multilayer pipe snd crimp fittings

kerryplumber

Hi there,
First time poster, been browsing with ages. Looking for advice on the above from people in the know. Contemplating using it for the first time but unsure whether its worth the investment or not. Would it work out much more expensive than using copper and pex. Which brands and suppliers are best. Are fittings compatible with different pipe brands. All info and advice greatly appreciated,

richieburke01

I use this pipe for the last 2 years now with no problems what soever
It does cost a bit to tool up for this but it`s well worth it
I think it`s costs the same as cooper but it depends on where you purchase from
I have REMS gears it`s expensive but good
I don`t deal with certain pex pipes any-more (PROBLEMS)

shane 007

Pipe is cheaper than copper but dearer than Pex. Fittings a lot dearer than brass.
I've used Tiemme & Heatmerchants but I find Tiemme to be better fittings.
I also use the Remms tool. I paid €750 + vat for the tool which included 16mm, 20mm & 26mm jaws.
You need to size up on all pipework though as fittings are very restrictive so I would class 26mm as 3/4", use 20mm to tail down to serve 2 rads & 16mm to 1 one rad.
If you need 1", then use 32mm.

Really good system.

richieburke01

I agreed great system
Try aquatech for prices
They have a very big stock of fitting
The way i look at this is not every installer has this equipment to put pipes and fitting together :-)

kerryplumber

I too was looking at the rems mini press, a lot of money to lay out on gear. Would the 16 , 20 , 26 , and 32 tongs be enough for a domestic situation. I've seen the 16 fitting and yes seems very restrictive, although the supplier says that the local lads are using 16 to replace half inch. Its the cost of fittings that's putting me off. Supplier reckons I would be using less with multilayer but I don't see how? Anybody use APE multilayer pipe and crimp fittings, that what I'm being quoted for.

THEPLUMBERJOE

I started using multilayer in 2006...Its a brilliant system. It needs to be used as a manifold type system. No joints under floor = no problems ever. Manufacturers of pipe and fittings do not recommend using joints in concrete floors.
Its possible to use with very few tools but if you tool up for it, buy a crimper, just be careful about which crimping pattern jaws that you buy because you may be limited to just one or two suppliers. The most common and easiest to obtain fittings are TH profile. U profile is common in some areas. The crimp profile determines which size of pipe you use too, as different manufacturers have different wall thickness etc. 16X2mm, 20X2mm ,26X3mm and 32X3mm are the sizes to use with TH profile. Even though the internal diameter is smaller the equivalent sizes in copper, because the pipe is smoother inside and because in general less fittings are used, 16mm will replace I/2" copper, 26mm replaces 3/4" copper and 32mm replaces 1" copper. 20mm is a replacement for 18mm copper which is popular on the continent but not in Ireland.
Buy a bender too, and you can bend the bigger pipe just like copper. A really good cutter and a good reamer is very important, without these you will damage the O rings and have leaks, some of these may not become evident for a long time.

shane 007

THEPLUMBERJOE wrote: »

I started using multilayer in 2006...Its a brilliant system. It needs to be used as a manifold type system. No joints under floor = no problems ever. Manufacturers of pipe and fittings do not recommend using joints in concrete floors.
Its possible to use with very few tools but if you tool up for it, buy a crimper, just be careful about which crimping pattern jaws that you buy because you may be limited to just one or two suppliers. The most common and easiest to obtain fittings are TH profile. U profile is common in some areas. The crimp profile determines which size of pipe you use too, as different manufacturers have different wall thickness etc. 16X2mm, 20X2mm ,26X3mm and 32X3mm are the sizes to use with TH profile. Even though the internal diameter is smaller the equivalent sizes in copper, because the pipe is smoother inside and because in general less fittings are used, 16mm will replace I/2" copper, 26mm replaces 3/4" copper and 32mm replaces 1" copper. 20mm is a replacement for 18mm copper which is popular on the continent but not in Ireland.
Buy a bender too, and you can bend the bigger pipe just like copper. A really good cutter and a good reamer is very important, without these you will damage the O rings and have leaks, some of these may not become evident for a long time.

Thanks, some useful information there. I started using it last year, have the Remms crimper & have a reamer. I don't have a bender as yet but that will be my next purchase.
Why do you say you have to use only a manifold system, if the pipe & fittings are properly protected like copper is, what is the issue? Also in most retrofits, many manifold systems just would not suit.

What's the difference between the U & TH profiles?

THEPLUMBERJOE

Different manufacturers use different profile crimping profiles, probably for product protection. If you have the tools for their system you are likely to stay with them rather than invest in new tools if you want to change. You should take a look at rems website and you will be amazed by the number of profiles there actually is!

Also there are a awful lot of different pipe sizes/thickness's/ such as 14x2mm/16x2mm/16x2.5mm/16x2.25mm/17x2mm/18x2mm/18x2.5mm/20x2mm/20x2.5/20x2.25/25x2.5mm/26x3mm.............I have seen them all. No problem when you use the stuff......but in future if you go to an older installation to make some changes you will be taking a chance when you cut the pipe, you may not be able to source a fitting for it easily!

