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Questions about the fair deal scheme

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  • 12-04-2014 12:01pm
    #1
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭


    My Mum was diagnosed with Dementia four years ago (at age 53). Myself, my Dad and my sister are her full time carers. We currently don't have any assistance from anyone but we're beginning to realise that she may need full time care in a nursing home as it's becoming too hard to look after her. I'm just wondering what's involved in the fair deal scheme? How exactly does it work? My Mum doesn't have a pension and lost her job in 2008 so therefore has no savings. We're in the process of selling our house to pay off the mortgage to make things easier, but this doesn't allow us to afford to put her into a nursing home unfortunately. What options do we have (if any)? Does anyone have an estimate of what you'd pay every week? We're still not sure if this is the right thing for us to do as we'd rather have her at home, but we're just checking what our options are right now to see what suits everyone best! Thanks in advance for any help.
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    #2
    pluto_322
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭pluto_322


    The attached link might be of help:-

    http://www.dohc.ie/issues/fair_deal/FAQs_07_2013.pdf?direct=1


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    #3
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    The first thing about the fair deal is that a health professional would have to have decided that your mam can't live at home any more. So her GP for example or a specialist or the public health nurse will decide. Of course they will consult with her family but the desicion is theirs really.
    This is how it works financially. If you find a nursing home you like, that will take your mam you apply for the fair deal. They will look at your mam and dads entire income for the week. Then they half it. Then they will take 80% of that figure every week. That is your family's contribution towards her nursing care.
    As well as this, they will value your parents house, look at any other assets they have including savings in excess of €720000 and when your mam and dad are both dead they will take 7.5% of this estate for each year that she is in the nursing home up to a maximum of 3 years.don't forget this will only happen when they are both dead.


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    #4
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    Sorry for the late response. Thank you for the helpful replies! The only asset we have is our family home. I'm not sure I understand correctly, but does that mean when both of my parents are dead, they'll take the house to pay back the debt? Correct me if I'm wrong. My Dad wants to buy this house so myself and my sister will eventually inherit it and have it as our own. Will that not be possible if we go with the fair deal scheme?


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    #5
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    larrlin24 wrote: »
    Sorry for the late response. Thank you for the helpful replies! The only asset we have is our family home. I'm not sure I understand correctly, but does that mean when both of my parents are dead, they'll take the house to pay back the debt? Correct me if I'm wrong. My Dad wants to buy this house so myself and my sister will eventually inherit it and have it as our own. Will that not be possible if we go with the fair deal scheme?
    A bit confused:pac:. You said in your opening post that you were selling a house, now you say your dad is buying a house. Who currently owns the family home? Whose name is it in right now?


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    #6
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    A bit confused:pac:. You said in your opening post that you were selling a house, now you say your dad is buying a house. Who currently owns the family home? Whose name is it in right now?

    Sorry should have clarified. We (as in myself, my sister and my Dad) are selling our family home and buying a new one. The house belongs to my Mum and Dad! Currently in both their names. The new house will belong to both of them as my Mum has been made a Ward of Court. Hope that's enough info!


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    #7
    pluto_322
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭pluto_322


    The family home will only be taken into account if you decide to defer the payment of 80% of your mother's assessable assets - in which case, the HSE may provide a "Nursing Home Loan or Ancillary State Support" but will register a charge against the family home.

    I would strongly advise you to read this document

    http://www.dohc.ie/issues/fair_deal/FAQs_07_2013.pdf?direct=1


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    #8
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    pluto_322 wrote: »
    The family home will only be taken into account if you decide to defer the payment of 80% of your mother's assessable assets - in which case, the HSE may provide a "Nursing Home Loan or Ancillary State Support" but will register a charge against the family home.

    I would strongly advise you to read this document

    Thanks again! I'll have a read and pass it on to my Dad.


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    #9
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    larrlin24 wrote: »
    Sorry should have clarified. We (as in myself, my sister and my Dad) are selling our family home and buying a new one. The house belongs to my Mum and Dad! Currently in both their names. The new house will belong to both of them as my Mum has been made a Ward of Court. Hope that's enough info!

