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Overtime Owed, Timeframe and Concerns over Redundancy

  • 09-04-2014 1:46pm
    #1
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭


    To keep it very sweet so the company cannot be identified:

    My partner has been working for a small (but expanding) company and through their own inefficient management of staff, he has clocked up (as far as today from when he started late last year) a total of 400+ hours overtime (I know the exact figure). He gets a miniscule percentage of this back weekly in his wages as they can't afford to pay him what he actually works. Because of the bad structure, he usually ends up working the total hours he is paid for plus the percentage of hours in overtime owed, so the amount of hours is going up (albeit slower than before).

    He is there on a scheme whereby Social Welfare have given the company a grant towards his wages for the first year. He has been a valuable asset to the company, made serious improvements to the way things are run and has become extremely well-known among clients. He is also relied on heavily to correct mistakes and seems to be the go-to man for emergencies and problems (for staff as well as management).

    The boss has recently started giving him grief over minor things that he had no issue with previously (eg him refusing to work on his day off, him asking for days off for my maternity appointments, his use of the work phone to call me and let me know when he will be home - since he can work 16+ hours per day with no rostered end-time) and got quite aggressive with him over the phone while in work over how his job performance wasn't up to scratch. He will be with the company one year in August, and that is when the Social Welfare cease subsidising his wages.

    We're both deeply concerned that he is going to try and get my partner to leave, either by redundancy or forcing my partner to quit in a rage.
    He is owed in the region of 4.5k for the hours overtime based on his hourly wage, and we're concerned that he will have to battle to get this back. It's a fight to even get one day off with even months notice! We're also wondering if any sort of redundancy package would have to be offered if the company did decide to suddenly let him go in August.
    Any ideas?


Comments

  • #2
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    I remember a thread from you before on this. The hours owed have been allowed to build up to a ridiculous amount and it's unlikely at this stage that you'll get them back. The company has been taking the piss and your partner has let them. What approaches to the company has your partner made and do they agree that these hours are owed? A company has a responsibility to pay the employees and this money would still be owed even if he left or was made redundant. However, that's only the case if they agree.


  • #3
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    No Pants wrote: »
    I remember a thread from you before on this. The hours owed have been allowed to build up to a ridiculous amount and it's unlikely at this stage that you'll get them back. The company has been taking the piss and your partner has let them. What approaches to the company has your partner made and do they agree that these hours are owed? A company has a responsibility to pay the employees and this money would still be owed even if he left or was made redundant. However, that's only the case if they agree.

    Its officially recorded on their system and hes gotten a print out for proof. He handed in his notice about two months ago and the boss begged him to hold off as he had more staff starting and was organising a new roster. It seemed to work for like a week or two but now its back to the same old and it seems to be down to two certain staff members and their ties to the boss.


  • #4
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Its officially recorded on their system and hes gotten a print out for proof.
    That's positive. I would approach payroll and ask them quite firmly when they plan on clearing the balance.

    I claim my extra time to the client and take it as time-in lieu. I don't let it build up though as you run the risk of someone noticing it and trying it on. I take half days and the like as frequently as I can.


  • #5
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    No Pants wrote: »
    That's positive. I would approach payroll and ask them quite firmly when they plan on clearing the balance.

    I claim my extra time to the client and take it as time-in lieu. I don't let it build up though as you run the risk of someone noticing it and trying it on. I take half days and the like as frequently as I can.

    The business isnt that big. The boss approves wages. He cant really take days off but is trying to do so. Problem is there are always mess ups when he is off and it means overtime to clean up the mess!


  • #6
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Mandatory redundancy only starts after 2 years in one company so he'd not be liable for it.


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  • #7
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    The business isnt that big. The boss approves wages. He cant really take days off but is trying to do so. Problem is there are always mess ups when he is off and it means overtime to clean up the mess!
    The boss still needs to pay his employees. At least it's logged on their payroll system, so the company has acknowledged it. From the number of hours that your partner has racked up, plus the fact that he can't take any time off, suggests that the boss needs to hire another staff member. How long has this time been racking up?


  • #8
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    No Pants wrote: »
    The boss still needs to pay his employees. At least it's logged on their payroll system, so the company has acknowledged it. From the number of hours that your partner has racked up, plus the fact that he can't take any time off, suggests that the boss needs to hire another staff member. How long has this time been racking up?

    Since last september but its only started getting excessive since Xmas. He has said he plans to talk to him about taking a fortnight off paid when I go into labour so that would be 80 hours back plus 20 overtime. It would be a start! Thwy definitely need more staff but hes unwilling.


  • #9
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Since last september but its only started getting excessive since Xmas. He has said he plans to talk to him about taking a fortnight off paid when I go into labour so that would be 80 hours back plus 20 overtime. It would be a start! Thwy definitely need more staff but hes unwilling.
    400 hours is approximately 2.5 months salary. He's worked almost a quarter of a year for free. He needs to agree a plan to pay all this time with the boss. I suggest that he requests that 40 hours be paid as overtime to him every week to allow this to be paid within a quarter.

    This may impact on his tax liability, so maybe you may prefer to get time in lieu for some of it instead. If you do go for some time in lieu, make sure it's understood by the boss that you won't be available as you plan to take a holiday or something.


