Changing secondary school in 5th year.

magggiemay

Hi , I am new to boards ..
I am looking advice on how to write a letter to a secondary school. I have a 16 year old son who is very very unhappy in his current secondary school,so much so that it has caused him to suffer from anxiety and depression. He is currently in 5th year but has missed a major amount of days because of this. He has been getting help with his anxiety and depression and it has now been advised that because he so unhappy in school that he change schools.( the one he attends at present is very academic). I am hoping that he will start again in 5th year in September in his new school. I have to write a letter to the new principal detailing why he wants to change schools. My question is this , do i disclose that he is suffering from depression and that is the main reason he wants to leave his present school? Should i say that he has missed a major amount of days from school because of this ? I'm really not sure what to put in the letter so any advice would be greatly appreciated . Thank you

LorMal

magggiemay wrote: »

Hi , I am new to boards ..
I am looking advice on how to write a letter to a secondary school. I have a 16 year old son who is very very unhappy in his current secondary school,so much so that it has caused him to suffer from anxiety and depression. He is currently in 5th year but has missed a major amount of days because of this. He has been getting help with his anxiety and depression and it has now been advised that because he so unhappy in school that he change schools.( the one he attends at present is very academic). I am hoping that he will start again in 5th year in September in his new school. I have to write a letter to the new principal detailing why he wants to change schools. My question is this , do i disclose that he is suffering from depression and that is the main reason he wants to leave his present school? Should i say that he has missed a major amount of days from school because of this ? I'm really not sure what to put in the letter so any advice would be greatly appreciated . Thank you

Hi Maggie

I am going through exactly the same thing. I am sending my son to a private school in Sept (although I can ill afford it) in the hope that a more positive and hopefully nurturing environment will lift him up. My son is doing his JC this year and will be going into 4th year in Sept.
I would not bother telling the Principal anything. It is none of his business. Just a brief note to inform him that your son will not be returning in Sept. Leave this until the very end of this school year to send.
The last thing your son need is being branded 'depressed' - as this may follow him on - or worse still - the Principal might try to intervene (in my experience, they do not have the skills and training to deal with this)
I hope you and your son will be okay - as I hope my own will too. It really sucks the life out of you and is a constant worry.
PM me if you would like to chat more on this
Regards

magggiemay

Thank you LorMal for that advice and yes it is very upsetting to see your child so upset. We have been dealing with this since First year...
The letter i have to write is to the New Principal as we have only decided today that he will change schools. I havn't gotten a place for him yet so i need to formally apply in writing . I'm just not sure what i should state in the letter .

Rubberchikken

I agree with other poster, dont go into details about your sons health.
People can be inclined to judging too quickly.

LorMal

magggiemay wrote: »

Thank you LorMal for that advice and yes it is very upsetting to see your child so upset. We have been dealing with this since First year...
The letter i have to write is to the New Principal as we have only decided today that he will change schools. I havn't gotten a place for him yet so i need to formally apply in writing . I'm just not sure what i should state in the letter .

Hi Maggie
sorry - I misunderstood (and yes we have been dealing with it since First Year too). However my advice would be the same - dont let your son have to deal with 'concerned' teachers in the new school.
My advice would be to make a fresh start for him. He may not show any signs of depression in the new school anyway.
Instead, I would suggest that you write that you do not feel your son is reaching his full potential in his current school. (You might want to hint that there was some bullying - this is a good solid reason for moving school without having to put the spotlight on your son)

LorMal

And I would try to do this face to face rather than (or as well as) letter if you can.

Millem

LorMal wrote: »

And I would try to do this face to face rather than (or as well as) letter if you can.

I would agree. New school will want a reference from old school and will want to know why there was a large number of absences. Did your son do Ty? And are new school and old school non fee paying? If so I think you are only allowed 6 "free" secondary school years but if you have doctors certs then they make allowances.

magggiemay

Yes , i will definitely meet with the new principal face to face , but the procedure first is to write a letter. I have been told that this new school will request a full report from the old school so that,s why i was wondering if i should mention from the beginning about the issues my son has had..
I have a feeling that his present school will have a problem with him moving to the new school. To be fair once the present school found out that he was having major problems attending they couldn't have been more helpful , but the guidance councilor did advise that we should NOT move our son to a new school as he may not get the support there.
My son does not want to go to his present school anymore and after four years i think that maybe he is the best judge of that. I feel i need to give him a chance in this new school and hope for the best.

