Wondering if there's a future in it at all....

muppetkiller

Hi Folks,
Just wondering what you all think of my Situation. I'm having serious doubts about the future of my relationship. I'm seeing a simply wonderful girl (Eastern European) who is one of the kindest and loving individuals I've ever met BUT and it's a big but is up to her eyeballs in Debt and it is killing our relationship.
Basically she has a Mortgage back in her home country which is consuming most of her wages (Which I might add are minimum wage).
It's around 30k but will takes at least 10 years for her to pay it off. She's doing a degree in a subject which have no real career prospects in this country but it's what she loves so who am I to tell her not to do it.

We have little if any social life because of the finance issues. I'm very independent which she is not, so I get the guilt trip if I want to go out for a night as she's always on about saving money. I also want to see more of the world but cannot because she wants to spend any of the few days she gets off at home.

I've a good job that pays well and I'm looking at saving for a deposit on a place . But she can't help in that regard because of the debt.

But here's the issue I have...We're seeing each other now for two years and are both in our 30's. She wants kids pretty lively and is worried about her age (33 which I don't think is exactly a granny but she thinks it is ) but there isn't a hope in hell I'm having kids until I have a roof for them and enough money to provide them a good life. And even if we did have kids now she'd stop working and we couldn't even afford her mortgage and the Rent then.

I have spoken to her about it and she just gets depressed and says that we will get by but it will be tough. I think she's not fully understanding the situation. I'm also all she has in Ireland too so I am worried about what a breakup could do to her.

I do truly Love her but am finding it difficult to see a future
Am I being unreasonable ? Is breaking up over money a horrible thing to do. I was aware of the debt when we started seeing each other but I guess I never thought that far down the line.

maria34

muppetkiller wrote: »

Hi Folks,
Just wondering what you all think of my Situation. I'm having serious doubts about the future of my relationship. I'm seeing a simply wonderful girl (Eastern European) who is one of the kindest and loving individuals I've ever met BUT and it's a big but is up to her eyeballs in Debt and it is killing our relationship.
Basically she has a Mortgage back in her home country which is consuming most of her wages (Which I might add are minimum wage).
It's around 30k but will takes at least 10 years for her to pay it off. She's doing a degree in a subject which have no real career prospects in this country but it's what she loves so who am I to tell her not to do it.

We have little if any social life because of the finance issues. I'm very independent which she is not, so I get the guilt trip if I want to go out for a night as she's always on about saving money. I also want to see more of the world but cannot because she wants to spend any of the few days she gets off at home.

I've a good job that pays well and I'm looking at saving for a deposit on a place . But she can't help in that regard because of the debt.

But here's the issue I have...We're seeing each other now for two years and are both in our 30's. She wants kids pretty lively and is worried about her age (33 which I don't think is exactly a granny but she thinks it is ) but there isn't a hope in hell I'm having kids until I have a roof for them and enough money to provide them a good life. And even if we did have kids now she'd stop working and we couldn't even afford her mortgage and the Rent then.

I have spoken to her about it and she just gets depressed and says that we will get by but it will be tough. I think she's not fully understanding the situation. I'm also all she has in Ireland too so I am worried about what a breakup could do to her.

I do truly Love her but am finding it difficult to see a future
Am I being unreasonable ? Is breaking up over money a horrible thing to do. I was aware of the debt when we started seeing each other but I guess I never thought that far down the line.

She has morgage on a property in her home country? So she is planning to move back?

Merkin

muppetkiller wrote: »

And even if we did have kids now she'd stop working and we couldn't even afford her mortgage and the Rent then.

So is she just planning on quitting work completely if you were to have children together?

muppetkiller

maria34 wrote: »

She has morgage on a property in her home country? So she is planning to move back?

No she has no plans to move back and couldn't afford to do so if she did.
The wages back home are way less than here and it's an apartment anyway she'd never live there she said. It was just a stupid investment at the time but she got caught up in the boom like many others.

maria34

muppetkiller wrote: »

No she has no plans to move back and couldn't afford to do so if she did.
The wages back home are way less than here and it's an apartment anyway she'd never live there she said. It was just a stupid investment at the time but she got caught up in the boom like many others.

So why cant see sell it? Or just stop paying it and let the bank having it if its bought during the boom ? She doesnt go back so why she cares?

muppetkiller

Merkin wrote: »

So is she just planning on quitting work completely if you were to have children together?

She would not get maternity leave from her place if she left as it's just a basic service industry role. Also she believes that it's not right to leave a child so soon after it being born to go back to work. And now that I think about it it's probably better financially if she didn't go back to work as childcare in this country would probably be more expensive.

