Am I right to look for an apology

LegacyUser

Basically my dad had an affair with a much younger woman many years ago. He eventually walked out on my mother 2 days after Christmas when I was 8 years old. My mother then started to crumble. Her dad died a few months earlier and then her husband walked out. Within a few months my dad forced her to sell the family home and move to a much smaller place. we as kids didn't really understand what was going on, but knew something had happened. Then about 8 months after my dad left my grandmother died. My mother was totally devastated and developed a pretty bad dependence on alcohol.

Even though my mother was an alcoholic she knew she wasn't taking care of us correctly, so she sent us to live witgh my father and his new woman. This all happened about 28 years ago and a lot of very bad things happened in between then and now. Tbh I look back at all those events and am amazed that myself and my brother and sister survived so well. We are all very well educated (we all have Masters and are company directors), have beautiful families and cherish all our children. But I seem to have a very deep rooted chip on my shoulder towards what is my now step mother. Tbh she has been my mother figure for a lot longer than my own mother ever was, yet I still feel she was the sole reason for what happened to our family.

As a father of three children myself now, I'm glad I went through the whole situation so that I know what never to put my own kids through (even though I adore my wife and Id never cheat).

But Iv recently found myself asking the question should I ask this woman for an apology for what she did to our family nearly 28 years ago?

I know it was a long time ago and we were very young, but I can still recall the day my dad walked out like it was yesterday. This woman knew what she was doing...she knew the man she was having an affair with was married with kids...yet she carried on!! Am I right to be angry? Am I right that I seek an apology from this woman after so long?

3DataModem

I find it bizarre you blame her, and not your father. He made the vows and fathered the kids. She took in another man's kids!

sam34

squawkinock wrote: »

Iv recently found myself asking the question should I ask this woman for an apology for what she did to our family nearly 28 years ago?

I know it was a long time ago and we were very young, but I can still recall the day my dad walked out like it was yesterday. This woman knew what she was doing...she knew the man she was having an affair with was married with kids...yet she carried on!! Am I right to be angry? Am I right that I seek an apology from this woman after so long?

Are you angry with your father? He presumably was aware he had a wife and children yet he carried on with the affair and left his family.

Are you angry with your mother for turning to alcohol when she had young children to look after? While she undoubtedly had a hard time, she could have chosen to deal with it in a healthier fashion.

Why is your anger directed at the one person in this saga who actually had no responsibility towards you?

Big Bag of Chips

Life is rarely black and white. What you described was a very complex set of happenings. Your dad left your mam. Both her parents died around the same time. She turned to alcohol. Your life wasn't exactly as either of your parents planned for you...

And this woman played a role in some of that.

The relationship between your parents wasn't good to begin with. If it was then your dad wouldn't have cheated. And if he hadn't left your mam for this woman it would have been a different woman, or a different reason. Their marriage wasn't going to last.

Your grandparents died around the same time. That is nobody's fault. Your mam couldn't cope with everything and turned to alcohol. That is nobody else's fault. I'm not saying I blame her for turning to alcohol. But you can't blame anyone else for her turning to alcohol.

Your childhood wasn't great. But your life has turned out alright. Maybe you need to talk it all through with a counsellor, or maybe going to Al-Anon would help you come to terms with some of your past.

But to answer your question, no.. I don't think you should ask for an apology from this woman. She was just one link in a very long chain.

HotHHead

I understand you feeling some anger towards her, but your father was the married man with children, it was HIS action that led you all dow a different path..

Tigger99

I thought after reading your post you meant, should you apologise to your step mother? Answer is yes by the way.

My god you are unreal. You have no idea what happened between your Mam and Dad. Maybe the marriage was in trouble for years before that woman came along, you were only a child after all. Maybe your Mam was already an alcoholic and hid it well until the breakup. Maybe not, but my point is you just don't know.

This woman took you and your siblings in, obviously treated you well if you saw her as a mother figure. If you are still angry with her, no doubt she picked up on this over the years. She sounds like a bloody saint.

Go, buy her the biggest bunch of flowers you can find, and thank her for taking you in. Then go speak to a counsellor about what obviously was a painful period in your life, and maybe talk to your Dad if appropriate.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the replies. This is why I am posting the question, that I need the alternative point of view.
Then should I seek an apology from my dad? Should the children of broken marriages as the result of an affair be entitled to an apology? I suppose I am thinking this way since becoming a parent myself.

My mother has apologised many times for what she did, even though I never blamed her for anything.

HotHHead

Do you want an apology from your dad, what will an appology achieve? how will an appology make you feel?

