Cobh visit

Horse84

If anyone's down south this weekend the USS Leyte Gulf is in port for a visit. They prob don't let the public on anymore but they're still impressive to see. Been on 2 of her sister ships there before years ago.

Red Nissan

A Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, one of 27 at a cost of One Billion Dollars each. Multi armed Tomahawk and Cruise missile launcher and all on active duty in carrier escort and anti air and submarine capability as well as aggression.

A bit of a beast.

sparky42

Red Nissan wrote: »

A Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, one of 27 at a cost of One Billion Dollars each. Multi armed Tomahawk and Cruise missile launcher and all on active duty in carrier escort and anti air and submarine capability as well as aggression.

A bit of a beast.

I think some of the first hulls have been decommissioned, and there's the one that crashed in Hawaii, hope they know about Spit Bank.

Traffic is going to be nuts around Cobh again, here's hoping the PANA muppets don't turn up.

Larbre34

Great story on the Wiki about her, Carrier Theodore Roosevelt suddenly reverses engines with LG astern and she slams right into the back of 'TR' . Her specs now cite that she 'lost 2 feet' in the incident!

Horse84

Just docking now, heavy enough police presence.

sparky42

Yeah the security level is very high. I knew they wouldn't let you on board anymore but the whole area around the Deep Water is closed off. What's the point in coming into a non base port if you are going to have that level of security, just go to one of the US bases like Rota in Spain or the RN bases if that's the case.

Red Nissan

https://vimeo.com/91797192

Arriving off Cork harbour.

Red Nissan

sparky42 wrote: »

Yeah the security level is very high. I knew they wouldn't let you on board anymore but the whole area around the Deep Water is closed off. What's the point in coming into a non base port if you are going to have that level of security, just go to one of the US bases like Rota in Spain or the RN bases if that's the case.

She is not allowed visitors in the USA either, she is on active service, not a PR trip as such. Her primary mission here is to liase her NATO defense mission and Ireland''s role in that.

Considering her mission, it's a wonder she did not in fact berth at the Navy Base.

tac foley

Red Nissan wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/91797192

Arriving off Cork harbour.

'Sorry, this video cannot be played in your region'. :mad:

tac

Red Nissan

tac foley wrote: »

'Sorry, this video cannot be played in your region'. :mad: tac

Unexpected, is it something Id have done?

sparky42

Red Nissan wrote: »

She is not allowed visitors in the USA either, she is on active service, not a PR trip as such. Her primary mission here is to liase her NATO defense mission and Ireland''s role in that.

Considering her mission, it's a wonder she did not in fact berth at the Navy Base.

Like I said I get that the pr type stuff doesn't happen anymore but sealing off the deep water to that extent is a bit of overkill. I thought that the only thing she's doing is hosting a US embassy do?

As to docking at the base, it could an issue of draft, she's over twice as deep as the navy ships.

Horse84

Yea I'm not too sure if I'm all too comfortable with this particular visit either. The security was very high and I presume that has to be maintained 24/7 for the next 5 days or so. Plus if I'm not mistaken they've set up a 50 cal on the bow. That to me isn't on, this is still Irish territory and if they think they feel under threat then they should think twice about docking where they did. I just left feeling uneasy about the whole thing today. It wasn't anything like what it was before with naval ships coming there.

Red Nissan

sparky42 wrote: »

Like I said I get that the pr type stuff doesn't happen anymore but sealing off the deep water to that extent is a bit of overkill.

Last one I was down for was the USS Sullivans [I thought a light or Escort carrier??] but currently a guided missile destroyer like Leyte Gulf and the whole place was sealed off tightly too.

tac foley

Red Nissan wrote: »

Unexpected, is it something Id have done?

