Got this call from a Garda yesterday

simplybam

Hi all,

Apologies in advance since this could get a bit drawn out, but I'll try my best to keep it as short as possible.

I recently applied for a character reference at my local Gardai station.

Yesterday I received a call from a very friendly officer from that station, asking me if I knew that there's a bench warrant out for me. In genuine surprise I stated that I in fact didn't know about that.

After some back and forth it turned out that this was over a speeding ticket I received back around July last year. I missed the deadline to pay it by a few days and haven't heard about it since.

Now I was away on holiday in New Zealand for a month at the beginning of the year, duting which time I received a registered letter, which must have been the summons to appear in court. However, by the time I returned home and went to the delivery office, the letter had been 'returned to sender' (I only worked out yesterday that this must have been the summons, since I haven't received any other mail regarding this incident).

The very friendly Garda from my local station made some inquiries on my behalf and called me back to tell me that the Garda who initiated the whole bench warrant issue won't be back on duty till Friday. He also told me not to worry about anything and he'll get in touch again with the relevant person on Friday and then let me know what'll be happening.

Now my issue is that until Friday at least I could be arrested at any time - if I understand the whole bench warrant thing correctly.

Now I am in no way trying to avoid paying the fine. I just missed the deadline to pay it in the first place and then never received the summons (which I can prove, since I was out of the country at the time). Considering that the officer involved with the warrant is not on duty again till Friday, is there any way I can avoid being arrested whenever I happen to get into the next random check point or similar?

Thanks for any advice

Ken.

There's only one answer to your question. Don't leave your house till Friday.

coylemj

It's unlikely that you'll be arrested simply when stopped at a traffic checkpoint but if you got hauled in for drunk and disorderly or something similar then it's pretty likely that the bench warrant would appear on the radar and you'd be brought to the next sitting of the local district court.

The standard procedure for your situation is that you first get a solicitor, then he/she will talk to the Garda who got the bench warrant, arrange for both of you to meet the Garda outside the local district court at a date in the very near future, the Garda will formally arrest you and you will be brought in front of the judge. At that stage your solicitor will explain the issue with you not turning up and it might be helpful if you had a friend or family member in court in case the judge sets bail with an independent surety for the next hearing of the case if it's going to be adjourned though for a traffic offence and given that you presented yourself to the gardai rather than them knocking down your door in the middle of the night, you will probably get bail on your own surety.

The important thing is that in this situation you definitely need a solicitor to do the talking.

simplybam

So it doesn't make any difference that the only reason why I missed the court date was that I didn't know about it? And I can prove I didn't know about it since I was out of the country on holiday and I have the tickets and all.

If I had known about it I would have turned up and paid it. It was originally only an € 80 fine and as I said I went to the post office to pay it, but it was past the deadline by then.

Why do I need a solicitor to go to court and pay a speeding fine? Isn't that overkill?

nuckeythompson

I have been this situation before. If you did not receive the summons they are most likely trying to serve the reissued one. They must serve this within 2 weeks of the court date.
If they do not serve the summons they cannot proceed with the court.
A bench warrant is issued if you have been summonsed and did not attend the court. This is often done by registered letter (never sign for one of these as it will allow them to proceed with the court).
In your case I would I would contact a solicitor and they will most likely tell you to let them do their job as in serving it. They may ask you to come down for a chat. Thats when they will serve you and it may have an effect on your trip. Your solicitor can deal with them on your behalf. You can always ask who lives with you not to accept anything from any garda which they are within their right to refuse , one reason for refusing is that they would not see you for the forthnight

Needs Must

A solicitor will put your account to the court better than you and will be better versed in the workings of a court room. A solicitor is good advice.;)

Ken.

You are going to be arrested. Most people would go to pieces in those circumstances. Better to have someone speaking for you to be on the safe side. Your objective needs to be to get out of custody as soon as possible.

Pat Mustard

simplybam wrote: »

Why do I need a solicitor to go to court and pay a speeding fine? Isn't that overkill?

If you are considering making legal argument to the effect that there was a defect in service, it would be sensible to retain a solicitor. A local district court practitioner will know the law and know the judge.

January

simplybam wrote: »

So it doesn't make any difference that the only reason why I missed the court date was that I didn't know about it? And I can prove I didn't know about it since I was out of the country on holiday and I have the tickets and all.

If I had known about it I would have turned up and paid it. It was originally only an € 80 fine and as I said I went to the post office to pay it, but it was past the deadline by then.

Why do I need a solicitor to go to court and pay a speeding fine? Isn't that overkill?

But you're not going to court to pay a speeding fine, it's past that stage now, regardless of whether you knew about the date or not. You need to engage a solicitor, gather all your documents from when you were away and the notice from your registered letter and bring them to a solicitor.

Hunter Mahan

The way you are talking about fines, are you sure it's not a penal warrant?

Homer

But you didn't try to pay it? You claim you didn't know what the registered letter was in your original post? Then in a later post you claim you went to pay it but it was beyond the date for payment? Which was it?