LegacyUser

I am also "the other woman".

My partner left his wife fifteen years ago. She was an alcoholic with no interest in seeking help for her problems. She also was having an affair with another alcoholic.
She was abusive towards my partner (her husband) and treated him terribly. I saw what she was like first hand.

My partner's family, the wife's family and all their friends told him their sympathies lay with HIM, not her. They said they didn't blame him for wanting to leave his marriage.
He had tried everything to make it work but it wasn't working.
He then left the marriage and we started a relationship.

He has a son from the marriage who, from day one, has never liked me. He point blank refuses to speak to me and seems to blame me for everything.
I've done nothing wrong.
I fell in love with a man, albeit a married one, but it wasn't all black and white as "woman takes husband away from poor wife", because nothing is as simple as that.
I wasn't the married one. I never forced my partner to leave his wife.

I was not malicious or vindictive and I never wanted anyone to be hurt.
To this day, my partner's son doesn't speak to me and although it doesn't bother me, it bothers my partner as I am left out of family get-togethers.
It makes no difference to me but I did think, after fifteen years, he would have grown up a bit by now.
He's now in his late thirties and has a wife and child.
I don't think he'll ever grow up.

I don't think your stepmother owes ANYONE an apology. She did absolutely nothing wrong.
The problems in your parents' marriage were their problems. Anyone outside that is not relevant and you are being spiteful and bitter to expect this woman to be apologetic.

Marriages break up. Deal with it. People have to move on and get on with their lives. Meet other people. I don't get this mentality where attention-seeking children of broken marriages don't think their parents should move on and meet someone new.
I would hate to think my parents stayed together because of how we, as children, might react to them meeting a new partner.
It stinks of pettiness and frankly, immaturity.

Big Bag of Chips

You could sit down with your dad and have an adult discussion with him now. He may or may not apologise. He may feel like he did nothing wrong, or that he did what he thought was best at the time.

As already mentioned, you were a child, so you can't know the finer points of your parents' relationship.

Our parents are only human and as humans they make mistakes. I will try to always do my best for my children, and I can't envisage a time where I will not put their needs ahead of my own. But, I have no idea what the future holds. I don't intend on doing anything that could hurt them. But I can't promise that I won't.

I'm sure your mam or dad never planned for their marriage to end. They didn't set out to hurt you. But if their marriage was unhappy they were right to separate. Otherwise your post could be "should I ask my parents for an apology for staying together in a miserable marriage, and making our childhood miserable?"

LegacyUser

Tigger99 wrote: »

I thought after reading your post you meant, should you apologise to your step mother? Answer is yes by the way.

My god you are unreal. You have no idea what happened between your Mam and Dad. Maybe the marriage was in trouble for years before that woman came along, you were only a child after all. Maybe your Mam was already an alcoholic and hid it well until the breakup. Maybe not, but my point is you just don't know.

This woman took you and your siblings in, obviously treated you well if you saw her as a mother figure. If you are still angry with her, no doubt she picked up on this over the years. She sounds like a bloody saint.

Go, buy her the biggest bunch of flowers you can find, and thank her for taking you in. Then go speak to a counsellor about what obviously was a painful period in your life, and maybe talk to your Dad if appropriate.

Imagine the scenario; Your father dies..then you find out your husband has been having an affair..then your forced to sell the home...and then your mother dies and all in the space of 12 months. How would you feel?
Children are some of the most innocent members of society and don't deserve to suffer the consequences of adult behaviour. Ill admit I probably discount the responsibility my father bares in this scenario, but it takes two to tango.
You say I should thank her for taking us in!!...Taking us in was a "sunk cost" to borrow a phrase from business, for being with my dad. She didn't do it because she wanted to...she did it because she had no choice and the resentment of that has been evident throughout.

If you were carrying on with a married man with three children..would you not for a second think through the consequences of your actions?

LegacyUser

SimilarSituation wrote: »

I am also "the other woman".

My partner left his wife fifteen years ago. She was an alcoholic with no interest in seeking help for her problems. She also was having an affair with another alcoholic.
She was abusive towards my partner (her husband) and treated him terribly. I saw what she was like first hand.

My partner's family, the wife's family and all their friends told him their sympathies lay with HIM, not her. They said they didn't blame him for wanting to leave his marriage.
He had tried everything to make it work but it wasn't working.
He then left the marriage and we started a relationship.

He has a son from the marriage who, from day one, has never liked me. He point blank refuses to speak to me and seems to blame me for everything.
I've done nothing wrong.
I fell in love with a man, albeit a married one, but it wasn't all black and white as "woman takes husband away from poor wife", because nothing is as simple as that.
I wasn't the married one. I never forced my partner to leave his wife.