Penny Tration

There are too many unanswered questions here.

She has a mortgage. So, is she planning to move home? If not, surely she could sell the place and use the money to pay off part or all of the mortgage?

Does she expect that if ye have children, you work and she stays at home? Would you be comfortable being the sole earner?

Penny Tration

muppetkiller wrote: »

She would not get maternity leave from her place if she left as it's just a basic service industry role. Also she believes that it's not right to leave a child so soon after it being born to go back to work. And now that I think about it it's probably better financially if she didn't go back to work as childcare in this country would probably be more expensive.

She will get maternity leave paid for by the government, and her job has to be kept open, as far as I know.

I dunno. Sounds as though she just wants you to provide for her.

Alf. A. Male

Why doesn she sell up back home if she doesn't intend to go back? If there's a future for the two of you she can start adding to what you're saving and you should see immediate benefit for your social life together. Am I missing something? Or are you not being told something?

muppetkiller

maria34 wrote: »

So why cant see sell it? Or just stop paying it and let the bank having it if its bought during the boom ? She doesnt go back so why she cares?

It currently worth significantly less than what she's owes to the bank and she would never walk away from the debt as her family I think guaranteed it with their family home.

maria34

muppetkiller wrote: »

It currently worth significantly less than what she's owes to the bank and she would never walk away from the debt as her family I think guaranteed it with their family home.

You think or it is so? Look you cant plan kids if you dont know everything! Talking and planning is the best option. What if you break up after the child is born? How would you feel if she goes back to that apartment and takes your kid with her?

muppetkiller

green_screen wrote: »

She will get maternity leave paid for by the government, and her job has to be kept open, as far as I know.

I dunno. Sounds as though she just wants you to provide for her.

No she definitely doesn't want me to provide for her lol she's as stubborn as a mule when it comes to money, She refuses any financial help from me too. I suggested that I'd help her pay the Mortgage and she flat out shot me down saying it was her purchase and she's going to deal with the consequences.

muppetkiller

maria34 wrote: »

You think or it is so? Look you cant plan kids if you dont know everything! Talking and planning is the best option. What if you break up after the child is born? How would you feel if she goes back to that apartment and takes your kid with her?

I know it is. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b44b72c8-47c0-11e3-b1c4-00144feabdc0.html

She's one of the ones affected by the swiss franc mortgages so it's dropped massively in value. Although there might be some hope in the courts in the future.

maria34

muppetkiller wrote: »

I know it is. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b44b72c8-47c0-11e3-b1c4-00144feabdc0.html

She's one of the ones affected by the swiss franc mortgages so it's dropped massively in value. Although there might be some hope in the courts in the future.

I meant that fact about the parents home.

Penny Tration

muppetkiller wrote: »

No she definitely doesn't want me to provide for her lol she's as stubborn as a mule when it comes to money, She refuses any financial help from me too. I suggested that I'd help her pay the Mortgage and she flat out shot me down saying it was her purchase and she's going to deal with the consequences.

So she refuses to let you help, even though it essentially means ye can't plan a future together?

You need to have a much more serious chat about where your relationship is actually going tbh.

Merkin

muppetkiller wrote: »

No she definitely doesn't want me to provide for her lol she's as stubborn as a mule when it comes to money, She refuses any financial help from me too. I suggested that I'd help her pay the Mortgage and she flat out shot me down saying it was her purchase and she's going to deal with the consequences.

I find this so odd. It just doesn't add up. She won't accept any help from you apparently and yet wants to quit work and have babies imminently? What is she planning to pay her mortgage with then? Magic beans?

Tokyo

From what you describe, at the moment is seems that you are both somewhat in different places - she's investing her money in property back home in order to secure her future, while you are looking towards saving for the deposit on a place together to secure your future together. And while there's nothing wrong with her wanting to be financially independent, it does seem somewhat at odds with her wanting a future and children together.

I think that you both need to sit down and have an honest conversation about your relationship, about your future together, and about the impact that all of this is having on your relationship. Right now it sounds like you bring up the issue for discussion, she feels bad about it all and says that you'll both struggle though, and then the issue gets dropped for a while because it's upsetting her. It's not solving anything and she doesn't have the bigger picture on how much this is wearing you down. While I applaud that she considers it her problem and that she's going to deal with the consequences, does she realise that the consequences might be your relationship failing?