There is also a lot of difference's in the actual pipe, it can be Pex or Pert or other types of plastic. Sometimes the inner layer is Pert or Pex and the outer layer is Mdpe or similar The Pex is the best for a lot of reasons to do with temp/pressure etc. Then you have type A,B, or C....which refers to the way the Pex is produced. Then there is the aluminium layer, this can be of different alloys and thickness, and can be over lapped with no weld, over lapped with weld, or butt welded. Laser butt welded is best and takes more abuse while bending etc. If you want to examine the aluminium layer in the pipe you are using, just burn some waste in a small fire and you will be able see which type it is.

There are differences in the fittings too, most have a plastic washer to prevent electrolytic action from corroding the fitting due to the aluminium layer being in contact with the brass, but there are some in the market that do not have this. The crimp sleeve is stainless steel in most cases, but I have seen some with steel sleeves....these would corrode in some situations, even under floors on heating circuits due to condensation when the water cools.

And you have the choice of brass or PPSU plastic fittings.......I prefer the brass for strength, especially at higher temps.

I agree about retrofits but nevertheless, you will find that the manufacturers data does not recommend burying fittings in concrete, the sellers here would say its fine, but if you had an insurance claim in the future it could lead to a sticky situation. The O rings create the seal, not the actual crimp. The crimp is only to keep the pipe in place. It is possible to break one O ring during installation, usually by failure to cut/ream properly. This joint might not leak under pressure test, but could start to leak up to a year later. In have seen this to happen. Actually I have seen fittings that were not pressed at all and they didn't leak either!

JohnnieK

I've been using the Tiemme stuff for quite some time now too, and I am very happy.

I also love the way you can marry it up to existing brass compression fittings.

I too have only used it on a manifold system with the pre insulated pipe.

shane 007

I've used both Tiemme & HM, but I much prefer the Tiemme.

DragonPlumbing

For guys who start use press systems.
Always remember to use pipe and fittings from one manufacturer "brand"
If you mix fittings or pipes you can have problems and manufacturer will not accept this.
Read always terms & conditions and this is standard for all professional brands.

I use multilayer pipes from 10 years and I tried many systems.
The cheap one will give you problems as qualpex etc.

Finally I use from 6 years system KAN-therm and I don't change this for nothing.

This system is expensive but all very good quality press systems are expensive.

Fittings are plastic PPSU and you can use both types of jaws TH or U.
This plastic is stronger than metal we test this by hammer ) still no leak
The fittings are designed to push in to the pipe without pipe calibration etc. this allow to work faster.

Underfloor heating they have cheapest on the market and very good quality and easy to fit.

I have this system from MOD: PM for details

I got special training from them and now I am authorized installer from KAN.
I have support from them and every job has certificate for 10 years warranty!

Good luck guys!

JohnnieK

This wouldn't be a sales pitch would it?
It's just that every manufacturer I've come across boasts the same.

DragonPlumbing

I just shearing my experience

darrencannon

Hi

Total novice here:

I bought a length of multilayer insulated 20mm pipe to run water underground. I neglected to think about the crimping.

Are there any other ways of adding fittings without crimping to this type of pipe do you know? Or know if anyone who's rent me one for an hour?

Darren

Dtp1979

darrencannon wrote: »

Hi

Total novice here:

I bought a length of multilayer insulated 20mm pipe to run water underground. I neglected to think about the crimping.

Are there any other ways of adding fittings without crimping to this type of pipe do you know? Or know if anyone who's rent me one for an hour?

Darren

Yes you can get adapters for the pipe to use on standard compression. Just ask the merchant where you bought the pipe

darrencannon

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes you can get adapters for the pipe to use on standard compression. Just ask the merchant where you bought the pipe

Nice one, thanks ðŸ‘

Dtp1979

darrencannon wrote: »

Nice one, thanks ðŸ‘

You'd be better off changing the lox to pex. In ten years time if you've to join on to the pipe your not gonna know which brand it is or what fittings as each pipe only uses its own fittings. Unlike pex which has universal fittings

anthonyos

anybody start using the qualpex crimp fittings yet

Dtp1979

anthonyos wrote: »

anybody start using the qualpex crimp fittings yet

Are those the plastic ones? They look very weak

anthonyos

ye there called butelite they have been around for years in other countries .I got a free set of crimper from qualpex so I might start using them

roy rodgers

I see tectite have copper crimp fittings out now. Look the part in fairness.. wouldn't look out of place in a hot press

K.Flyer

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Are those the plastic ones? They look very weak

I was looking at them as well, looked very fragile, not sure if I would trust them much, seeing as I don't trust ordinary push fit on pex anyway.

anthonyos

K.Flyer wrote: »

I was looking at them as well, looked very fragile, not sure if I would trust them much, seeing as I don't trust ordinary push fit on pex anyway.

What do you use generally

K.Flyer

Depends, copper and capillary fittings generally, multi-layer on concealed sections of heating circuits and if I am using pex for any reason it will be with instantor fittings.

exotic123

Hi all

I'm just wondering going to use multi layer first time and getting tool up for multi layer just need an advise does everyone like different shops have different kind of jaws and fittings I mean every brand?