I was not malicious or vindictive and I never wanted anyone to be hurt.
To this day, my partner's son doesn't speak to me and although it doesn't bother me, it bothers my partner as I am left out of family get-togethers.
It makes no difference to me but I did think, after fifteen years, he would have grown up a bit by now.
He's now in his late thirties and has a wife and child.
I don't think he'll ever grow up.

I don't think your stepmother owes ANYONE an apology. She did absolutely nothing wrong.
The problems in your parents' marriage were their problems. Anyone outside that is not relevant and you are being spiteful and bitter to expect this woman to be apologetic.

Marriages break up. Deal with it. People have to move on and get on with their lives. Meet other people. I don't get this mentality where attention-seeking children of broken marriages don't think their parents should move on and meet someone new.
I would hate to think my parents stayed together because of how we, as children, might react to them meeting a new partner.
It stinks of pettiness and frankly, immaturity.

In many areas of business, engineering and biology we consider a concept called systems thinking. Systems (in this case families) do not exist in isolation, they interact within a complex weave of inter-relationships that enact a cascade of cause and effect.

You can not absolve yourself from responsibility by claiming the effects of love being the eliminator, systems theory (analytically proven) demonstrates that empirically.

Have you ever asked your partners son why he doesn't speak with you? Have you ever acknowledged your own role in his parents breakup?

ivytwine

OP I had a similar issue when I was growing up- thankfully my mother never developed any dependence on anything and she was there for me... I was very lucky.

Without going into too much detail there were affairs all over the place My dad left for another woman. My parents were very ill-suited. They get on grand now after 24 years apart.

The woman dad went off with is a lovely person. She too, could have basically decided that I wasn't worth her time and energy, but I stayed with them regularly down the years. When I was over at my dad's, she (and him) fed me, clothed me, was a second mother. I remember her patching up my knee when I absolutely banjaxed it running around the village and minding me while I bawled.

There was no resentment between her and my mother. My mother had no interest in having my father back, and she'd moved on with her life.

The way I look at it is. I didn't have the picture perfect childhood. It doesn't sound anywhere as bad as what you experienced but there were a few dark times nonetheless- probably the knock-on effect of my mother being broke as a single parent was the worst thing, and unfortunately that has made me a bit mercenary, but maybe I'd be like that anyway (I do like the finer things in life :pac:) But, nobody has a picture perfect childhood- I'm sorry, they don't exist. The only person I know with that was my own mother- even then there were clashes with my grandmother and then my grandad died when she was 16 and bam- the idyll was over. Some people with the seemingly perfect scenario have it far worse than I ever had it- a guy I once knew from a wealthy family, lovely people- his mother was completely indifferent to him.

My parents and step-parents and various hangers-on all did their best by me. Your stepmother did her best- she may have done wrong by being with your father in the first place, but his wrong was greater. I always wonder why the woman gets the more stick in this scenario, your dad is an individual with free will.

Maybe she did it out of resentment, or to keep your dad. But it's still a hell of a task. Do you not think she could have walked away? Do you not think there were times she was tested? Do you not think that sometimes there were times where she knew you couldn't stand her? I remember how my dad would do anything for his girlfriend's kids. One of them threw everything back in his face. It hurt my dad deeply. Maybe that person is saying the same about my dad that you are saying about your stepmum?

Things, especially in families, are never black and white. I think you need to realise that the parties here were weak and were doing what they thought best at the time and judge them accordingly.

EDIT: I would like to add that my dad's partner's ex walked out on them- Christmas time too funnily enough So I think that hurt dad even more- he wasn't stealing their mother away from their dad or anything like that.)

Tramps Like Us

In fairness the "other woman" is not blameless for this, having a relationship with a married man is beneath contempt.... but your dad is at fault also, maybe even more so... tbh OP it seems like having your own kids has made it really hit home how bad the adults involved, all three of them, treated you and you cant imagine doing that to your own kids so this has made you angry about it all again

I'd let it lie, what good will an apology do? Just try to be a better person than the adults who were involved in your upbringing. It depends on your relationship with your dad, if it can withstand serious conversations you could ask him, from the now shared POV of being fathers, why he did what he did. But I think you know the answer already

December2012

Before you go looking for an apology from anybody, you have to know what really was happening.

If you want to take thus further, then calmly ask your dad to talk to you about why the marriage broke down.