Not at all, Sir. I'm just a lot nearer Holland than I am to wherever this is coming from - it is one of the reasons why I prefer Youtube over Vimeo.

tac

sparky42

Horse84 wrote: »

Yea I'm not too sure if I'm all too comfortable with this particular visit either. The security was very high and I presume that has to be maintained 24/7 for the next 5 days or so. Plus if I'm not mistaken they've set up a 50 cal on the bow. That to me isn't on, this is still Irish territory and if they think they feel under threat then they should think twice about docking where they did. I just left feeling uneasy about the whole thing today. It wasn't anything like what it was before with naval ships coming there.

There's actually two of them looking at some photos, but that seems to be the common set up now, the last US ship in had a couple of 50 cal's on the bridge pretty much level with the High Road from memory. You've also got Irish Navy/Garda boats in the water as well and 4+ Gardaí standing at the barricades all day (do we pay for all that or does the US?). Then you have the disruption of losing a segment of the Car Park for the duration. Thing is only the US and the Brits do this (and you can understand the Brits), the other nations that come in don't have this level of security, the Canadian frigate last year was tied up in Cork just like the Dutch/French/Belgians/etc do.

I get the need for protecting the ships in risky areas, but when was the last time a US ship was threatened in Western Europe? I'd bet there's no credible threat here in Ireland to generate that level of security.

sparky42

Red Nissan wrote: »

Last one I was down for was the USS Sullivans [I thought a light or Escort carrier??] but currently a guided missile destroyer like Leyte Gulf and the whole place was sealed off tightly too.

When was The Sullivans in last (I can't remember) from memory the last ship was an Amphib ship I think.

Local-womanizer

sparky42 wrote: »

There's actually two of them looking at some photos, but that seems to be the common set up now, the last US ship in had a couple of 50 cal's on the bridge pretty much level with the High Road from memory. You've also got Irish Navy/Garda boats in the water as well and 4+ Gardaí standing at the barricades all day (do we pay for all that or does the US?). Then you have the disruption of losing a segment of the Car Park for the duration. Thing is only the US and the Brits do this (and you can understand the Brits), the other nations that come in don't have this level of security, the Canadian frigate last year was tied up in Cork just like the Dutch/French/Belgians/etc do.

I get the need for protecting the ships in risky areas, but when was the last time a US ship was threatened in Western Europe? I'd bet there's no credible threat here in Ireland to generate that level of security.

If you see the need for this level of security with British ships surely you can see the need for the same with the US ships. Its well known that there are certain groups within Ireland that would love nothing better to damage a disrupt the "Merican baby killers!"

Look at Shannon airport for example. Old women running onto a live runway in the hopes of stopping the International war effort in the Middle East.

Horse84

Of course there are however it's already been said that the gardai have cordoned off the area and check everyone going near there, the Garda station is right next to it and on top of that the naval service are stopping any boats coming within 50-100m of it.
The overt placement of heavy machine guns is completely and utterly over the top in my view and shouldn't be tolerated at all.
I've no problem with them having their own security on standby ready to react that's their prerogative.Just my opinion and I'm not a crusty or a tree hugger.

Red Nissan

Horse84 wrote: »

Just my opinion and I'm not a crusty or a tree hugger.

I wonder did she unload her 'specials' before entering our harbour?

sparky42

Local-womanizer wrote: »

If you see the need for this level of security with British ships surely you can see the need for the same with the US ships. Its well known that there are certain groups within Ireland that would love nothing better to damage a disrupt the "Merican baby killers!"

Look at Shannon airport for example. Old women running onto a live runway in the hopes of stopping the International war effort in the Middle East.

A ship can be isolated much more than a runway, it's out on the pontoon, so it's about 30 feet from the Deep Water with only one access point on to it, you could easily have the barricades at the walkway down onto the Pontoon and still maintain security. More over we supposedly (we don't but it's a different situation) have restrictions on live fire weapons coming into Shannon, where as the Leyete Gulf had at least 4 manned 50 cal machine guns. The Royal Navy security situation in Ireland isn't the same as the USN position and trying to equate the two is wrong (not unless that granny has been trying to kill US service personnel for the last 30+ years?)