Hopefully the result of that conversation will be that you both end up on the same page in terms of your future, and having debt hanging over your head from the outset. Perhaps she'd consider selling up if she knew that her future was solid here? Or renting the property out longterm if that would cover the mortgage. But you may find that you both aren't on the same page, in which case you have a decision to make about your future. But at least that decision will be made with both people knowing all the facts.

muppetkiller

Merkin wrote: »

I find this so odd. It just doesn't add up. She won't accept any help from you apparently and yet wants to quit work and have babies imminently? What is she planning to pay her mortgage with then? Magic beans?

Maybe I sold her short , She would love kids now but realizes we need to have a more stable situation for them. But I think realistically she does expect them in a probably 2-3 years time.My problem is I cannot see it getting better for us anytime soon.
She's on about getting a better job soon getting more money etc...But there's not a lot of Work options out there for her so I'm worried.

muppetkiller

mike_ie wrote: »

From what you describe, at the moment is seems that you are both somewhat in different places - she's investing her money in property back home in order to secure her future, while you are looking towards saving for the deposit on a place together to secure your future together. And while there's nothing wrong with her wanting to be financially independent, it does seem somewhat at odds with her wanting a future and children together.

I think that you both need to sit down and have an honest conversation about your relationship, about your future together, and about the impact that all of this is having on your relationship. Right now it sounds like you bring up the issue for discussion, she feels bad about it all and says that you'll both struggle though, and then the issue gets dropped for a while because it's upsetting her. It's not solving anything and she doesn't have the bigger picture on how much this is wearing you down. While I applaud that she considers it her problem and that she's going to deal with the consequences, does she realise that the consequences might be your relationship failing?

Hopefully the result of that conversation will be that you both end up on the same page in terms of your future, and having debt hanging over your head from the outset. Perhaps she'd consider selling up if she knew that her future was solid here? Or renting the property out longterm if that would cover the mortgage. But you may find that you both aren't on the same page, in which case you have a decision to make about your future. But at least that decision will be made with both people knowing all the facts.

Thanks Mike that's pretty much it in a nutshell I think.
She has exams coming up so I will leave it until they are over as she is a sensitive little soul and don't want to upset her/ distract her before then.

LegacyUser

It all feels a bit 'off' to me. Way I see it, there's two choices as to what's going on: she's not meeting reality about her debts v what she wants in life (kids fairly soon, wanting to be a stay at home mother), or the second picture, that she wants kids and wants you to provide for her (and her debt) & them.

I think you need to have a really serious talk and lay it all out, because at the moment it seems like neither of your approaches are realistic. If she genuinely wants to pay off her debts independently, and you don't want kids till you are financially stable - that sounds like it's 10 years off.

Are you sure she isn't posturing about not accepting money? To me, it seems like that's exactly what she wants - a provider.

muppetkiller

Could be wrong, but... wrote: »

It all feels a bit 'off' to me. Way I see it, there's two choices as to what's going on: she's not meeting reality about her debts v what she wants in life (kids fairly soon, wanting to be a stay at home mother), or the second picture, that she wants kids and wants you to provide for her (and her debt) & them.

I think you need to have a really serious talk and lay it all out, because at the moment it seems like neither of your approaches are realistic. If she genuinely wants to pay off her debts independently, and you don't want kids till you are financially stable - that sounds like it's 10 years off.

Are you sure she isn't posturing about not accepting money? To me, it seems like that's exactly what she wants - a provider.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I think you are right about her not meeting reality about her debts. I will speak to her when her exams are over and hopefully we can come to an agreement.

strandroad

Could be wrong, but... wrote: »

It all feels a bit 'off' to me. Way I see it, there's two choices as to what's going on: she's not meeting reality about her debts v what she wants in life (kids fairly soon, wanting to be a stay at home mother), or the second picture, that she wants kids and wants you to provide for her (and her debt) & them.

I think you need to have a really serious talk and lay it all out, because at the moment it seems like neither of your approaches are realistic. If she genuinely wants to pay off her debts independently, and you don't want kids till you are financially stable - that sounds like it's 10 years off.

Are you sure she isn't posturing about not accepting money? To me, it seems like that's exactly what she wants - a provider.

To me it reads like she does not accept his money as they are merely girlfriend/boyfriend now, but if they were to become a family unit, with children, possibly married, they would have to rethink their finances and budget together. There is no such commitment now though so she wants to pay her own way.

Looks like in her current job/childcare situation she would be better off staying at home so her desire to start a family is in conflict with her plans to pay off her debts.
Looks like she's also studying so I think that focusing hard on a better job for her within a year is the best option.
She doesn't have a lot of time with regard to childbearing plans though so they should really resolve the issue whether they want children and when, now.

dark crystal

Is the apartment she owns just sitting vacant or does she let it?