If you don't feel that you can take thus step, then you're not ready yet to ask your stepmother her side of the story.

ivytwine

December2012 wrote: »

Before you go looking for an apology from anybody, you have to know what really was happening.

If you want to take thus further, then calmly ask your dad to talk to you about why the marriage broke down.

If you don't feel that you can take thus step, then you're not ready yet to ask your stepmother her side of the story.

December2012 is right there. I was 22 before I asked Dad his side of the story. Some of what he told me shocked me to be honest. I made the decision to let it go- it wasn't easy but I felt that the past was the past and no good could ever come of raking it up with anyone. You may not feel the same, but if you talk to your dad, be prepared for some possible skeletons.

Czarcasm

OP I'm not going to go into too much detail or analysis here, but you need to let the bitterness and resentment go, for your own sake first of all, and secondly for your own children's sake so the bitterness and resentment isn't carried into a third generation.

LegacyUser

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

In fairness the "other woman" is not blameless for this, having a relationship with a married man is beneath contempt.... but your dad is at fault also, maybe even more so... tbh OP it seems like having your own kids has made it really hit home how bad the adults involved, all three of them, treated you and you cant imagine doing that to your own kids so this has made you angry about it all again

I'd let it lie, what good will an apology do? Just try to be a better person than the adults who were involved in your upbringing. It depends on your relationship with your dad, if it can withstand serious conversations you could ask him, from the now shared POV of being fathers, why he did what he did. But I think you know the answer already

I think your right Tramps. Since Ive had my own children I've realised just how low the actions of my dad and his other half were.

I do have a severe chip on my shoulder and I think if someone apologised to me I would feel a certain amount of relief.
It wasn't my fault that I now have to explain to my kids why they have 3 grandmothers
and why my dad doesn't live with their grandmother( my eldest is 8 and now asking these questions).

LegacyUser

SimilarSituation wrote: »

I am also "the other woman".

My partner left his wife fifteen years ago. She was an alcoholic with no interest in seeking help for her problems. She also was having an affair with another alcoholic.
She was abusive towards my partner (her husband) and treated him terribly. I saw what she was like first hand.

My partner's family, the wife's family and all their friends told him their sympathies lay with HIM, not her. They said they didn't blame him for wanting to leave his marriage.
He had tried everything to make it work but it wasn't working.
He then left the marriage and we started a relationship.

He has a son from the marriage who, from day one, has never liked me. He point blank refuses to speak to me and seems to blame me for everything.
I've done nothing wrong.
I fell in love with a man, albeit a married one, but it wasn't all black and white as "woman takes husband away from poor wife", because nothing is as simple as that.
I wasn't the married one. I never forced my partner to leave his wife.

I was not malicious or vindictive and I never wanted anyone to be hurt.
To this day, my partner's son doesn't speak to me and although it doesn't bother me, it bothers my partner as I am left out of family get-togethers.
It makes no difference to me but I did think, after fifteen years, he would have grown up a bit by now.
He's now in his late thirties and has a wife and child.
I don't think he'll ever grow up.

I don't think your stepmother owes ANYONE an apology. She did absolutely nothing wrong.
The problems in your parents' marriage were their problems. Anyone outside that is not relevant and you are being spiteful and bitter to expect this woman to be apologetic.

Marriages break up. Deal with it. People have to move on and get on with their lives. Meet other people. I don't get this mentality where attention-seeking children of broken marriages don't think their parents should move on and meet someone new.
I would hate to think my parents stayed together because of how we, as children, might react to them meeting a new partner.
It stinks of pettiness and frankly, immaturity.

I've read your post a few times, yet all I see is your subjective rational as an excuse for a knowingly and premeditated decision to get together with a married man with children.
As a married man, whose marriage far outlasted that of his parents, I know too well the stresses involved, yet I always make decisions that are best for my kids and wife.

As adults we are granted the privilege of independence of action...we can do what ever we please. we can vote..buy property..smoke and drink and get married, but with that privilege comes responsibility.

ABajaninCork

Your children have TWO grandmothers. The stepmother is not the third. Why do you allow your children to call her 'Nan'?

What happened to you isn't nice. It also isn't unusual, sad to say. I've been in the same boat. But for the sake of your sanity, you need to let it go. What happened within your parent's marriage isn't your business, and isn't your fault. What happens with you and your children is. You seem to be consumed with bitterness and anger and that really ain't healthy. Trust me - I've been there. They are wasted emotions. What do you feel you need an apology for and from whom? I hope you mean your parents AND NOT the woman who effectively brought you up. What do you think such an apology will acheive?

