition, training and pacing being right.
Secondly, for this length bike ride what would your normal carb intake be?
I had 3 lidl brand mars bars @24g carbs, 3 Powerbar gels and 2.25 litre of water with zero tabs.
Thanks for any help.

tunney

Rawhead wrote: »

Doing Frankfurt in July. Despite a few small niggles training is going well. Did a good bike at the weekend, 150km in 5hrs, all in low Z2 (avg 189watts). I don't think I took in enough nutrition though as I was starting to bonk towards the end and I would have really struggled with a long run had I done a brick session.
My question is, should I be coming off the bike chomping to do the run? Or is it a case of being fatigued no matter what and just a case of slogging out the run? I premise this on nutrition, training and pacing being right.
Secondly, for this length bike ride what would your normal carb intake be?
I had 3 lidl brand mars bars @24g carbs, 3 Powerbar gels and 2.25 litre of water with zero tabs.
Thanks for any help.

Too few carbs, also mars bars of any brand???

I did frankfurt a few years ago, decent but not agressive position, 75kg at the time and 5ft ten, 189 ap got me around in 5:20

You should ideally come off the bike fresh as a daisy and be able to run unhindered by fatigue for a good 20-30km.

Thats the theory I'm doing frankfurt this year again and will be a jibbering mess off the bike.

tunney

you are looking for between 240-320 kcal an hour. thats 2-3 gels an hour. Obviously thats on race day not in every training session but you should to 1-2 sessions on race day nutrition

Rawhead

I am aiming for 11hrs so need around 5:30ish on the bike. I'll work on the nutrition, probably need to double my intake. I'm happy enough at this stage with the progress, I just needed to confirm my thoughts on the bike to run.
I'm 6'1" and currently 80kg, what kind of power average would I need to be aiming for on the bike for a 5:30 bike?
Thanks for the help.

tunney

Rawhead wrote: »

I am aiming for 11hrs so need around 5:30ish on the bike. I'll work on the nutrition, probably need to double my intake. I'm happy enough at this stage with the progress, I just needed to confirm my thoughts on the bike to run.
I'm 6'1" and currently 80kg, what kind of power average would I need to be aiming for on the bike for a 5:30 bike?
Thanks for the help.

You can't just double your calories. Everyone has a personal upper limit of what they can "tolerate" by tolerate I mean consume without getting the sh1ts on the run, and gassy and bloated. you need to experiment to find what your upper limit is.

I don't know what you would need to hold but anything near 200 watts typically results in a reasonable bike time for normal shaped males.

Tom__JNR

tunney wrote: »

You can't just double your calories. Everyone has a personal upper limit of what they can "tolerate" by tolerate I mean consume without getting the sh1ts on the run, and gassy and bloated. you need to experiment to find what your upper limit is.

I don't know what you would need to hold but anything near 200 watts typically results in a reasonable bike time for normal shaped males.

Add some liquids as well, all food bar gels is very dry.

I was trying to eat every 30 min around 100kcal from food and drink carbs as well during 70.3 bike legs. My drinks were more water than carbs if you know what I mean.

Rawhead

tunney wrote: »

You can't just double your calories. Everyone has a personal upper limit of what they can "tolerate" by tolerate I mean consume without getting the sh1ts on the run, and gassy and bloated. you need to experiment to find what your upper limit is.

I don't know what you would need to hold but anything near 200 watts typically results in a reasonable bike time for normal shaped males.

Good enough. I'll start experimenting with the nutrition.
Final question if you don't mind, TT helmet or decent aero road?

griffin100

tunney wrote: »

you are looking for between 240-320 kcal an hour. thats 2-3 gels an hour. Obviously thats on race day not in every training session but you should to 1-2 sessions on race day nutrition

Similar for me. I take a isogel every 20 mins or so on the bike (can get 10 in a bike bottle). I also tend to supplement this with a piece of 'solid' food every hr or so, be it a banana or a few wine gums, but then again I'm a fat git and closer to 90kg so need that bit extra. My last gel on the bike is usually caffeinated.

tunney

Tom__JNR wrote: »

Add some liquids as well, all food bar gels is very dry.

I was trying to eat every 30 min around 100kcal from food and drink carbs as well during 70.3 bike legs. My drinks were more water than carbs if you know what I mean.