Lenmeister

muppetkiller wrote: »

We have little if any social life because of the finance issues. I'm very independent which she is not, so I get the guilt trip if I want to go out for a night as she's always on about saving money. I also want to see more of the world but cannot because she wants to spend any of the few days she gets off at home.

But here's the issue I have...We're seeing each other now for two years and are both in our 30's. She wants kids pretty lively and is worried about her age (33 which I don't think is exactly a granny but she thinks it is ) but there isn't a hope in hell I'm having kids until I have a roof for them and enough money to provide them a good life.

I have spoken to her about it and she just gets depressed and says that we will get by but it will be tough. I think she's not fully understanding the situation. I'm also all she has in Ireland too so I am worried about what a breakup could do to her.

I do truly Love her but am finding it difficult to see a future
Am I being unreasonable ? Is breaking up over money a horrible thing to do. I was aware of the debt when we started seeing each other but I guess I never thought that far down the line.

I think you're in very different places. There are so many things here that just simply don't work.

She cannot guilt trip you over what you do with your hard earned money.

What about what you want? Saying you can't see the world because she wants something else is crap. If I couldn't do what I truly wanted because the person I was with didn't want to I'd become quite unhappy. Your life might be shared in a way, but it is not hers.

She wants kids now and already has her own mortgage at home that she can barely pay for because she's earning minimum wage here. I think you should buy some of those magic beans Merkin was talking about as I can't see how else she's going to support a mortgage and kids with no income of her own.

I think you're right about her not understanding the situation, frankly I think she's in fairyland and is going to expect you to pay for all this. Saying it'll be tough but you'll get by is naive. Even if you can, what if you can't get your own place? What if she wants to move back home to the house she bought but you don't? (If she really doesn't want to move back home then she should sell that house asap as it's the main cause of strife) What kind of life will you have scraping by on what little money you have left after her mortgage, kids, car, bills etc.

I'm sorry to agree but I can't see a future either. She's not using you as a scapegoat in terms of money but it sure does seem that way when looking at it from certain angles. It's her own fault for getting into debt that she can't go out with you or see the world with you. She has no right to have a go at you for spending your own money. She created her own problems.

I think you're being unfair on both yourself and your partner by staying in a relationship where you don't see eye to eye. She wants kids, you don't. You want to see the world, she can't. She has massive debt and can't live a decent life. You can and want to but can't really because she makes you feel bad about it. Sorry man but I don't think this thing is going to work.

You need a serious talk with her, it's the only way you'll know what to do. Best of luck mate.

muppetkiller

dark crystal wrote: »

Is the apartment she owns just sitting vacant or does she let it?

It's rented but only gets about 150 a month for it...

muppetkiller

Lenmeister wrote: »

I think you're in very different places. There are so many things here that just simply don't work.

She cannot guilt trip you over what you do with your hard earned money.

What about what you want? Saying you can't see the world because she wants something else is crap. If I couldn't do what I truly wanted because the person I was with didn't want to I'd become quite unhappy. Your life might be shared in a way, but it is not hers.

She wants kids now and already has her own mortgage at home that she can barely pay for because she's earning minimum wage here. I think you should buy some of those magic beans Merkin was talking about as I can't see how else she's going to support a mortgage and kids with no income of her own.

I think you're right about her not understanding the situation, frankly I think she's in fairyland and is going to expect you to pay for all this. Saying it'll be tough but you'll get by is naive. Even if you can, what if you can't get your own place? What if she wants to move back home to the house she bought but you don't? (If she really doesn't want to move back home then she should sell that house asap as it's the main cause of strife) What kind of life will you have scraping by on what little money you have left after her mortgage, kids, car, bills etc.

I'm sorry to agree but I can't see a future either. She's not using you as a scapegoat in terms of money but it sure does seem that way when looking at it from certain angles. It's her own fault for getting into debt that she can't go out with you or see the world with you. She has no right to have a go at you for spending your own money. She created her own problems.

I think you're being unfair on both yourself and your partner by staying in a relationship where you don't see eye to eye. She wants kids, you don't. You want to see the world, she can't. She has massive debt and can't live a decent life. You can and want to but can't really because she makes you feel bad about it. Sorry man but I don't think this thing is going to work.

You need a serious talk with her, it's the only way you'll know what to do. Best of luck mate.