Let's say you get your apology - for what it's worth. What then? Will that make you feel any better? NO!! Will it wipe out the memories of what happened? NO!! Will it turn back the clock? NO!!



I think some counselling could really help you here.

Time Now Please

What part does your natural mother play in your life today? do you still have a relationship with your dad?

ABajaninCork

I also wouldn't be telling your kids all the gory details as to why his Nan & Grandad (i.e. your parents) don't live together. They don't need to know. Just say they couldn't live together any more as they weren't happy, so now they live in separate houses.

December2012

Em I think that you're making too much of having to explain the grandmother situation to be honest.

You should start to be telling your children about different family structures anyway.

We are in a similar situation to you. My kids know that not all parents live together, some people are better off living separately even when they still love their kids.

And that's all you have to do with your kids.

Some people have 3 grannies, some have none. That's not really a big deal.

Big Bag of Chips

I don't mean to be harsh on you OP. I get that you are deeply upset and hurt by all that happened in your life as a child. But it was 28 years ago when all this started. Your first post was all about all the horrible things your dad did
- had an affair with a younger woman
- walked out 2 days after Christmas
- forced your mother to sell the house etc

And then at the end of all that you ask should you go looking for an apology from your "step-mother".

You have now moved on to the reason this hurts is because you need to explain it to your kids. Yes, you can explain it to your kids. But don't think they will be shocked, appalled, confused and upset (I think you are projecting your own emotions onto them. And trying to use their upset to validate your own feelings on the issue) Kids accept what we as adults tell them. You can be fairly certain there are children in your kids' classes whose parents are separated. Or whose parents are unmarried, and never lived together. There will be kids who live with their mam and visit their dad at the weekends etc. So that is what you explain to the kids.

My own kids (eldest is 8) have told me about their friends who live with their mam but then live with their Dad at the weekends. My eldest asked me "Why do some marriages break down?". I answered that question as honestly as I could. My own husband has a daughter from a previous relationship. So my kids have an 18 year old sister who lives with her mam. It took a little bit of explaining for them to understand that Daddy had a baby before he got married to me (and that he wasn't married to her mother... they (my kids) were firm believers that babies could only come along if you were married ). They even asked me why Daddy's other marriage broke down! I had to explain that he hadn't been married, but he did have a baby. And then I explained a little why the relationship broke down.

Having separated parents, or grandparents isn't a huge deal. And your kids will take their cues from you. So if you make this out to be some huge catastrophe then your kids will feel very bad about the whole thing. If you explain it in simple terms: Lots of relationships don't work out, sometimes people realise they don't love each other any more but they still love their kids etc, your kids will accept your explanation and be happier that their question was answered.

You have said over and over that as a father now you would never want to put your kids through upset etc... Then don't. Don't feel the need to drag them into a 28 year old row. Don't feel the need to "explain" why Nanny and Grandad don't live together and Grandad lives with someone else. Explain in general terms about relationships. They are kids. They will accept a lot quicker than you the various different family dynamics. Life for them is different to life "in our day". Separated families are nothing unusual now. And your eldest is 8 - so this all happened 20 years before he was born. It's not as if his Nanny and Grandad are recently separated and he is wondering why Grandad has moved out. He has grown up with them living separately so it's not unusual for him. He might ask why they don't live together, because he is curous, because maybe his friend's Nanny and Grandad do live together..? The questions kids ask usually come from a simple place and require a simple explanation. It's the adults who complicate things.

I really do think you would benefit from some form of counselling to try come to terms with your parents separating.

jellyboy

Hi Op

i have read your posts in reply to peoples responses
and am struck by the business terms/metaphors/descriptions that you use
to describe emotions

In my view your father/mother/stepmother has nothing to do with this.

its your emotions and your view being listened to is key to you moving from your head to your heart.

have you tried counseling?
or even write a letter to all concerned?

have you told your mother how let down you feel by her not mothering and protecting you when you really needed it?

books and structures are great barriers to keep emotions in ..
but someday they will overflow

be kind to yourself and the little boy who is looking for answers

Soft Falling Rain

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Your children have TWO grandmothers. The stepmother is not the third. Why do you allow your children to call her 'Nan'?

The OP described his step mother as a mother figure to himself and his siblings regardless of his anger towards her, so I think there's nothing wrong with his kids calling her nan.

OP, what happened was a terrible thing for children to have to go through, but try to look at it rationally. Look at the actions of your stepmother; from the sounds of things, not only did she take you and your siblings in, but she embraced you like her own.

