Department advice on Nemantodirus

Conmaicne Mara

http://www.agriland.ie/news/department-issue-key-advice-sheep-farmers-worms/

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/news/department-issue-key-advice-sheep-farmers-worms/

They're in the lambs here alright, if they're over 5-6wks old now they're at risk, ordinary cheap white dose will treat as will all of the worm doses

eire23

rancher wrote: »

They're in the lambs here alright, if they're over 5-6wks old now they're at risk, ordinary cheap white dose will treat as will all of the worm doses

How often would you need to dose then rancher and at what age to they become immune to nemo?

Intend to use a yellow dose first here, then a white and clear this year as i have no resistance issues.
Think you mentioned before that you do your own fec count,if ya dont mind me asking is the testing gear expensive and is it hard to do?

rancher

eire23 wrote: »

How often would you need to dose then rancher and at what age to they become immune to nemo?

Intend to use a yellow dose first here, then a white and clear this year as i have no resistance issues.
Think you mentioned before that you do your own fec count,if ya dont mind me asking is the testing gear expensive and is it hard to do?

Fec testing kit is expensive, when we started it was over £1000 probably nearly 20 yrs ago so we put ours together ourselves, second hand microscope, graduated cylinder and slides.
Leaving cert science would probably work it or if you're able to use a microscope.
The old recommendation was dose at 5, 9, 14wks and probably still works, also recommended to use the same class of dose for the full year. we use the white dose for nemo because its cheapest and any dose kills nemo, and then use whichever dose is for that year the rest of the year.
Switching them through the year is probably alright too

eire23

Ah thats out the window so, have no experience of microscopes or a leaving cert:o
Fair play to ye for doing that yerselves , im sure it was very rare back then.
The fella that does my samples lives a half hour away from me and is 6 euro a sample and will email the results the next day which is a good service in fairness but it would be fierce handy if ya could do it yourself.

Green farmer

I'm taking ranchers advice from a few weeks ago and dosing mothers as their leaving the lambing sheds in an effort to reduce down worms passed from mother to lamb.

AnFeirmeoir

Green farmer wrote: »

I'm taking ranchers advice from a few weeks ago and dosing mothers as their leaving the lambing sheds in an effort to reduce down worms passed from mother to lamb.

I've done this this too this year.

MayoAreMagic

Rancher, are you sure about all worm doses killing them? I am nearly sure I read somewhere that the clear wormer isnt as effective. Plus, two years ago I used clear wormer exclusively for the year and lost 3 in quick succession that werent due a dose. Used a white wormer after and had no more issues.

tom_k

I have Albex 10% here, its a light blue in colour so I'm assuming that counts as a white drench.

Labelling says it's active against nematodirus amongst others so I'd hope that it'd suit for this.

Any input appreciated...

MayoAreMagic

I believe that is benzimidazole based tom_k so it is the same ingredient as a white wormer. That is a 2 in 1 fluke and worm dose isnt it?

tom_k

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I believe that is benzimidazole based tom_k so it is the same ingredient as a white wormer. That is a 2 in 1 fluke and worm dose isnt it?

That's right. Higher dosage rate per kg to combat fluke. Will be dosing with it tomorrow so. Thanks for that.

Green farmer

tom_k wrote: »

I have Albex 10% here, its a light blue in colour so I'm assuming that counts as a white drench.

Labelling says it's active against nematodirus amongst others so I'd hope that it'd suit for this.

Any input appreciated...

That's what I'm using and is working on drying up any with dirty ends. at about €30 a bottle won't break the bank and only has a 4 day withdrawal period

rancher

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Rancher, are you sure about all worm doses killing them? I am nearly sure I read somewhere that the clear wormer isnt as effective. Plus, two years ago I used clear wormer exclusively for the year and lost 3 in quick succession that werent due a dose. Used a white wormer after and had no more issues.

Cydectin is supposed to work for something like 6 weeks for worms but only 24hrs for nemo,
The mistake farmers make is that they dose now with cydectin and think they're covered for 6wk, then theres another nemo hatch ten days after dosing and lambs are dying within the six weeks of the first dose...which they will do in an intensive situation.
Hope I've explained it alright.
Cheap white dose will kill nemos but theres more and more farms find their worms are resistant to the white dose so I don't like telling guys to go out especially and buy white dose if they only have a few sheep when anything will kill the nemos.
We do FEC counts for producer group and discussion group and every year one farmer gets caught out depending on Cydectin for 6 wks for nemos so you're not the only one

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

then theres another nemo hatch ten days after dosing and lambs are dying

That is the part that I find hard to get my head around. So my first lamb was born March 21, so say I'll dose him at five or six weeks of age with a cheap white or yellow drench just to do for Nemo. When can that lamb be affected by Nemo again? And what does the farmer do then, surely can't be dosing them every week.

Green farmer

rancher wrote: »

Cheap white dose will kill nemos but theres more and more farms find their worms are resistant to the white dose so I don't like telling guys to go out especially and buy white dose if they only have a few sheep when anything will kill the nemos.

So assuming you don't have any resistance issues will the white dose keep nemos away for long ? I'm white dosing at the moment and was going to follow that along with yellow dose later in season and finished with clear dose at the end of year if needed . ?