World of difference between 70.30 and IM. you don't really need to worry too much about a 70.30, you can fvck that up and not get punished.

Nutrition strategies can be as complex or as simple as you want. I've tried complex and simple always wins. Simple and self sufficient (bar water)

mossym

tunney wrote: »

you are looking for between 240-320 kcal an hour. thats 2-3 gels an hour. Obviously thats on race day not in every training session but you should to 1-2 sessions on race day nutrition

curoius, how much would you drop to if it is a training ride?

tunney

Rawhead wrote: »

Good enough. I'll start experimenting with the nutrition.
Final question if you don't mind, TT helmet or decent aero road?

Personal preference. TT for me. Rode in 40 degrees in an aero and for me it was fine. Shave my head though for races when in shape (where shape != roundy)

tunney

mossym wrote: »

curoius, how much would you drop to if it is a training ride?

How long is a piece of string?

Always do first hour of any ride fasted, ideally without breakfast. Then depends how long I am out for. < three hours a sports drink or a gel around an hour and again at two hours. > three hours something on the half hour.

Always bring four gels more than I think I'd need though.

tunney

Frankkfurt give water and "ISO, ISO, ISO" in 500ml water bottles, ones that fit in frame holders, although at one or two of the aid stations in 2011 they were the ballygowan style bottles. Power bar gels and drink but you cannot trust the concentration of any drink.

Tuc biscuits and coke on the run (num num num)

Rawhead

tunney wrote: »

World of difference between 70.30 and IM. you don't really need to worry too much about a 70.30, you can fvck that up and not get punished.

Nutrition strategies can be as complex or as simple as you want. I've tried complex and simple always wins. Simple and self sufficient (bar water)

That's my plan, carry my own nutrition and just get water on the bike. I'm using Powerbar branded products during training in case I need to use any during the race, that way I'll be used to them. I also plan to use their gels on the run.
I'm going to do the an post 160km in Sligo next month and plan to use that as a nutrition trial.
Thanks for the tips.

jester1980

griffin100 wrote: »

Similar for me. I take a isogel every 20 mins or so on the bike (can get 10 in a bike bottle). .

Does this not wreck your stomach taking all these gels? Found after 3 or so i cant stomach any more,,

griffin100

jester1980 wrote: »

Does this not wreck your stomach taking all these gels? Found after 3 or so i cant stomach any more,,

Nah, this works quite well for me. I can take 15-16 gels on the bike without any problems. In my first IM though I got it wrong and took in far too many calories and got series GI trouble at the end of the bike and half way thorugh the run.

bopperr

Anyone use salt tablets when racing an IM on the continent?... I sweat a crazy amount. First IM coming up in Roth.

tunney

bopperr wrote: »

Anyone use salt tablets when racing an IM on the continent?... I sweat a crazy amount. First IM coming up in Roth.

Yes, but experiment before you take them as they are rip some peoples tummies apart.

Do they work? Who knows. Still take the, anyways

speedyj

Never tried them myself. What I have done with the same "just in case" in mind is to have a disposable 500ml bottle of water in my T2 bag with 2 Dioralyte in it. Then I just drink it over the first km or two and dispose at the first aid station.

Even without the Dioralyte is handy for giving you something do focus on other than overcooking the run early on :-)

bopperr

Tri suit all the way or bike shorts/bike top after swim and then tri-suit (2 piece)?... interested to hear what you have done and why. Also what way would you go if racing another?

tunney

bopperr wrote: »

Tri suit all the way or bike shorts/bike top after swim and then tri-suit (2 piece)?... interested to hear what you have done and why. Also what way would you go if racing another?

Trishorts in the swim, on the bike and one the run.

Full length zip bike jersey on the bike (pockets pre stuffed) running vest on the run

Oryx

bopperr wrote: »

Tri suit all the way or bike shorts/bike top after swim and then tri-suit (2 piece)?... interested to hear what you have done and why. Also what way would you go if racing another?

Trisuit because 2 piece doesnt fit me right (the top rides up). Trisuits are awkward for long distance cos of toilet breaks. Long distance suits need pockets.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

Trisuit because 2 piece doesnt fit me right (the top rides up).

Emmmmmmm...... get them out for the lads???