This woman basically rared you from a very young age, so at the very least you owe her a lot of respect and she should be much more to you than just the other woman at this stage. If you want to confront someone confront your father for his side of things.

username123

squawkinock wrote: »

As a married man, whose marriage far outlasted that of his parents, I know too well the stresses involved, yet I always make decisions that are best for my kids and wife.

No. You know the stresses of your own marriage, you haven't a clue about the stresses of other people's marriages.

I think you need to stop looking to lay blame for your own current discontent elsewhere and take responsibility for your own feelings. You're an adult now, if you are unhappy, or angry, that is YOUR responsibility to resolve, and not by upsetting other people seeking meaningless apologies for events that you were too young to understand. You need to seek professional help for yourself. The past cannot be changed, you need to accept that. You also need to stop comparing how you would act with how others acted. You can never know or understand every nuance of the past or say how you would have behaved in someone else's situation.

I am sorry for you that your past weighs so heavily on you, it is only your own actions that can resolve that now.

Big Bag of Chips

Another thing to consider is that your dad's "new" relationship has far outlasted his marriage. It is no longer an affair. Back in the "good old days" when the catholic church had far too much of a say in people's private lives, people stayed in bad marriages. They felt they couldn't move on it move out. They had married, 'for better or worse' and had to stick it out.

As a result people, put up with the most horrific abuse and bleak lives because they weren't allowed leave their marriage.

Thank God (no pun intended!) we have moved on from there. Yes, as a result people probably throw away relationships too quickly without giving them an honest shot. But on the other hand, people also find it easier to leave a bad relationship and get on with their one and only life in a relationship that will make them happy.

I'm sure your dad and stepmother have had their own difficulties over the years - a separated father of 3 with an alcoholic ex is going to bring it's share of stress and problems. But their relationship was stronger and better than that of your mam and dad's. That is why your parents' relationship failed, and why his "new" relationship has lasted this long.

bigblackmug

Tigger99 wrote: »

I thought after reading your post you meant, should you apologise to your step mother? Answer is yes by the way.

My god you are unreal. You have no idea what happened between your Mam and Dad. Maybe the marriage was in trouble for years before that woman came along, you were only a child after all. Maybe your Mam was already an alcoholic and hid it well until the breakup. Maybe not, but my point is you just don't know.

This woman took you and your siblings in, obviously treated you well if you saw her as a mother figure. If you are still angry with her, no doubt she picked up on this over the years. She sounds like a bloody saint.

Go, buy her the biggest bunch of flowers you can find, and thank her for taking you in. Then go speak to a counsellor about what obviously was a painful period in your life, and maybe talk to your Dad if appropriate.

This is an example of why seeking advice off amateur psychologists is so dangerous. Tigger99 is completely unqualified to give you advice on anything.
Your parents marraige may have broken down before she entered the equation, it may not. Homewreckers do exist. They do so for a variety of reasons such as, for example, low self-esteem or as a mating strategy where it is easier to steal a good partner who has through prior action demonstrated that they are willing to settle down in to a long-term relationship. It is hard to know. I don't know, you don't know and Tigger99 definitely doesn't know so that posters comments are completely inappropriate.
I really question the benefit of this forum as posters like Tigger99 can adhere to the moderation policy while giving very hurtful criticism on topics which of deep importance to the OP dressed up as "advice".

Tokyo

bigblackmug - seeing as you are quoting the forum charter at us, you'll no doubt be familiar with the other rules contained within, namely:

• Any advice given should be mature, constructive and non-abusive. Opinions are welcome. Ridicule and nastiness are not.
• Petty differences with other boards members will not be tolerated.
• Off topic and unhelpful behaviour will result in a ban and ban lengths are accumulative and posters have been permanently banned from the personal issues forum.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion on the OP's issue - I don't see any evidence here of attempting to apply amateur psychology, and it's by these very opinions on which the Personal Issues forum is built. However, blatant attacks on others as per your post are in direct violation of the forum charter and will not be tolerated. Another post like this will result in an infraction or ban.

Regards,
Mike

Colser

Hi Op..Firstly I fail to see how asking for an apology from your fathers partner would help you in any real way as you are asking her to apologise for something she probably doesnt feel the need to be apologetic for and even if she did it to appease you I dont think it would have the affect that you seem to be looking for.

When the situation took place initially there were 3 adults in the scenario not just this woman as you seem believe,your parents and especially your father played as big if not a bigger part in it all than she did IMO. Unless your father is very easily led astray(which I doubt) how can you blame her alone for him leaving your mother?.Do you think that she plucked him out of a happy marriage against his will? Maybe he pursued her for whatever reason and she may have been reluctant at first due to the fact that he was married.