MayoAreMagic

I suppose con, the idea is not to put them out in infected pastures afterwards, so they wont be picking up the infection again.

Fair play rancher. That has cleared it up. I was stunned at how quick they went down with it.

rancher

Green farmer wrote: »

rancher wrote: »

Cheap white dose will kill nemos but theres more and more farms find their worms are resistant to the white dose so I don't like telling guys to go out especially and buy white dose if they only have a few sheep when anything will kill the nemos.

So assuming you don't have any resistance issues will the white dose keep nemos away for long ? I'm white dosing at the moment and was going to follow that along with yellow dose later in season and finished with clear dose at the end of year if needed . ?

White dose only kills the nemos that are there, no residual effect, same as all the doses..... don't know about the ones that are P.O.

Green farmer

Thanks rancher,
At times it seems like we spend all our time fighting internal and external parasites with sheep . Worms, foxes and blowfly

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

That is the part that I find hard to get my head around. So my first lamb was born March 21, so say I'll dose him at five or six weeks of age with a cheap white or yellow drench just to do for Nemo. When can that lamb be affected by Nemo again? And what does the farmer do then, surely can't be dosing them every week.

Exactly why we started FECs, try the 5wk 9wk and 14wk dose regime, it worked here in the old days....like the ewe with the big teat, you can only do what's practical and try to do a FEC before and after the 14 wk one and you'll have everything covered

J.O. Farmer

rancher wrote: »

Fec testing kit is expensive, when we started it was over £1000 probably nearly 20 yrs ago so we put ours together ourselves, second hand microscope, graduated cylinder and slides.
Leaving cert science would probably work it or if you're able to use a microscope.
The old recommendation was dose at 5, 9, 14wks and probably still works, also recommended to use the same class of dose for the full year. we use the white dose for nemo because its cheapest and any dose kills nemo, and then use whichever dose is for that year the rest of the year.
Switching them through the year is probably alright too

It's straight forward enough to use the microscope once you've been shown but is it not a very time consuming job to carry out an FEC.

AnFeirmeoir

Says they're at risk when they start eating grass at 5 weeks . My lambs are eating grass long before then. !

rangler1

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

It's straight forward enough to use the microscope once you've been shown but is it not a very time consuming job to carry out an FEC.

Doesn't take very long to do the test, you can do it while you're checking the sheep
We do a mob test here, get the dogs around the sheep and push them into a corner, we get a good few samples even while we're rounding them up especially if the lambs are lying down when we start, we pick up a marble sized sample from 10% of the lambs in the bunch, you'd get it in 20 mins or less. if the bunch was less than 100, we'd take 10 samples.
Takes about half hour to do the test after,
That's all we ask the farmers that come here to do as well, we're not licensed to do the STAP tests

Conmaicne Mara

rangler1 wrote: »

Doesn't take very long to do the test, you can do it while you're checking the sheep
We do a mob test here, get the dogs around the sheep and push them into a corner, we get a good few samples even while we're rounding them up especially if the lambs are lying down when we start, we pick up a marble sized sample from 10% of the lambs in the bunch, you'd get it in 20 mins or less. if the bunch was less than 100, we'd take 10 samples.
Takes about half hour to do the test after,
That's all we ask the farmers that come here to do as well, we're not licensed to do the STAP tests

That reminds me of the talk in Athenry last June. A lot of muttering from some farmers after that stand, I think it was Tom Coll(?) suggested taking fresh dung from the field as lambs would dung if ya got them up from resting. Penning them all up was the only answer!

jt65

dosed & moved all the lambs on the out farm to day, ( got a lovely suntan)

pulled out some heavier ones which will go in second next draft (2weeks)

bolused for cobalt and copper as well , had noticed a brownish tinge starting to appear & 1 or 2 had scaly ears (which may or may not be from the sun)

Username John

jt65 wrote: »

dosed & moved all the lambs on the out farm to day, ( got a lovely suntan)

pulled out some heavier ones which will go in second next draft (2weeks)

bolused for cobalt and copper as well , had noticed a brownish tinge starting to appear & 1 or 2 had scaly ears (which may or may not be from the sun)

You bloused the ewes I assume, not the lambs?

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

You bloused the ewes I assume, not the lambs?

We bolus here at ten weeks, its working nicely then to counteract the check of weaning. The pre lambing bolus should be coming in the milk to the lambs up till then

jt65

Username John wrote: »

You bloused the ewes I assume, not the lambs?

vica versa

Conmaicne Mara

Would nemo be in a 20 day old single lamb? Noticed one a bit dirty behind, and passed some mucus while I was there. Didn't appear ill in any other way.

There's probably nothing in it.

rangler1

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Would nemo be in a 20 day old single lamb? Noticed one a bit dirty behind, and passed some mucus while I was there. Didn't appear ill in any other way.

There's probably nothing in it.

he's too young and the fact that he's a single, he won't be eating much grass either

Conmaicne Mara

rangler1 wrote: »

he's too young and the fact that he's a single, he won't be eating much grass either

Yeah his age is in favour, was reading about twins eating grass earlier than singles alright. I will keep an eye on him.