Other than saying "We visited Cobh" there is little if anything that this is accomplishing (how exactly does the Maritime Security around Western Europe rate as being at risk compared to other areas (where the Irish Navy aren't going to be deployed), in terms of economic value for both nations it would have been simpler/cheaper for them to put into the UK or Spain and fly whatever "officials" attended last night there on RyanAir.

sparky42

Red Nissan wrote: »

I wonder did she unload her 'specials' before entering our harbour?

She doesn't carry any, the nuclear Tomahawks have been out of service for years. Given the fact that the USN has more VLS tubes than missiles to put in them she might even have some empty space on board.

Local-womanizer

sparky42 wrote: »

A ship can be isolated much more than a runway, it's out on the pontoon, so it's about 30 feet from the Deep Water with only one access point on to it, you could easily have the barricades at the walkway down onto the Pontoon and still maintain security. More over we supposedly (we don't but it's a different situation) have restrictions on live fire weapons coming into Shannon, where as the Leyete Gulf had at least 4 manned 50 cal machine guns. The Royal Navy security situation in Ireland isn't the same as the USN position and trying to equate the two is wrong (not unless that granny has been trying to kill US service personnel for the last 30+ years?)

Yes the security threat against the British forces and the US forces in Ireland ins different but you can be sure a threat exists, obviously I can't see the anti-war movement attempting to take the life of a US sailor here but damaging US equipment, they would try, and I'm sure they would go to extreme lengths to do that.

The walkway is not hte only way to get near the ship tbf. I just can't see the problem you have with the .50 cals, I mean the ships armament is pretty extensive. But in fairness I don't see the need for the .50 cals to be manned when you could just have sailors posted with personal weapons.

irishrgr

Lads,

Although I'm not a Navy type, I've been on a few ship visits. The US Navy has rules for force protection that the skipper can't change. There is some rule about if there is not a barrier to protect the ship from small craft, the .50 cals have to be manned.

I agree, the threat in Ireland is non-existent in that respect, however, it would require a high level of analysis, paperwork, arse pain, coordination and approvals to get this waived for a quick shore visit to Ireland. Especially if the visit wasn't planned in advance and they needed to pop in for fuel, repairs, or whatever. Having dealt with the whole force protection pain, it's easier just to mount a guard and call it a day.

Having spoken to a skipper of a similar ship, he rolls his eyes about having to mount all this guard stuff in friendly ports, but what can you do. His point was for every sailor on watch, there was one waiting to go on watch, so half the bloody ship can't take shore leave, rosters have to be managed, weapons issued, accounted for, etc. His point (to his credit) was he gets security, but what his sailors to be able to take a well deserved break.

When they dock in the US, there is a armed detail on the gangplank, .50 cals all locked up. Very low posture.

mikeym

sparky42 wrote: »

Yeah the security level is very high. I knew they wouldn't let you on board anymore but the whole area around the Deep Water is closed off. What's the point in coming into a non base port if you are going to have that level of security, just go to one of the US bases like Rota in Spain or the RN bases if that's the case.

To give the crew some much needed R+R.

sparky42

mikeym wrote: »

To give the crew some much needed R+R.

As opposed to going to a US/NATO secured Harbour and being able to stand down to a lower level of security? The 20-30 people on security operations aren't getting much R+R manning machine guns looking at the Irish navy in Ribs, nor the engineers that are keeping the generators running to power the ship as Cobh doesn't have any shore power hook ups. Besides shes just over a month out from her home port, for the USN where deployments can be 6 months+, I doubt the crew were up the walls on board.

I'm not debating the laid in stone security plans, I'm saying that since in reality there are little purposes other than saying "We docked in Cobh", the ship could have found better R+R spots.

kub

I do not intend to sound like a smart arse and i have no issues whatsoever about this ship being in Cobh, each to his own and that.

But my query is this, i understand that the Irish Military is an aid to the civil power i.e Gardai when necessary. I noted that a poster mentioned that the Navy are keeping other boats away from this craft on the water side.

So what sort of powers do the navy have, my own understanding with regard to their army colleagues on land is that when dealing with the public their powers are more or less the same as a security man, not much in that case. Or am i incorrect?