LorMal

magggiemay wrote: »

Yes , i will definitely meet with the new principal face to face , but the procedure first is to write a letter. I have been told that this new school will request a full report from the old school so that,s why i was wondering if i should mention from the beginning about the issues my son has had..
I have a feeling that his present school will have a problem with him moving to the new school. To be fair once the present school found out that he was having major problems attending they couldn't have been more helpful , but the guidance councilor did advise that we should NOT move our son to a new school as he may not get the support there.
My son does not want to go to his present school anymore and after four years i think that maybe he is the best judge of that. I feel i need to give him a chance in this new school and hope for the best.

Yes I agree with your viewpoint in regards to moving school. Is his depression related to the school in any way? If it started in Ist year, there is likely to be some connection? If he wants to leave, there is probably a link?
I would still keep the application to the new school as general as possible without getting too specific. I would also explain the situation to the current school and ask that the school report does not lable your son?

theLuggage

I have to say I disagree entirely about not disclosing your son's depression to any new school. It will be the place he spends the majority of his day and for a school and the staff in it to look after him properly and appropriately they should be aware of any issues that he has.

It need not be an all singing all dancing production. I would explain to the principal the situation and also the fear of him being branded and see how the discussion goes. You can ask that the information goes no further or maybe to a limited no of people such as tutor, yearhead, chaplain, guidance counsellor etc. If some staff are aware they may keep a closer eye on him settling in. They will be more likely to report on anything they see back to you or back up to the principal, whereas if they are unaware they may not know it's something to be on the lookout for. You can ask that staff not let your son know that they know if you think he would feel better about that.

We would have a no. of students who have a range of mental/emotional issues and in my opinion are better catered for in the school when staff are aware. It doesn't involve branding anyone, we are professionals and behave accordingly. It may mean staff are a bit more lenient at times when it's appropriate, instead of instigating a massive drama if Johnny doesn't have books/homework etc. Or staff are more likely to acknowledge a student on the corridors, making them feel noticed, part of the school etc.

I appreciate the point that your son feels like changing school would be for the best and I think the guidance counsellor's advice goes to show how staff do treat these issues. They are obviously concerned for your son in that he might not get the help where he ends up. That says a lot. Also be careful - your son may feel like he is escaping his depression by a change of scenery but unfortunately these problems doesn't resolve that easily. It could be devastating to him to realise he still is the same person with the same issues elsewhere and again I think a staff that is actively looking out for him would be an asset in that situation

seavill

theLuggage wrote: »

I have to say I disagree entirely about not disclosing your son's depression to any new school. It will be the place he spends the majority of his day and for a school and the staff in it to look after him properly and appropriately they should be aware of any issues that he has.

It need not be an all singing all dancing production. I would explain to the principal the situation and also the fear of him being branded and see how the discussion goes. You can ask that the information goes no further or maybe to a limited no of people such as tutor, yearhead, chaplain, guidance counsellor etc. If some staff are aware they may keep a closer eye on him settling in. They will be more likely to report on anything they see back to you or back up to the principal, whereas if they are unaware they may not know it's something to be on the lookout for. You can ask that staff not let your son know that they know if you think he would feel better about that.

We would have a no. of students who have a range of mental/emotional issues and in my opinion are better catered for in the school when staff are aware. It doesn't involve branding anyone, we are professionals and behave accordingly. It may mean staff are a bit more lenient at times when it's appropriate, instead of instigating a massive drama if Johnny doesn't have books/homework etc. Or staff are more likely to acknowledge a student on the corridors, making them feel noticed, part of the school etc.

I appreciate the point that your son feels like changing school would be for the best and I think the guidance counsellor's advice goes to show how staff do treat these issues. They are obviously concerned for your son in that he might not get the help where he ends up. That says a lot. Also be careful - your son may feel like he is escaping his depression by a change of scenery but unfortunately these problems doesn't resolve that easily. It could be devastating to him to realise he still is the same person with the same issues elsewhere and again I think a staff that is actively looking out for him would be an asset in that situation

Fantastic post, couldn't have put it any better

happywithlife

I would second telling the new principal upfront -you will need a plausible explanation as to all his missed days and reasons for repeating 5th yr. a principal is a professional at the end of the day and won't be making any passing judgements on your son.
Everything the Luggage said is also a huge factor. Your son can be afforded the best possible start in a very discreet way.
Best of luck and hopefully the new school gives your son the fresh start over he is craving

happywithlife

happywithlife wrote: »