The_Mask

Head for the mountains and camp out, living off the land till Friday...

coylemj

simplybam wrote: »

Why do I need a solicitor to go to court and pay a speeding fine? Isn't that overkill?

Did the Garda use the actual term 'bench warrant' - or was it just a 'warrant'?

A bench warrant is an order to the Gardai to arrest you and haul you before the court, a penal warrant is issued after you've been convicted and fined and it tells the Gardai to collect the fine or in default (if you refuse or can't pay), to lodge you in the local prison for a period specified in the warrant.

If it's a bench warrant then you need to take it seriously as per my post (#3) above. If it's just a penal warrant then you need to find out how much the fine is and arrange to meet the local warrants officer and pay it. Although the time limit is up, they will typically accept the payment as I believe they are obliged to do, even if you only produce the cash when you arrive at the gates of the prison.

BaronVon

Before you go engaging a solicitor, ring the Guard who's dealing with the case. He can give you the correct information about what is going on exactly, and if he is satisfied with your account of what happened, he may be in a position to cancel the warrant, thereby saving you a few quid.

coylemj

infacteh wrote: »

Before you go engaging a solicitor, ring the Guard who's dealing with the case. He can give you the correct information about what is going on exactly, and if he is satisfied with your account of what happened, he may be in a position to cancel the warrant, thereby saving you a few quid.

Doesn't that leave the system wide open to corruption?

What you're basically saying is that if the OP 'talks nicely' to the Garda with the warrant, he can make it go away - or what exactly are you suggesting?

Pro Hoc Vice

infacteh wrote: »

Before you go engaging a solicitor, ring the Guard who's dealing with the case. He can give you the correct information about what is going on exactly, and if he is satisfied with your account of what happened, he may be in a position to cancel the warrant, thereby saving you a few quid.

A Garda can not cancel a bench warrant, if a Garda did he would be in contempt of court. Only a Judge can cancel a warrant.

rizzodun

I had a Garda walk into my job one mornin years ago and ask for me. He then told me I had a bench warrant out against me (won't go into why, not anything bad). It turned out I had missed a court summons, it was never delivered so judge issued warrant. The Garda told me he could lift me and hold me until court in a few hours or meet him at the steps of the courthouse at 11. Needless to say I met him at the steps, we both went in, I put my case to the judge that I didn't receive the summons and that's why I didn't turn up, that the Garda had informed me that morning of the warrant. Judge accepted my excuse, and we settled on a date to revisit the matter. I didn't have time to get my solicitor sorted, and went on my own, I had no problems.

If you explain to the judge regarding the whole situation, and are willing to show for whatever the case is, plus the Garda backing you up, I doubt you'll have much of an issue, it might even be put off to be heard on a later date you know about.

MayoSalmon

Slightly OT but......What a incredible waste of time this is over a poxy speeding fine.

JustAddWater

ken wrote: »

There's only one answer to your question. Don't leave your house till Friday.

So to not get arrested, put yourself under house arrest! ... Nice!

simplybam

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

The way you are talking about fines, are you sure it's not a penal warrant?

Homer wrote: »

But you didn't try to pay it? You claim you didn't know what the registered letter was in your original post? Then in a later post you claim you went to pay it but it was beyond the date for payment? Which was it?

coylemj wrote: »

Did the Garda use the actual term 'bench warrant' - or was it just a 'warrant'?

A bench warrant is an order to the Gardai to arrest you and haul you before the court, a penal warrant is issued after you've been convicted and fined and it tells the Gardai to collect the fine or in default (if you refuse or can't pay), to lodge you in the local prison for a period specified in the warrant.

If it's a bench warrant then you need to take it seriously as per my post (#3) above. If it's just a penal warrant then you need to find out how much the fine is and arrange to meet the local warrants officer and pay it. Although the time limit is up, they will typically accept the payment as I believe they are obliged to do, even if you only produce the cash when you arrive at the gates of the prison.

The Garda from my local station who called me specifically said 'bench warrant' I did get the original speeding fine in the post. It gave me 56 days to pay the fine at the post office. That was back around August. By the time I went to the post office it was 2 or 3 days past the 56 day period, so the post office didn't accept the payment.

I went on holiday in mid-January for 4 weeks. During this time I received a registered letter. My flatmate told me about it when I returned. I went to the delivery office with the note but the letter had by then been returned to sender - they only keep domestic registered mail for 5 working days, or thereabouts.

I didn't know at the time what the registered letter was about. It wasn't until the phone call a couple of days ago, that I could connect the dots and figure out that this must have been the summons.

Hope that clears some things up.

Valetta

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Slightly OT but......What a incredible waste of time this is over a poxy speeding fine.

That is the fault of the OP, not the legal system.

simplybam

Valetta wrote: »

That is the fault of the OP, not the legal system.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I tried to pay the fine before it ever got to court. My payment wasn't accepted because it was past the 56-day-deadline.

