Sync breeding maiden Heifers

dungfly

I want to sync a large group of heifers with Prostaglandin. Where can I get this injection? Is it only available from the vet or can I get it elsewhere? Any advice with regard to syncing large groups of heifers?

Ref:
http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/moorepark/Tips/200906June/Breedingmaidenheifers.pdf

Milked out

Watch for a week, bull anything going. Inject with pg on day 7 heifers not served, observe for heats particularly at 48 to 72 hours and serve as normal. 11 days after first shot, inject any heifer that hasn't been bulling and Ai on signs of heat or fix time at 48 and 72 hours. Pg is a pom so had to be vets I'd say. lutalyse is wat I use

dungfly

How many doses in a bottle? How do you plan the number of doses in advance when you are not sure how many you will be treating?

Milked out

lutalyse is a 5cc dose, normally in 30ml bottle. I'd get enough for all heifers, watever is left could be used during the season on cows. Do not leave a pregnant woman next nor near it, as with all treatments gloves should be worn and usual precautions taken

frazzledhome

Milked out wrote: »

Watch for a week, bull anything going. Inject with pg on day 7 heifers not served, observe for heats particularly at 48 to 72 hours and serve as normal. 11 days after first shot, inject any heifer that hasn't been bulling and Ai on signs of heat or fix time at 48 and 72 hours. Pg is a pom so had to be vets I'd say. lutalyse is wat I use

I use this system. I can never remember is the first day of AI day "0" or day "1"?

Milked out

I use the calendar week, so that would make the first day breeding day 0 I guess. Can't remember now wat Doreen said when I did the Ai course a couple of years back

Greengrass1

IAnyone see jacks rant about serving heifers at the start same as the cows in the journal?
I think its directed at what bill o Keefe wroth last week ha

dungfly

How much are ye paying per litre dose? What kind of money would be you expect off for a crash large order?

awaywithyou

Surely there is a limit to how many you'd do at the one time.....? If you've hundred maiden heifers.... And say 30 come in the first wk.. Ten you go with estrumate... Surely doing 70 with the estrumate is too many...?

Damo810

Greengrass1 wrote: »

IAnyone see jacks rant about serving heifers at the start same as the cows in the journal?
I think its directed at what bill o Keefe wroth last week ha

Would farmers generally do Heifers a bit earlier allowing them more time to come back in heat second time round?

frazzledhome

awaywithyou wrote: »

Surely there is a limit to how many you'd do at the one time.....? If you've hundred maiden heifers.... And say 30 come in the first wk.. Ten you go with estrumate... Surely doing 70 with the estrumate is too many...?

I find that about 30-40% come first week inject remainder and usually 70% of these come on.

trixi2011

dungfly wrote: »

I want to sync a large group of heifers with Prostaglandin. Where can I get this injection? Is it only available from the vet or can I get it elsewhere? Any advice with regard to syncing large groups of heifers?

Ref:
http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/moorepark/Tips/200906June/Breedingmaidenheifers.pdf

I usually use 2 pg shots I thinks its about 11 days apart. So inject all heifers 12 days out from planned start of breeding. After 11 days inject again and put on kamars and tailpaint. Ai for 4-5 days depending on submission rate. let the bulls out and go on the beer for 2 days until the cows breeding starts.

dungfly

frazzledhome wrote: »

I find that about 30-40% come first week inject remainder and usually 70% of these come on.

Can you clarify what you mean here? Is it that 30% you AI in the first week and the remaining 70% you sync?

dungfly

When a group of heifers are synced on the same day how closely would you expect them to calve? Any figures?

trixi2011

dungfly wrote: »

When a group of heifers are synced on the same day how closely would you expect them to calve? Any figures?

some will calve before time some on time and some over time

charleysurf

awaywithyou wrote: »

Surely there is a limit to how many you'd do at the one time.....? If you've hundred maiden heifers.... And say 30 come in the first wk.. Ten you go with estrumate... Surely doing 70 with the estrumate is too many...?

there was an advisor from the states talking at the kilworth open day on wed and he said that they might coil 700 cows in one day over there. said it was easier labour wise to do it this was

frazzledhome

trixi2011 wrote: »

I usually use 2 pg shots I thinks its about 11 days apart. So inject all heifers 12 days out from planned start of breeding. After 11 days inject again and put on kamars and tailpaint. Ai for 4-5 days depending on submission rate. let the bulls out and go on the beer for 2 days until the cows breeding starts.

Kmar and tail paint?

frazzledhome

trixi2011 wrote: »

I usually use 2 pg shots I thinks its about 11 days apart. So inject all heifers 12 days out from planned start of breeding. After 11 days inject again and put on kamars and tailpaint. Ai for 4-5 days depending on submission rate. let the bulls out and go on the beer for 2 days until the cows breeding starts.