I would second telling the new principal upfront -you will need a plausible explanation as to all his missed days and reasons for repeating 5th yr. a principal is a professional at the end of the day and won't be making any passing judgements on your son.
Everything the Luggage said is also a huge factor. Your son can be afforded the best possible start in a very discreet way.
Best of luck and hopefully the new school gives your son the fresh start over he is craving

Just posting to add to this - and to the excellent comment above by theLuggage - and say that if the relevant staff in the new school don't know about your son's depression then it makes it so much harder for them to be of help to him. At least if they know they can be prepared rather than having to find out for themselves and then muddle their way through it.

derb12

I completely agree with the last few posters. Teachers have seen it all before and are capable of subtly handling situations such as depression or anxiety with a student. The worst possible scenario is not knowing that there is something amiss. I had a student who moved to our school in 2nd year and the parents didn't tell us she suffered from anxiety until we wondered why she hadn't turned up for a few days after her first day in school. It didn't end well and I think she has ended up with home-schooling. Had they been more upfront we would have had all the supports ready for her over and above the normal level of support we give to any new student. Very shortsighted of the parents really, and a real shame.
You get one shot at changing schools. One positive well managed change with the year-head/principal/pastoral team onside could be the making of your son. I hope it all works out for him whatever you decide.

DK man

I too think you need to tell new principal. A child with anxiety needs to be in an environment that is understanding and also flexible to allow him to maybe / not be asked to read / to sit in a particular place / to miss a class because he is not feeling well. / to help deflect attention away from a child who is a bit uneasy etc. a lot of anxiety is brought on by a fear that others will find out that there is a problem

It would be important that a school knows a little bit about the difficulties that the child has experienced so they can be ready to support the child as best they can.

I hope this works out well for him - poor fellow

LorMal

theLuggage wrote: »

I have to say I disagree entirely about not disclosing your son's depression to any new school. It will be the place he spends the majority of his day and for a school and the staff in it to look after him properly and appropriately they should be aware of any issues that he has.

It need not be an all singing all dancing production. I would explain to the principal the situation and also the fear of him being branded and see how the discussion goes. You can ask that the information goes no further or maybe to a limited no of people such as tutor, yearhead, chaplain, guidance counsellor etc. If some staff are aware they may keep a closer eye on him settling in. They will be more likely to report on anything they see back to you or back up to the principal, whereas if they are unaware they may not know it's something to be on the lookout for. You can ask that staff not let your son know that they know if you think he would feel better about that.

We would have a no. of students who have a range of mental/emotional issues and in my opinion are better catered for in the school when staff are aware. It doesn't involve branding anyone, we are professionals and behave accordingly. It may mean staff are a bit more lenient at times when it's appropriate, instead of instigating a massive drama if Johnny doesn't have books/homework etc. Or staff are more likely to acknowledge a student on the corridors, making them feel noticed, part of the school etc.

I appreciate the point that your son feels like changing school would be for the best and I think the guidance counsellor's advice goes to show how staff do treat these issues. They are obviously concerned for your son in that he might not get the help where he ends up. That says a lot. Also be careful - your son may feel like he is escaping his depression by a change of scenery but unfortunately these problems doesn't resolve that easily. It could be devastating to him to realise he still is the same person with the same issues elsewhere and again I think a staff that is actively looking out for him would be an asset in that situation

Unfortunately my experience as a parent of a son with depression runs contrary to your advice here. I have found both his primary and secondary schools have been very poor in response to the issue. I note you are a teacher and that you post has been supported by a number of other teachers here.
Have teachers any formal training in dealing with this issue? I have found them to be generally sympathetic but ill informed and amateurish in their approach. In fact, on a number of occasions, a couple of his teachers have made the situation very much worse through bungling interventions. The one thing I have noticed over the years is that most teachers tend to believe that they know best and it is very difficult to persuade them otherwise. A HDip in Education does not make you an expert on these issues.
I am sure you are a fantastic teacher but your statement that 'we are professionals and behave accordingly' is not universal by any means. Many are professional, a minority are frankly amateur but they can be devastating in their effect.
I think this parent is worried about the potential negative reaction she might receive from the new school if she admits the problem. unfortunately, she is right to be worried. In my experience, this can lead to her son being placed on a never ending "waiting list"....as happened to us a few times until we realised what was happening. Despite your view from the Staff Room, many schools are not as enlightened as you might think.

evolving_doors

LorMal wrote: »