  • #10
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    No Pants wrote: »
    400 hours is approximately 2.5 months salary. He's worked almost a quarter of a year for free. He needs to agree a plan to pay all this time with the boss. I suggest that he requests that 40 hours be paid as overtime to him every week to allow this to be paid within a quarter.

    This may impact on his tax liability, so maybe you may prefer to get time in lieu for some of it instead. If you do go for some time in lieu, make sure it's understood by the boss that you won't be available as you plan to take a holiday or something.

    Im gonna stress to him again tonight that it needs to be addressed. Boss is being very evasive because he owes all the staff overtime, but my partner's is highest by about 200 hours. Its shocking and I wouldnt stand for it myself but my partner doesnt want to be without a job.


  • #11
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Im gonna stress to him again tonight that it needs to be addressed. Boss is being very evasive because he owes all the staff overtime, but my partner's is highest by about 200 hours. Its shocking and I wouldnt stand for it myself but my partner doesnt want to be without a job.
    That sounds like a business in trouble.


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  • #12
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    No Pants wrote: »
    That sounds like a business in trouble.

    Youd think so but they definitely arent. The man in charge doesnt want to pay it and he thought with the new roster hed whittle away at it and wasnt expecting it to stay so busy! I think hes hoping that he wont have to pay it or staff will let it go!


  • #13
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    Youd think so but they definitely arent. The man in charge doesnt want to pay it and he thought with the new roster hed whittle away at it and wasnt expecting it to stay so busy! I think hes hoping that he wont have to pay it or staff will let it go!
    If staff are let go, he'll still have to pay it. Yet he might try something along those lines. This is why your partner needs to push this now for a timely resolution.


  • #14
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Tell your partner that unless he stands up to his boss he will keep walking on him.
    He should only work 48 hours a week. He should be getting overtime for any hours worked after this. I would tell you partner that you are worried about his health.

    Tell your partner that you and him are going to a solicitor about the hours he is working and about all the money his boss owes him.
    I would say to your partner that unless he stand up for himself you have no option but to move out as you can't put up with the stress any longer.
    At this stage your partner needs to man up.

    The day you get a solicitors appointment you need to ring your partners boss and tell him your partner will not be in today as he taking the day off due to all the hours overtime he has worked.
    I would then tell his boss if your partner has an accident due to the long hours he is working that you will sue him for every cent he has.


  • #15
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    lady 2013 wrote: »
    Tell your partner that unless he stands up to his boss he will keep walking on him.
    He should only work 48 hours a week. He should be getting overtime for any hours worked after this. I would tell you partner that you are worried about his health.

    Tell your partner that you and him are going to a solicitor about the hours he is working and about all the money his boss owes him.
    I would say to your partner that unless he stand up for himself you have no option but to move out as you can't put up with the stress any longer.
    At this stage your partner needs to man up.

    The day you get a solicitors appointment you need to ring your partners boss and tell him your partner will not be in today as he taking the day off due to all the hours overtime he has worked.
    I would then tell his boss if your partner has an accident due to the long hours he is working that you will sue him for every cent he has.

    I appreciate the advice and the seriousness of the situation, but given the fact that he's under stress I don't imagine threatening to move out of our home is going to make him feel any better about himself. As for a solicitor, that is not something we can afford, and I wouldn't go down that route and risk my partner losing the wage he already does get when it could be solved through more mediated means.
    He's not letting his boss walk all over him because he's a pushover, he's letting him walk all over him because he has a baby on the way and would rather get €500 a week than go on the dole. We live in a very small town, quite far from any cities so walking into another job would be next to impossible, especially if he left his current job and initiated a huge legal dispute.


  • #16
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I have just seen your last message here.
    I was not suggesting that you take a legal case against the boss but that you send him a solicitors letter in regards to the money he is currently owed by his boss.
    The reality is that your partner boss won't get rid of him - why would he when he is working 60 hours a week and only getting paid for 40 hours.

    I can understand that you need the money at the moment. At this stage your partner needs to have a serious chat with his boss re the over time he is owed and ask him when is he getting extra staff as that he is entitled to holidays and whats some time off when you have the baby.

    If your partner does not see extra money in his pay or the boss getting extra staff he needs to ring in sick some Monday shortly. He then needs to go to his doctor and get a sick cert for a week. If your partner is away from work for a week his boss will be left to deal with and do all the work.
    When he rings your partner you need to answer the phone and tell his boss he has no voice at the moment to speak to him. I would then say to him that he will be back in work next week and you don't want him calling you again unless it is to let your partner know when his is paying the €4,500 he owes him in overtime.
    I would then tell him to arrange this payment or you will contact your cousin Josephine Feehily ( head of Revenue in Ireland) to arrange a revenue audit for his company.

    Your partner boss is a bully but I am sure he won't want a revenue audit.
    It would be worth giving them a call and telling them that you want to report boss name due to non payment of overtime and therefore he is not paying the correct tax and prsi for his staff.

    Revenue can come into a business premises, ask to see accounts, look at company bank statement, cheque books, company credit cards ect. If they see one cent that can't be accounted for the will ask questions. Once they leave a business they will keep close eye on payments being made on time to them and legally they can call into a business at any stage after this.


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