I think that you will have to ask your father some questions to clarify exactly what took place as this seems to be basis for your bitterness. You really have no idea what took place in the lead up to the separation and you seem intent on blaming this woman.Also I think that not only are you upset about the effect it had on you but maybe you are more bitter about how it affected you mother.

Realistically i think you must know that you cannot blame this woman for taking your father (against his will) from your mother,causing your mother to take to the drink and now causing your children to be upset/confused about grandad and grannys living arrangements. I dont mean to be smart but as you say you are very well educated ect so you must realise that one woman didnt cause all the things that seem to be eating you up inside,I think there may be alot more to it but you are looking for a scapegoat and she is the easiest target.

Maybe look at your upbringing again OP and see that it may have been a much better one than it would have been if you were living with your parents in what would probably have been an unhappy home if they werent really in a good ( and maybe a very bad) relationship with each other.

bigblackmug

http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165822.pdf
Research document- Mate Poaching

The step-mother won her desired prize. The fact that she may have been kind and behaved well afterward wouldn't be an excuse for the very damaging behaviour that she engaged in and an apology decades later would be the very least that could be expected.
Only the OP is in a position to figure out if she was a mate poacher or not.

Colser

bigblackmug wrote: »

http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165822.pdf
Research document- Mate Poaching

The step-mother won her desired prize. The fact that she may have been kind and behaved well afterward wouldn't be an excuse for the very damaging behaviour that she engaged in and an apology decades later would be the very least that could be expected.
Only the OP is in a position to figure out if she was a mate poacher or not.

Are you saying that the OPs father had no say in the matter? Do you think he was poached totally against his will? Maybe the father won his prize for all we know or do you have some inside info on the situation?

username123

Obviously the step mother is not the solely guilty party. She is not responsible for the behaviour of a married father! But equally I wonder if the mothers alcoholism was the root cause of the marriage break up? Certainly she is to blame for abandoning her children in favour of the bottle.

But what use is the blame game? It changes nothing. The OP still finds himself decades later hurting. So he needs to resolve that.

bigblackmug

Colser wrote: »

Are you saying that the OPs father had no say in the matter? Do you think he was poached totally against his will? Maybe the father won his prize for all we know or do you have some inside info on the situation?

This sub-forum suffers very badly from group think.

Colser

bigblackmug wrote: »

This sub-forum suffers very badly from group think.

Are you part of said group think if you continue to post ? If not what sets you apart from said group in your opinion?

Big Bag of Chips

Colser and bigblackmug, please take your argument elsewhere. This is an advice forum. Offer advice to the OP or don't post.

bigblackmug, you have already received an onthread warning. If you don't like the Forum or how it operates, then you are respectfully asked to not post. If you would like to make a complaint about the Forum then you can contact the Admins or use the Feedback Forum

Please do not post on this thread again, and if you wish to continue posting to the Forum you are asked to not take pot shots at the other posters who post here.

Soft Falling Rain

username123 wrote: »

Obviously the step mother is not the solely guilty party. She is not responsible for the behaviour of a married father! But equally I wonder if the mothers alcoholism was the root cause of the marriage break up? Certainly she is to blame for abandoning her children in favour of the bottle.

But what use is the blame game? It changes nothing. The OP still finds himself decades later hurting. So he needs to resolve that.

The OP stated the mother's alcoholism began after the father left.

username123

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

The OP stated the mother's alcoholism began after the father left.

The OP was only a child, it's quite possible the alcoholism was already present but only spiraled out of control after the father left. Speaking from experience alcoholics don't tend to go from zero to full blown addiction as a result of one event or in such a short time frame. Generally speaking the tendency is already there long before it becomes a major problem. It's a progressive problem. An 8 year old would not be aware of problem drinking in the home until it starts happening in the daytime. By the time it gets to daytime drinking things have usually been deteriorating for quite a while.

Again, regardless of whether the above is true or not, the blame game helps no one.

Soft Falling Rain

username123 wrote: »

The OP was only a child, it's quite possible the alcoholism was already present but only spiraled out of control after the father left. Speaking from experience alcoholics don't tend to go from zero to full blown addiction as a result of one event or in such a short time frame. Generally speaking the tendency is already there long before it becomes a major problem. It's a progressive problem. An 8 year old would not be aware of problem drinking in the home until it starts happening in the daytime. By the time it gets to daytime drinking things have usually been deteriorating for quite a while.

Again, regardless of whether the above is true or not, the blame game helps no one.