Unfortunately my experience as a parent of a son with depression runs contrary to your advice here. I have found both his primary and secondary schools have been very poor in response to the issue. I note you are a teacher and that you post has been supported by a number of other teachers here.
Have teachers any formal training in dealing with this issue? I have found them to be generally sympathetic but ill informed and amateurish in their approach. In fact, on a number of occasions, a couple of his teachers have made the situation very much worse through bungling interventions. The one thing I have noticed over the years is that most teachers tend to believe that they know best and it is very difficult to persuade them otherwise. A HDip in Education does not make you an expert on these issues.
I am sure you are a fantastic teacher but your statement that 'we are professionals and behave accordingly' is not universal by any means. Many are professional, a minority are frankly amateur but they can be devastating in their effect.
I think this parent is worried about the potential negative reaction she might receive from the new school if she admits the problem. unfortunately, she is right to be worried. In my experience, this can lead to her son being placed on a never ending "waiting list"....as happened to us a few times until we realised what was happening. Despite your view from the Staff Room, many schools are not as enlightened as you might think.

I agree that at the end of the we have to defer to the wishes of the parents. In my experience though the outcomes are numerous so I couldn't say for certain if there is a right or wrong course of action for every student ... student who's parents are in every second day asking what we are doing to help their son with a certain issue ... then there's parents who just don't want any attention to their sons problems. Who's right? who knows really. Although with depression I think some of the staff do need to be made aware.

Teachers indeed are not trained in counselling (and 'meddling teachers' can do harm) but I don't think any teacher here has discussed intervening in treatment , my reading of the responses is that we need to be made aware so that we can refer things on to trained specialists. I'm aware of two cases this year that the outcome could have been very different when students didn't show up to class, teachers were made aware just to keep an eye over certain students... so something as simple as "was john in the last class lads, he's late..." ended up potentially saving a life. No in depth details were given to teachers... they were just 'made aware' that they needed to be mindful.

It is a growing area for concern but from my 'limited' experience teachers would prefer to refer things up the chain rather than intervene. I'm primarily trained to teach a subject, but I am also in loco parentis whether I like it or not, so for me even very limited knowledge can go a long way to ensuring students feel safe.

LorMal

Armelodie wrote: »

I agree that at the end of the we have to defer to the wishes of the parents. In my experience though the outcomes are numerous so I couldn't say for certain if there is a right or wrong course of action for every student ... student who's parents are in every second day asking what we are doing to help their son with a certain issue ... then there's parents who just don't want any attention to their sons problems. Who's right? who knows really. Although with depression I think some of the staff do need to be made aware.

Teachers indeed are not trained in counselling (and 'meddling teachers' can do harm) but I don't think any teacher here has discussed intervening in treatment , my reading of the responses is that we need to be made aware so that we can refer things on to trained specialists. I'm aware of two cases this year that the outcome could have been very different when students didn't show up to class, teachers were made aware just to keep an eye over certain students... so something as simple as "was john in the last class lads, he's late..." ended up potentially saving a life. No in depth details were given to teachers... they were just 'made aware' that they needed to be mindful.

It is a growing area for concern but from my 'limited' experience teachers would prefer to refer things up the chain rather than intervene. I'm primarily trained to teach a subject, but I am also in loco parentis whether I like it or not, so for me even very limited knowledge can go a long way to ensuring students feel safe.

That is very fair and your points are very well made. I agree that a watchful eye can be very helpful indeed.
I advised the OP not to inform the school prior to getting her son accepted into the school as I have found that it can (a) prevent him getting a place in the school and (b) being labelled or stigmatised by a well meaning but clumsy administration.
As I said, most teachers are good. However, I have had the experience of my happy and well balanced little 9 year old son slowly turning into a nervous, withdrawn and depressed 15 year old through the actions of the education system here. So now I find it very difficult to trust. Until teachers accept the principal that bad teachers should be fired (like badly performimg workers in private industry) then there will always be damage caused to pupils. I fear the unions would never let that happen because, despite what teachers say, it is the teacher that comes first, not the pupil.

theLuggage

Just to add to my original post, definitely not trained to deal with the range of issues that students have these days and as Aremelodie says would be referring anything out of my scope up the chain. I do think teachers being aware and on the look out is helpful in that regard and from my experience teachers are usually more comfortable passing things up to those who are trained. I know I am, I would never try to intervene in issues where I'm out of my depth, you never know the damage you can do or what is right or wrong way to say things.

For some students knowing that the teachers care and are looking out for you, can mean a lot as we are in loco parentis. I would hate to think a child with issues felt no one in school cared at all.