Now that's a plan.

frazzledhome

dungfly wrote: »

Can you clarify what you mean here? Is it that 30% you AI in the first week and the remaining 70% you sync?

Yes I'm only talking about submission. It depends on where the heifers are in their cycle. You may get more than a third in the first week, usually do. I ai and put in another paddock then on day 7 inject remainder.

Injection will only work if heifer has cycled. You will have an odd heifer who may be Pre puberty and hasn't cycled and therefore the pg won't do anything.

I like Trixi's plan a lot. All over in 2-3 days

case 956

so when do ye plan to start bulling heifers? and cows? I very interested in this system as get the heifers done and dusted and then you can concentrate on cows

dungfly

When and how should I divide into groups of heifers so to make heat detection easiest? i.e.
-1st AIed group
-1st Injection group
-Not cycling
-2nd injection
-2nd AI


I am confused?

awaywithyou

dungfly wrote: »

When and how should I divide into groups of heifers so to make heat detection easiest? i.e.
-1st AIed group
-1st Injection group
-Not cycling
-2nd injection
-2nd AI


I am confused?

Are they in or out?

frazzledhome

trixi2011 wrote: »

I usually use 2 pg shots I thinks its about 11 days apart. So inject all heifers 12 days out from planned start of breeding. After 11 days inject again and put on kamars and tailpaint. Ai for 4-5 days depending on submission rate. let the bulls out and go on the beer for 2 days until the cows breeding starts.

Trixi,
Read over this and see if I have right please
Thurs. 17/4 Pg
Mon. 28/4 pg and Kmar
Tues 29/4. Let the games begin

Could you clarify if you meant kmar AND paint, or was it a typo?

trixi2011

frazzledhome wrote: »

Trixi,
Read over this and see if I have right please
Thurs. 17/4 Pg
Mon. 28/4 pg and Kmar
Tues 29/4. Let the games begin

Could you clarify if you meant kmar AND paint, or was it a typo?

Yip that sounds a about right to me but it has been a few years since I last used it myself as heifer are 200km away so I would check it out with your vet or someone you uses pg for sync. We used kmars and tailpaint as we got caught out one year with birds pulling kamars off :eek: You could also ai again on day 20-24 to maximise ai breed calves. Any time I used this it worked well and gave more time to concentrate on the cows.

trixi2011

charleysurf wrote: »

there was an advisor from the states talking at the kilworth open day on wed and he said that they might coil 700 cows in one day over there. said it was easier labour wise to do it this was

Yip saw this done on a farm this year with 600 cows it worked really well.

charleysurf

trixi2011 wrote: »

Yip saw this done on a farm this year with 600 cows it worked really well.

some cost to it but he said they expected 50% conception. could you imagine half the herd calving over a couple of days scary!

frazzledhome

trixi2011 wrote: »

Yip that sounds a about right to me but it has been a few years since I last used it myself as heifer are 200km away so I would check it out with your vet or someone you uses pg for sync. We used kmars and tailpaint as we got caught out one year with birds pulling kamars off :eek: You could also ai again on day 20-24 to maximise ai breed calves. Any time I used this it worked well and gave more time to concentrate on the cows.

I think I'll go with the 7 day ai program. I have a lot to do and don't want to be overwhelmed.

On the kmars, we find them well ahead of all others with heifers. One lesson we learned the hard way, silicone gun full of carpet glue and the birds won't budge them

sheebadog

OK, what do ye think of this.
I've a bunch of 40 maiden heifers to put in calf and will be using sexed semen.
I'm thinking of coiling them 3 weeks before the planned breeding date and then serving them as they come bulling the second time.
What do ye reckon??

awaywithyou

sheebadog wrote: »

OK, what do ye think of this.
I've a bunch of 40 maiden heifers to put in calf and will be using sexed semen.
I'm thinking of coiling them 3 weeks before the planned breeding date and then serving them as they come bulling the second time.
What do ye reckon??

We're using sexed... But no synching... Just inseminate to natural heats.... Was told to stay away from any synching when using sexed

sheebadog

awaywithyou wrote: »

We're using sexed... But no synching... Just inseminate to natural heats.... Was told to stay away from any synching when using sexed

I've been told the same.

frazzledhome

sheebadog wrote: »

I've been told the same.

Yes but your serving on second heat not synced heat. Will you let us know how it goes

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

Yes but your serving on second heat not synced heat. Will you let us know how it goes

Do you see any problems with it?

Greengrass1

I have an April born heifer from last year with my autumn born heifers.
She was shocking poor last December when she went with them

Was very surprised when I weighed her.
270kgs
The autumn ones are ranging from 140 to 210 KGS.

frazzledhome

sheebadog wrote: »

Do you see any problems with it?

If you aren't serving on sync heat I see no prob.