    The house is belonging to your mam and dad as your mam is entering long term care.
    As the next poster is pointing out, if you cannot afford to pay the most of the nursing home bill every week, then you will be applying for the Nursing Home Loan. (This is what most people do). That means that while your mam is hospitalised your family's only contribution to her weekly care will be the 80% of her half of her and your dads weekly income.
    However when both she and your dad are both dead the government will come back and take a percentage of the value of the house as valued when your mam goes into longterm care. As your dad at least has hopefully many years to enjoy his children and grandchildren, then this scenario would seem to be a long way off.


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    #10
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    The house is belonging to your mam and dad as your mam is entering long term care.
    As the next poster is pointing out, if you cannot afford to pay the most of the nursing home bill every week, then you will be applying for the Nursing Home Loan. (This is what most people do). That means that while your mam is hospitalised your family's only contribution to her weekly care will be the 80% of her half of her and your dads weekly income.
    However when both she and your dad are both dead the government will come back and take a percentage of the value of the house as valued when your mam goes into longterm care. As your dad at least has hopefully many years to enjoy his children and grandchildren, then this scenario would seem to be a long way off.

    Thank you for taking the time to explain. Seems reasonable enough. So that would mean that myself and my sister would more than likely have to sell the family home to pay it back then in the future yes? I don't have time to sit down and read pluto_322's link tonight(I'm sure these things are mentioned there), so I'm just wondering if we were to apply this week, would it take long to get it? Sorry I probably sound like a moron with all these questions but this is all new to me.


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    #11
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    larrlin24 wrote: »
    Thank you for taking the time to explain. Seems reasonable enough. So that would mean that myself and my sister would more than likely have to sell the family home to pay it back then in the future yes? I don't have time to sit down and read pluto_322's link tonight(I'm sure these things are mentioned there), so I'm just wondering if we were to apply this week, would it take long to get it? Sorry I probably sound like a moron with all these questions but this is all new to me.

    No problem . Even if there is no arrangement in place for your mam to be admitted right away, you should still apply this week. Applications are taking 6 weeks to process, and one granted the offer remains valid for 6 months.


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    #12
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    larrlin24 wrote: »
    Thank you for taking the time to explain. Seems reasonable enough. So that would mean that myself and my sister would more than likely have to sell the family home to pay it back then in the future yes? I don't have time to sit down and read pluto_322's link tonight(I'm sure these things are mentioned there), so I'm just wondering if we were to apply this week, would it take long to get it? Sorry I probably sound like a moron with all these questions but this is all new to me.

    The allocation of funding for the Fair Deal scheme has been capped by DOHC for the past few years. This means, in layman's terms, that you should get the application in asap. If you leave until later, the funds may have dried up.

    By the way, is a Public Health Nurse calling to your mother regularly? If so, her/his input in support of the F.D. application can be invaluable.

    Also you should have a look at the options available to your family in relation to your mother's future care here http://www.hse.ie/portal/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/ . Fair Deal is not the only option.


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    #13
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    No problem . Even if there is no arrangement in place for your mam to be admitted right away, you should still apply this week. Applications are taking 6 weeks to process, and one granted the offer remains valid for 6 months.

    Ok thank you. I'll apply right away!


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    #14
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    The allocation of funding for the Fair Deal scheme has been capped by DOHC for the past few years. This means, in layman's terms, that you should get the application in asap. If you leave until later, the funds may have dried up.

    By the way, is a Public Health Nurse calling to your mother regularly? If so, her/his input in support of the F.D. application can be invaluable.

    Also you should have a look at the options available to your family in relation to your mother's future care here . Fair Deal is not the only option.

    No we don't currently have any outside support. My Dad, my sister and I are her full time carers. Thanks for the link!


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    #15
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    larrlin24 wrote: »
    No we don't currently have any outside support. My Dad, my sister and I are her full time carers. Thanks for the link!

    I presume she has a Medical Card. I would advise you to contact Nursing Office of the HSE HQ nearest you and ask could a PHN call when she is in the area. If s/he can assess your Mum, it could prove invaluable in supporting any further application for assistance.


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    #16
    larrlin24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭larrlin24


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    I presume she has a Medical Card. I would advise you to contact Nursing Office of the HSE HQ nearest you and ask could a PHN call when she is in the area. If s/he can assess your Mum, it could prove invaluable in supporting any further application for assistance.

    No medical card either I'm afraid!


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