So a simple amendment to the system that allows you to pay your fine once it's past the deadline but before it actually goes to court can't be that hard to implement. Keep in mind that I tried to pay the fine some time in September and the summons wasn't sent out until late January/early February there should have been a way for me to settle this in the intervening months, but there isn't.

Beano

simplybam wrote: »

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I tried to pay the fine before it ever got to court. My payment wasn't accepted because it was past the 56-day-deadline.

So a simple amendment to the system that allows you to pay your fine once it's past the deadline but before it actually goes to court can't be that hard to implement. Keep in mind that I tried to pay the fine some time in September and the summons wasn't sent out until late January/early February there should have been a way for me to settle this in the intervening months, but there isn't.

It wouldnt be much of a deadline then would it?

Santa Cruz

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Slightly OT but......What a incredible waste of time this is over a poxy speeding fine.

What do you suggest? If he wasn't speeding in the first place it wouldn't have arisen.

MayoSalmon

Santa Cruz wrote: »

What do you suggest? If he wasn't speeding in the first place it wouldn't have arisen.

Its not the speeding I have an issue with.

Its the bureaucratic process that follows.

Basically the whole legal system being engaged over fairly trival offenses.

Zambia

Here the process is simple if you don't pay your deducted the points then the fine is sent to the sheriff to collect it.

Valetta

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Its not the speeding I have an issue with.

Its the bureaucratic process that follows.

Basically the whole legal system being engaged over fairly trival offenses.

Not paying a fine is a trivial offence?

MayoSalmon

Valetta wrote: »

Not paying a fine is a trivial offence?

Yes, it certainly is when we are talking about collecting an €80 fine.

Apprently we jail 20 people a day in Ireland for not paying fines. This is a incredibly inneffective way to deal with trival/minor issues not to mention a major waste of resources.

Lets remember here that this process also purges the fine...the state don't get the €80 euro in this case either way.

Nonsense system

Kristopherus

simplybam wrote: »

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I tried to pay the fine before it ever got to court. My payment wasn't accepted because it was past the 56-day-deadline.

So a simple amendment to the system that allows you to pay your fine once it's past the deadline but before it actually goes to court can't be that hard to implement. Keep in mind that I tried to pay the fine some time in September and the summons wasn't sent out until late January/early February there should have been a way for me to settle this in the intervening months, but there isn't.

Why did'nt you send a cheque to the address that was on the notice?

January

Kristopherus wrote: »

Why did'nt you send a cheque to the address that was on the notice?

It would have been returned as late.

Close shave

Its the Legal Systems fault. All Summons should be delivered/served by hand on the Defendant. Our Legal system allows the Local Garda post the summons throw the letter box or The Irish Court Service will send the Summons by registered post. The problem with this is the Defendant has moved address or The Defendant informs the Courts/Garda that they never received the Summons/Fine
This is why Personal Services of all Legal Documents/Summons is the only way to assure that the Defendant is served.
It was proposed a number of years ago to change the way Summons are served, But the Gardai objected to Civil Servents serving Summons.
Make contact with the Warrant Garda on Friday and tell him you are prepared to pay the fine and that you will go to Court and explain your case to the Judge.
No Brainer for any Judge.

simplybam

Kristopherus wrote: »

Why did'nt you send a cheque to the address that was on the notice?

What's a cheque? Haven't used one of these things in about 25 years!

Close shave wrote: »

Its the Legal Systems fault. All Summons should be delivered/served by hand on the Defendant. Our Legal system allows the Local Garda post the summons throw the letter box or The Irish Court Service will send the Summons by registered post. The problem with this is the Defendant has moved address or The Defendant informs the Courts/Garda that they never received the Summons/Fine
This is why Personal Services of all Legal Documents/Summons is the only way to assure that the Defendant is served.
It was proposed a number of years ago to change the way Summons are served, But the Gardai objected to Civil Servents serving Summons.
Make contact with the Warrant Garda on Friday and tell him you are prepared to pay the fine and that you will go to Court and explain your case to the Judge.
No Brainer for any Judge.

That's kinda the plan at the moment, cheers.

And I do agree that this current system is a ridiculous waste of taxpayers money. Especially at a time when we're being squeezed a wee bi more with every budget for several years running now.

BaronVon

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

A Garda can not cancel a bench warrant, if a Garda did he would be in contempt of court. Only a Judge can cancel a warrant.

My mistake, he may apply to the Judge to have warrant cancelled, due to the doubts surrounding the serving of the summons.

Either way, I don't think it's necessary for the OP to engage the services of a solicitor before he talks to the Guard dealing with it.

hullaballoo

OP, there is a warrant out for your arrest. Be sensible, see a solicitor.

I am a fully trained, practising lawyer and if I knew there was a warrant out for my arrest, I would be straight into my solicitor to get him to deal with it.

People need to learn to be more careful in how they deal with people whose job it is to put other people in jail.

Thread closed.