I am however confused.
Are you coiling and not serving that heat but serving next heat. Next heat would be natural so I'd see no problem

sheebadog

frazzledhome wrote: »

If you aren't serving on sync heat I see no prob.

I am however confused.
Are you coiling and not serving that heat but serving next heat. Next heat would be natural so I'd see no problem

Coiling but not serving, then serve next natural heat.
I want as little messing as possible because there are another two batches to do later on.

trixi2011

sheebadog wrote: »

Coiling but not serving, then serve next natural heat.
I want as little messing as possible because there are another two batches to do later on.

I woudnt bother with the coils just do a simple pg sync 3 weeks before hand will work out much cheaper and with heifers you should get the same result as using coils

sheebadog

trixi2011 wrote: »

I woudnt bother with the coils just do a simple pg sync 3 weeks before hand will work out much cheaper and with heifers you should get the same result as using coils

Thanks Trix. Would you give them the 2 shots 11 days apart?

trixi2011

Yip that should bring them all into line the same as useins Ciders

Timmaay

Sheeba, I was only thinking the other day, when I left an autumn calver with poor fertility off not served as I don't want cows calving outside of the calving block, that instead I really should have given her a LM or some other bull with a long gestation. Do you do the likes of that to help with block calving?

sheebadog

Timmaay wrote: »

Sheeba, I was only thinking the other day, when I left an autumn calver with poor fertility off not served as I don't want cows calving outside of the calving block, that instead I really should have given her a LM or some other bull with a long gestation. Do you do the likes of that to help with block calving?

No we don't Tim.
Impossible situation here with fertility.
We don't serve any cow until she comes under 30kgs/day. That can be quite a while in milk.
We have a batch calving now and will finish end of June. Then another batch starting in September. This is really to clean out calving pens and the auto feeder!
Calving is almost constant. Milking machine hasn't had a day off in 30 years.
Used a handful of BB straws on cows and it was the easiest calving BB they had. Big mistake, they are monsters.
Trying to source an Angus bull ATM and it's almost impossible. Might pm Whelan2 !

knockmulliner

sheebadog wrote: »

Thanks Trix. Would you give them the 2 shots 11 days apart?

After 7 days of heat detection with tail paint and a vactomised bull i give 1 cc prostaglandin in the soft flesh near the vulva on day 1 and 2 cc day 11 90% conception in 30 days last year,not using sexed semen. Just started detection, hope it works as well this year. Heifers 50/50 holstein/B . fresian 325 to 400 kg.

Mad4simmental

sheebadog wrote: »

No we don't Tim.
Impossible situation here with fertility.
We don't serve any cow until she comes under 30kgs/day. That can be quite a while in milk.
We have a batch calving now and will finish end of June. Then another batch starting in September. This is really to clean out calving pens and the auto feeder!
Calving is almost constant. Milking machine hasn't had a day off in 30 years.
Used a handful of BB straws on cows and it was the easiest calving BB they had. Big mistake, they are monsters.
Trying to source an Angus bull ATM and it's almost impossible. Might pm Whelan2 !

Would you not try your friends blonde? They have very small heads and are very Easley calved. They pop up in 5 minuets and are as hard as nails.

sheebadog

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Would you not try your friends blonde? They have very small heads and are very Easley calved. They pop up in 5 minuets and are as hard as nails.

Calves (except Holstein heifers) are a byproduct to me. Angus or Hereford are hard th beat for that job!
Anyhow those Blondes look fair big to me.

knockmulliner

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Would you not try your friends blonde? They have very small heads and are very Easley calved. They pop up in 5 minuets and are as hard as nails.

used blonde stock bulls for years, reared heifers for suckler dams, sold bull calves good prices at the time great stock, easily born, good instinct to suck, good temperament.

dungfly

knockmulliner wrote: »

After 7 days of heat detection with tail paint and a vactomised bull i give 1 cc prostaglandin in the soft flesh near the vulva on day 1 and 2 cc day 11 90% conception in 30 days last year,not using sexed semen. Just started detection, hope it works as well this year. Heifers 50/50 holstein/B . fresian 325 to 400 kg.

Can you explain what you mean here!? I haven't heard of this approach before?

knockmulliner

Observe and ai for 7 days. Hormone all not aied, observe and ai for 10 days, hormone all not aied, observe and ai for 10 days, take out the teaser bull and put in the clean up bull with a chin ball, observe and record, 30 days after last recorded serve scan.
Hormone administered in the vulva area is most effective so initially a half dose on a heifer will work so a cost saving.

dungfly

Very interesting about injecting into vulva, i suppose this helps target the hormone.

I have a few non-cycling heifers remaining after my sync program. I want to coil them. How should i plan this? For example pg injection used alongside coiling?

dungfly

Just realised that I AI'ed on 1st sync heat as opposed to sync 2nd heat (which is the true heat). What are the repercussions of this?