Is there Gardai on the Navy boats also?

Then this leads me to another query, if God forbid one of the crew of that ship did shoot dead an Irish citizen whom he figured as a threat, would the Gardai have to arrest him/ her and they would face charges?

sparky42

kub wrote: »

I do not intend to sound like a smart arse and i have no issues whatsoever about this ship being in Cobh, each to his own and that.

But my query is this, i understand that the Irish Military is an aid to the civil power i.e Gardai when necessary. I noted that a poster mentioned that the Navy are keeping other boats away from this craft on the water side.

So what sort of powers do the navy have, my own understanding with regard to their army colleagues on land is that when dealing with the public their powers are more or less the same as a security man, not much in that case. Or am i incorrect?

Is there Gardai on the Navy boats also?

Then this leads me to another query, if God forbid one of the crew of that ship did shoot dead an Irish citizen whom he figured as a threat, would the Gardai have to arrest him/ her and they would face charges?

Don't know about what powers the Navy have, they could probably just force any boat away, but in terms of a US sailor shooting somebody (God Forbid) I'm betting there would be levels of response based on what the situation is (ie how threatening the situation)

the_syco

Since the Irish security forces have shown that they couldn't stop an old Irish woman hitting the Americans C-40, I'd say the Americans aren't taking any chances. I hope no crusties decide to ram the ship with a boat!

sparky42

the_syco wrote: »

Since the Irish security forces have shown that they couldn't stop an old Irish woman hitting the Americans C-40, I'd say the Americans aren't taking any chances. I hope no crusties decide to ram the ship with a boat!

What security was even at Shannon back then? As to Crusties ramming it, short of carrying explosives (and avoiding getting shot) all they would do is break their boat and ding the paint work on the Leyete Gulf. An Airplane is a far more delicate piece of equipment than a Cruiser.

Rhys Essien

Sad irony is that when the Russian destroyer called into Cobh in 2012,it was open to the public.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80565204

sparky42

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Sad irony is that when the Russian destroyer called into Cobh in 2012,it was open to the public.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80565204

Wide open, and as I said I think the French/Dutch/Germany/Belgian ships that pay visits have tours as well (at the very least they don't have the security teams).

Madme

Anyone know how long its in for, wondering is it worth a trip down?

deRanged

leaves Friday at 15:00.

mikeym

sparky42 wrote: »

As opposed to going to a US/NATO secured Harbour and being able to stand down to a lower level of security? The 20-30 people on security operations aren't getting much R+R manning machine guns looking at the Irish navy in Ribs, nor the engineers that are keeping the generators running to power the ship as Cobh doesn't have any shore power hook ups. Besides shes just over a month out from her home port, for the USN where deployments can be 6 months+, I doubt the crew were up the walls on board.

I'm not debating the laid in stone security plans, I'm saying that since in reality there are little purposes other than saying "We docked in Cobh", the ship could have found better R+R spots.

They do have pretty big duty watches and yes they do armed sentries on the upperdecks but they also have a large crew too. (300 bods)

Their a paranoid bunch them lot.

Red Nissan

kub wrote: »

what sort of powers do the navy have, my own understanding with regard to their army colleagues on land is that when dealing with the public their powers are more or less the same as a security man, not much in that case. Or am i incorrect?

Don't know. Probably not. The Irish Navy in this instance are unlikely armed and are in ribs. Holstered small arms maybe. [normally].

They probably do have a stand to as a normal military procedure, the US ship would have a faster and more lethal response, making anything the Irish Navy could provide somewhat mute.

If a Fire Chief asks one to move, one can tell him to PO, similarly one can push aside armed Naval Personnel, but then they would or could evoke their 'Garda Powers' a normal three star private in the army outranks most Gardaí ~ so, what starts off as a courtesy could become lethal force, even more than the Gardaí could apply.

However, it is the Gardaí's 'Job' and they follow that FIRST, push them and they have more powers and less restraints than the Gardaí.