You'd be surprised at what a child can pick up on. He or she said that they were 8 when the father left, which is old enough to recognise the signs of an alcohol problem.

On a side note, a lot of posters are being very harsh on the op's biological mother. I've worked with alcoholics, and if everything the op says is true about what his mother suffered within a short period of time, people have turned to alcohol for a lot less. It really is a devastating sequence of tragedies and I'd ask any of you to put yourself in her shoes and ask yourself how you would react.

Stavro Mueller

If finger pointing was the name of the game, I'd be pointing the first one at the OP's father. He's the one who chose to have the affair, left his wife and kids and then made them sell the house. A lot of what happened after that sounds like a series of unfortunate events which nobody could've predicted. I guess all three adults in this sorry story are to blame to a certain extent but I'd certainly not be shoving the father's new partner out front to take the flack. You could argue that she paid the price by ending up with the three kids on her floor.

I don't blame the OP for being angry about what happened but I'm not convinced reopening old wounds is going to achieve anything. I've a feeling he thinks it'll be a cut and dried affair and then life will move on. There's a lot of risk attached. Nobody can predict what the stepmother will have to say about what happened back then. She might not feel she owes anyone an apology and in fact feels hard done by. She might be very hurt or upset about being blamed for the split. The OP's father might get involved in this and it could cause a rift. All for what? So the OP can vent his spleen?

The OP didn't say what sort of relationship the kids have with granddad and his partner. If it's a good one, the OP's running the risk of ruining that by digging up this past. I think the best course of action would be to go see a counsellor if the OP can't get past this. They've got their own family now and that's where their priorities lie.

username123

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

You'd be surprised at what a child can pick up on. He or she said that they were 8 when the father left, which is old enough to recognise the signs of an alcohol problem.

On a side note, a lot of posters are being very harsh on the op's biological mother. I've worked with alcoholics, and if everything the op says is true about what his mother suffered within a short period of time, people have turned to alcohol for a lot less. It really is a devastating sequence of tragedies and I'd ask any of you to put yourself in her shoes and ask yourself how you would react.

I'm not interested in a debate about the OPs mothers alcoholism. It still comes back to a blame game helping no one.

Magicmatilda

It's sound OP like you are trying to sort out your feelings on the whole situation. Maybe you were so busy achieving you haven't really let yourself stop and work through it. It must have been traumatic for you as a small child to go through all of that. I would suggest seeing a counsellor to figure out your feelings. Perhaps what you need is for someone, your mum, dad or step mum to acknowledge what happened. Be aware though that you do not know the full story of your parents marraige break up. Alcoholism may have been there already it doesn't usually start so suddenly.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, maybe the fact that your mother apologises repeatedly even though you feel she has nothing to apologise for is making you feel that the others (specifically your step-mother) should equally feel the need to apologise, as you see their wrong as greater.

Your mother probably feels the need to apologise for failing you as a mother. Your father probably doesn't feel he failed you as a father, though. And "the other woman" probably doesn't feel the need to apologise for being in a relationship with your dad for close to 30 years. While they may not have gotten together in ideal circumstances, she might feel the fact that they are still together proves that their relationship wasn't "wrong", and so doesn't warrant an apology?

If you were to ask for the apology, what exactly would you be looking for her/them to apologise for? Just a general apology for the past? Or an apology for something specific?

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, maybe the fact that your mother apologises repeatedly even though you feel she has nothing to apologise for is making you feel that the others (specifically your step-mother) should equally feel the need to apologise, as you see their wrong as greater.

Your mother probably feels the need to apologise for failing you as a mother. Your father probably doesn't feel he failed you as a father, though. And "the other woman" probably doesn't feel the need to apologise for being in a relationship with your dad for close to 30 years. While they may not have gotten together in ideal circumstances, she might feel the fact that they are still together proves that their relationship wasn't "wrong", and so doesn't warrant an apology?

If you were to ask for the apology, what exactly would you be looking for her/them to apologise for? Just a general apology for the past? Or an apology for something specific?

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I suppose I am very angry, and all the more so since Iv had my own kids. I couldn't describe within this forum all the crap I went through as a kid, but it was a lot.

Since the first post Iv been to see a councillor and she has made me feel so much better, although it will take a long time and a lot of work. It was a hard decision to make, to go and see someone, but it has been truly remarkable to just talk to someone.

ABajaninCork

Ah, I'm so glad you decided to see someone, and are already reaping the benefits.

Good luck to you!

December2012

There's a big change that happens when we have kids if there has been trauma in our own childhood.

Well done for going to get professional help.

Good luck to you and I wish you peace of mind in time.