I do agree that some teachers know no bounds and think they have the right to intervene and do so. That is inappropriate and I have to say as a parent I would be straight on to principal, board of management etc if I think a teacher was stepping way out of the boundaries and making a delicate situation worse. I'm sorry LorMal that it happened to your son in both schools, as I do think (maybe naively) that teachers genuinely have the best of intentions with regards to students. As you say though we are certainly not qualified to handle everything and shouldn't when it's beyond our training.

LorMal

theLuggage wrote: »

Just to add to my original post, definitely not trained to deal with the range of issues that students have these days and as Aremelodie says would be referring anything out of my scope up the chain. I do think teachers being aware and on the look out is helpful in that regard and from my experience teachers are usually more comfortable passing things up to those who are trained. I know I am, I would never try to intervene in issues where I'm out of my depth, you never know the damage you can do or what is right or wrong way to say things.

For some students knowing that the teachers care and are looking out for you, can mean a lot as we are in loco parentis. I would hate to think a child with issues felt no one in school cared at all.

I do agree that some teachers know no bounds and think they have the right to intervene and do so. That is inappropriate and I have to say as a parent I would be straight on to principal, board of management etc if I think a teacher was stepping way out of the boundaries and making a delicate situation worse. I'm sorry LorMal that it happened to your son in both schools, as I do think (maybe naively) that teachers genuinely have the best of intentions with regards to students. As you say though we are certainly not qualified to handle everything and shouldn't when it's beyond our training.

I agree that most teachers are very well meaning (and many are very skilled and highly professional) - I hope I am not being harsh. You come across as caring and very professional teacher.
I am bitter, I suppose. The Head Teacher in the Primary School (a Nun) handled a delicate situation with my son so badly (and in public) that it has caused serious long term damage - and his own class teacher stood by passively. She did this without even informing us in advance or seeking our permission. Neither she, nor the class teacher, had the first clue how to deal with my son in the circumstances - but this did not stop them playing the amateur psychologist, plus judge and jury. And I could not persuade them that they were wrong - I was just the over protective parent in their eyes. They devastated my little boy....

teacherhead

LorMal, sorry to hear about your experience i hope your son gets well soon.

I'm afraid i cant agree with your advice re not telling the school, even if its only the principal and dp that know it is so important that the school is informed. Teachers aren't trained to deal with this stuff but they are the ones who are in contact with the child all day long, they may be the only ones there if there is a critical incident.

you point out that the amateur approach is unhelpful, unfortunately the professional support for schools, students and families isn't there.

the HSE policy seems to be medicate and return to school. Schools have to manage the situations they find themselves in. Informed decisions about referral or even simply alerting parents are preferable in my view.

Pixie Chief

I too have experienced very similar situations - eldest doing leaving cert independently this year and has never been happier or more focused despite my reservations. Won't get into all that but will just ask - if the new school would be minded to not admit your son because of those issues, do you really want him going there?

LorMal

teacherhead wrote: »

LorMal, sorry to hear about your experience i hope your son gets well soon.

I'm afraid i cant agree with your advice re not telling the school, even if its only the principal and dp that know it is so important that the school is informed. Teachers aren't trained to deal with this stuff but they are the ones who are in contact with the child all day long, they may be the only ones there if there is a critical incident.

you point out that the amateur approach is unhelpful, unfortunately the professional support for schools, students and families isn't there.

the HSE policy seems to be medicate and return to school. Schools have to manage the situations they find themselves in. Informed decisions about referral or even simply alerting parents are preferable in my view.

You are seeing it from the schools point of view - all teachers do, in my experience. They see it from an administrative perspective.
You cannot know what it is like to have to pick up the pieces.

Pwpane

LorMal wrote: »

You are seeing it from the schools point of view - all teachers do, in my experience. They see it from an administrative perspective.
You cannot know what it is like to have to pick up the pieces.

But you're seeing it only from your perspective - there are more than one.

A teacher needs to maintain discipline within a class. While trying to maintain discipline he/she may say or do something that would be minor to an ordinary student but could be devastating to a student with a serious mental issue.

It is totally unfair to a teacher to leave them ignorant of the situation and then blame them for seriously upsetting the student. I've been there. The parent ended up 'picking up the pieces' after a very minor incident that would not have occurred at all if I had had any inkling. It made me very angry that both the student and I had been put in that situation.

It could all have been simply and quietly avoided.

Rubberchikken

LorMal has said exactly what i wanted to. I said in my previous post that i didnt think it would be a good idea to inform
school of the students mental health issues.

While teachers may be 'professional', too many of them are judgemental, condesending and too fond of gossiping.

I would, if i were the Op, be very careful who i spoke to and would refuse to send my child to a school that wasnt open-minded and inclusive