Deposit disputes between myself and housemate

Dara Robinson

Guys, I could really use some advice here.

So my housemate has moved out and the whole experience has turned into a nightmare.

So back at the end of January she decided to move out, my problem at the time was that she never told me, she told the landlord (who never told me, nor discussed this with me in any way actually). About the 14-16th of Feb she told me she was thinking of maybe moving and we talked about it for a while and long story short I asked her has she given notice, was told no, had she even spoken to the landlord, was told no, and told her that she would need to check the contract cause I was not even sure if we needed to give 1 or 2 months notice. She said she would and we said we would talk again so she could let me know, little did I know that 2 weeks before she has already given in her notice.
Any way, this is all annoying but incidental... to the point now

When I eventually found out what was going on she was looking for her deposit back, the rest was due in a few days and my work contract was up about 2 week and I had no other work at the time. I told her that there was no way I could afford to give her the deposit plus pay double rent when it was due in 3 days and I not only had no job but no notice. I told her that I would return her deposit once I got myself a job, which she knew would be asap.

She said ok but then proceeded to hassle the landlord for the deposit who was in turn hassling me. Eventually I spoke to her again and reminded her that she owned me half of the bills that I had paid and was still awaiting payment for, amounting to over €260 (or about €135 or so each). I tried to make an arrangement with her where if she waited until I had a job and was secure I would return her deposit in till and just ignore the bills she owed me.
While not legally relevant, I will point out that she has also taken property of mine that she is claiming is hers which is in the neighbourhood of €200, something which I have not even gotten into cause I am assuming it would mean the small claims court... which I just cant be arsed, at this stage I just want to be done.

So, any advice?
Can I legally deduct the bills from the deposit and return that amount to her? Would that leave me in hot water?
Can the landlord, with proof of course, deduct the bills owed to me from the deposit and return that to her?
Anyone know where I stand?

The_Conductor

Are you subletting to her- why do you have her deposit?
It would appear that she has a separate lease with the landlord- why are you involved in all of this? If she vacates her (separate) lease with the landlord- why do you now have to pay for the whole property? A few things just don't add up here.

You wouldn't normally have the deposit- and if you do- why do you have it? Its purpose is to repair or replace any damage above normal wear and tear on the elapse of the lease- its nothing whatsoever to do with you.

Obviously she should pay her share of the bills.

Her having your property- is a case of- 'he said, she said'- you can chase it if you want, but its a world of hassle.

I don't fully understand the situation- it sounds horribly convoluted.

Dara Robinson

I dont have her deposit, the landlord asked me to give her the deposit instead of him giving her half the deposit and then me giving that half to him myself and no, we do not have separate leases, we signed it together. Like most people who find and rent a house together.

The_Morrigan

If the lease is still in place she isn't technically entitled to her deposit until you move out.

The landlord should be sorting this out, not you.

Flippyfloppy

Dara Robinson wrote: »

I dont have her deposit, the landlord asked me to give her the deposit instead of him giving her half the deposit and then me giving that half to him myself and no, we do not have separate leases, we signed it together. Like most people who find and rent a house together.

Horrible situation. So next housemate would be giving you their deposit? It just sounds so wrong.

The_Conductor

Why are you liable for all the rent- if the landlord decided to accept her notice, without discussing it with you, the other party to the joint lease?

Also- why are you doing all this leg work for the landlord?

She has screwed you over- and the landlord is also screwing you over.......

Dara Robinson

The_Conductor wrote: »

Why are you liable for all the rent- if the landlord decided to accept her notice, without discussing it with you, the other party to the joint lease?

Also- why are you doing all this leg work for the landlord?

She has screwed you over- and the landlord is also screwing you over.......

Conductor, I am not an idiot, I am well aware of this. Please stop stating the obvious. Do you have any constructive advice? Any answers to my original posts questions? I am trying to salvage something here

As for the question of the whole rent, I actually want to live alone for a while at least so I agreed to pay for the place on my own. Seeing as I have a job I can afford it, its just all the attached BS I am having trouble with

The_Morrigan

Dara Robinson wrote: »

Conductor, I am not an idiot, I am well aware of this. Please stop stating the obvious. Do you have any constructive advice? Any answers to my original posts questions? I am trying to salvage something here

As for the question of the whole rent, I actually want to live alone for a while at least so I agreed to pay for the place on my own. Seeing as I have a job I can afford it, its just all the attached BS I am having trouble with

The answer to your original question is no you can't legally deduct anything from her deposit.
It's the landlords responsibility, not yours.

In relation to your post to my co-mod, watch your tone please. Questions need to be asked in order to give informed advice.

Dara Robinson

The_Morrigan wrote: »

The answer to your original question is no you can't legally deduct anything from her deposit.
It's the landlords responsibility, not yours.

Well I expected that part but I had to ask, as for the rest?

Can the landlord, with proof of course, deduct the bills owed to me from the deposit and return that to her?
Anyone know where I stand?

<SNIP>

The_Morrigan

Dara tell your landlord to do their own job.
If money is owed for bills then provide that to the landlord and let them sort it out.

It is not your responsibility to argue with an ex housemate over bills and deposits.

Dara Robinson

so the landlord has the right to deduct money from the bills provided owed to me from the deposit?