Thanks for this reply it does kind of sum it up. But I will say she would love to see the world and go away for weekends here and there but money prevents that. So if by some miracle she gets a much better job then things would change drastically. But there's not alot out there.

Oh and I'm desperate for kids too I just cannot see them in the next 2-3 years the way we are now.

bluemagpie

Are you sure you know the full story about her debts? If she has a mortgage of 30k you could ask her why does she want to pay it off in 10 years, it would be quite likely that a mortgage has a term of about 30 years given her age, and if so the rent of 150 per month should actually cover it and therefore would have little impact on her salary and your lives here. Sounds like you need to have a further chat and see if you are being given the full story.

strandroad

bluemagpie wrote: »

Are you sure you know the full story about her debts? If she has a mortgage of 30k you could ask her why does she want to pay it off in 10 years, it would be quite likely that a mortgage has a term of about 30 years given her age, and if so the rent of 150 per month should actually cover it and therefore would have little impact on her salary and your lives here. Sounds like you need to have a further chat and see if you are being given the full story.

She's in a different country, her interest rates may be much higher, especially if she's locked into a Swiss currency mortgage. They were attractive at first and then became quite a stone around people's necks.

Lucuma

muppetkiller wrote: »

Hi Folks,

But here's the issue I have...We're seeing each other now for two years and are both in our 30's. She wants kids pretty lively and is worried about her age (33 which I don't think is exactly a granny but she thinks it is )

She is right to be worried and to want to get started having kids. I'm the same age as your gf and when I went to get checked out last year turns out I have extremely low egg reserve (something you couldn't know unless you get the blood test) there's no reason for it, I have always had good health it just happens to some women that their peak fertility is in their 20s and in their 30s they really struggle to conceive (and this gets worse year on year). To be honest I wouldn't wait another year if I was your gf, with a woman's fertility decreasing year on year it's too much of a risk.

This is why i think ye have a serious issue to be honest. She does seem like a genuine person but she has been really silly about money and to make matters worse she isn't doing anything to improve her situation considering you said: She's doing a degree in a subject which have no real career prospects in this country but it's what she loves so who am I to tell her not to do it.

This seems really irresponsible behaviour to me. Up to your eyes in debt, wanting to start a family but actively pursuing a degree which has no career prospects? Surely if she wants to improve her lot she should be focusing her time into something which is going to help her to move up the ladder professionally and solve her issues?

You always have to be very very careful about considering to start a family with a woman who comes from a foreign country for obvious reasons, especially a country with no career prospects for you i.e. you are not going to move there. If this relationship falls apart she will want to be near her family, you've already said she has no ties or connections in this country apart from you. No matter how much ye are in love right now, that fact puts you in a very vulnerable position if ye do have a kid. If your relationship flounders for whatever reason and there's no career, relationship, base of friends, social life etc keeping her here it's obvious what she will choose to do.

So think long and hard about the future of this relationship and where it's going. You guys need to come up with a realistic road map.

I have to warn you that when women get to a certain age they can (quite understandably) panic and regardless of circumstances they will just want to get pregnant no matter what. Have baby first and think about how to make it work after. Unfortunately it seems you are in the typically male/provider role here where you are the one worrying about the future and setting things up whereas she is blindly going along just hoping things will work out, knowing she wants to have kids but that's it. So alot of the responsibility is on your shoulders.

strandroad

muppetkiller wrote: »

Thanks for this reply it does kind of sum it up. But I will say she would love to see the world and go away for weekends here and there but money prevents that. So if by some miracle she gets a much better job then things would change drastically. But there's not alot out there.

Oh and I'm desperate for kids too I just cannot see them in the next 2-3 years the way we are now.

I think that the real problem is that you are not on the same page with regard to family plans. I know a couple in a similar or worse situation (big mortgage on a negative equity flat, big loss of income) but they both wanted to settle down and start a family, it was their priority. And so they married, pooled their resources, had a child. One of them is working hard to support them, the other is at home and works part time. They don't have much of a social life bar an occasional bbq with friends, it's all work work work save save save. But they both wanted it so they knew they have to buckle down for a couple of years so that they pull through just as the child reaches school age and the big expenses start.

If you were sure she's the one and that's what you want you could do it too - it's what a lot of young couples do after all - but it comes at a cost and your commitment must be unwavering. She might be ready for it from what you're saying, but you still want more enjoyment in your life, which of course is fair enough - it's just that she a) can't afford to join you, b) can't afford to wait as she ages.

I'd say that if you see such a "buckle down for our family" plan with her in a short time frame (within a year), go for it. If you can't see it happening in the next couple of years, let her go.