The_Morrigan

Dara Robinson wrote: »

so the landlord has the right to deduct money from the bills provided owed to me from the deposit?

The landlord is the only one who can make any valid deductions from a deposit - he must have proof of it though (unpaid bills/receipts for items or work done).

The landlord knows this, s/he is just fobbing all this work onto you.

Also, technically if you are going to remain as the sole tenant, the existing lease needs to be revoked and a new lease for just you needs to be written up and signed.

Dara Robinson

The_Morrigan wrote: »

The landlord is the only one who can make any valid deductions from a deposit - he must have proof of it though (unpaid bills/receipts for items or work done).

The landlord knows this, s/he is just fobbing all this work onto you.

Also, technically if you are going to remain as the sole tenant, the existing lease needs to be revoked and a new lease for just you needs to be written up and signed.

Thank you, I thought this was the case but I was not sure and my online searches have given me any concrete answers. I've a meeting with Threashold Monday but at least this is giving me some peace of mind for the weekend

As for me and the landlord, we are working something out, looks like I am going to be under the part 4 lease which should give me security for the next few years

fash

I am going to assume that there is only one lease on the property. If this is so, the landlord has no role in this. Both you and the other tenant are jointly liable for the rent.

As there is no written contract between the tenants. your co-tenant does not get a deposit back and is liable for rent until the tenancy is properly ended(unless for example you come to some agreement there is a replacement tenant and the moving out tenant "fills the gap" for rent etc). Merely informing the landlord by phone etc is not sufficient to end the tenancy.

Dara Robinson

fash wrote: »

I am going to assume that there is only one lease on the property. If this is so, the landlord has no role in this. Both you and the other tenant are jointly liable for the rent.

As there is no written contract between the tenants. your co-tenant does not get a deposit back and is liable for rent until the tenancy is properly ended(unless for example you come to some agreement there is a replacement tenant and the moving out tenant "fills the gap" for rent etc). Merely informing the landlord by phone etc is not sufficient to end the tenancy.

The 1 year lease had not been renewed and we were falling under the part 4 lease at the time. nothing new had been written up though. The lease ran out about 5 months before

fash

Dara Robinson wrote: »

The 1 year lease had not been renewed and we were falling under the part 4 lease at the time. nothing new had been written up though. The lease ran out about 5 months before

Ok- so there is a single part 4 lease in place. It has nothing to si with the landlord. Both of you are jointly and severally liable for the rent until the lease ends. Your friend telling the landlord s/he wanted to leave didn't affect the lease. The landlord has no power to interfere or give the deposit back.

Between you and the landlord, you can stay or you can go. But you must formally give leave with the correct amount of notice.
You must give formal notice in writing a couple of weeks in advance ( I haven't worked out how much from the info you supplied)

Between you and the other tenant, you are both jointly liable until the tenancy ends. Normally that means your other tenant looks for a replacement who will be satisfactory to the landlord- and to you. You existing co-tenant pays up ant shortfall in rent and gets the deposit off the replacement.

Mrs OBumble

Just find a replacement, and get the deposit off them.

Simples.

The_Conductor

Dara- you've gotten good advice on this thread.
You have a single lease with the landlord- not multiple leases.
Bitching at me for trying to elicit more information from you- isn't going to achieve anything.
I frankly don't understand the situation- and if it is as you say, you need to get proper advice- and give the body helping you all the information at the outset, dripfeeding tidbits isn't a particularly helpful way to elicit advice or support.

Further- the comment I made that you seem to have taken such umbrage at- was trying to get you to say whether you had a joint lease, or not- something you subsequently qualified- I wasn't deliberately picking on you- despite you taking it as such.

I genuinely don't understand how you allowed you get yourself into the current situation- and am glad you have a meeting with Threshold tomorrow. Good luck with the meeting.

Mrs OBumble

I originally said:

Just find a replacement, and get the deposit off them.
Simples.



But now have seen that there is no replacement in the picture. So to me the situation is quite clear .. and you're gonna hate this:

The LL has the right to retain the full deposit for the place, unless the lease is broken, which is what is happening. In that case, the LL should do a full inspection, decide what deposit is due back and give it back to you - in the proportions in which it was originally given, ie if you gave 50% each, you should get 50% of the amount back each. The LL has no legal right to withhold for utility bills etc - unless these were in his name. If these are in your name, and the housemate hasn't paid you her share, then it's a civil dispute between you and the housemate.

BUT the moment when your housemate gets her deposit back is the time when she will have cash to pay you - so if possible be there, in the hope that you get some of it.

Now if there is a new lease being signed, then the LL will need a full deposit for this, which you will have to pay. Luckily s/he just "gave" you back about 1/2 of it - but you will have to stump up the rest.

All that said, there are various illegal actions here, eg the LL taking notice from only 1/2 of the tenants, the HM not paying her share of bills on time.

Threshold will probably focus on these, as people here have. But I'd suggest forgetting the legalities as far as possible, and working on pragmatic solutions.



This case is a perfect example of why I'd never sign a joint tenancy lease. Would far rather take responsibility for all the rent and have the right to sublet. I also take a bills-kitty contribution off people, to avoid this situation. OP, I hope you haven't got stung too badly: it cost me €150 (at a time when my rent was about €35 per week) to learn the above.