Improving as an adult- how many hours?

Kurt Godel

I was talking to a coach tonight, who said that an adult should spend 10+ hours a week in the pool to make significant improvements, and can then dial it back to 4 hours or so to maintain that level. I know this question is like "how long is a piece of string?", but I'm curious as to what sort of level adults here are swimming at, and how many hours they swim weekly for that return.

I'm 43, started swimming a couple of years back, and swim about 4 or 5 times a week. PB's (SC) are 100m 1:22, 200m 2:57, 400m 6:04, and 1,850m in 30 mins dead (for what thats worth). I have one coached session (Tri club), and one Masters session (much faster than me). I'd like to be able to do sets off 1:25 per 100m, (and get 100pb <1:10, 400<5:30) but am curious as to what extra time and work that might entail.

mad m

I swim around 4 times a week(1hr each session), usualy do sets of around 2.5k, some drills etc. Saturday I normally do mostly drills and some 100's or a 400m. My times can vary from 1.20 for a 100 to 1.30. If i was too swim 10hrs a week id have no wife:).

hmmmm.....swim=no wife

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:pac:

best for a 400m was 5:55, worst was 6.25.

It can be very hard to keep up the regime. Swimming is a hard sport, I have increased speed over the years but its marginal but at least its going in right direction.

For someone who only took it up couple of years ago your doing very well.

Freddio

Mad_m is right - your times are very good for someone who has taken up swimming later in life.

I wouldn't think even the top masters swimmers in Ireland are doing 10 hours / week, maybe the best in Europe/World are but they have an added advantage in that they would have been top of the game in their youth so their minds and body's know what is involved.

I swim 4/5 sessions per week and like yourself have more than one coach and It has been mentioned to me recently that I should really stick with one, to achieve better results.

There are a few key things I think which will help you get your times down.

1) Train with swimmers who are as good or better than you and keep trying to swim with them.
2) Take at least 2 days rest per week.
3) Work on your stroke in the sense that keep thinking about what you are doing and try not to let it all fall apart when you get tired, if you find you have got sloppy in a set, you just pick it back up, no harm done.
4) Try working on pacing as opposed to going as fast as you can. If you always start fast, you will always get tired quickly and struggle thereafter.
5) Do one anaerobic session per week (pure speed and lactate).
6) Enter galas to have goals and PBs in race conditions to work on.

Hope this helps

mad m

Just to add to some great advise from Freddio.

I found that with doing core workouts had greatly improved my swimming. Some swimmers I know swear on TRX classes and Ive seen results. Swimmers who ive beaten in many times in past doing OW swims started beating me in last year and that was down to doing TRX.

promethius

Kurt Godel wrote: »

I was talking to a coach tonight, who said that an adult should spend 10+ hours a week in the pool to make significant improvements, and can then dial it back to 4 hours or so to maintain that level. I know this question is like "how long is a piece of string?", but I'm curious as to what sort of level adults here are swimming at, and how many hours they swim weekly for that return.

I'm 43, started swimming a couple of years back, and swim about 4 or 5 times a week. PB's (SC) are 100m 1:22, 200m 2:57, 400m 6:04, and 1,850m in 30 mins dead (for what thats worth). I have one coached session (Tri club), and one Masters session (much faster than me). I'd like to be able to do sets off 1:25 per 100m, (and get 100pb <1:10, 400<5:30) but am curious as to what extra time and work that might entail.

10hrs a week is an awful lot of swimming, in ireland you'd have kids doing maybe 13 or so that would be doing ag swimming, some at a national level and doing some land training strength sessions on top of that.

i swim 5 hours (5 sessions per week). It's a mix of basic endurance long sessions, some threshold type stuff and some drills and sprints. i do some masters swimming in the winter and pbs for this year are 29:50 for 50m free free, 1:06 for 100m free and 4:56 (in training, not a race) for 400m. At the masters events in ireland the top few guys would be doing those kind of 10 hour plus weeks, but the rest much less.

unless you've grown up swimming, doing 10 hours a week as an adult is way too much (imo) and you're probably going to end up with a rotator cuff or some other injury.

i do think core works adds a lot to a swimmer too.

respect on your times by the way, excellent for someone new to swimming like that.

Kurt Godel

promethius wrote: »

10hrs a week is an awful lot of swimming, in ireland you'd have kids doing maybe 13 or so that would be doing ag swimming, some at a national level and doing some land training strength sessions on top of that.

i swim 5 hours (5 sessions per week). It's a mix of basic endurance long sessions, some threshold type stuff and some drills and sprints. i do some masters swimming in the winter and pbs for this year are 29:50 for 50m free free, 1:06 for 100m free and 4:56 (in training, not a race) for 400m. At the masters events in ireland the top few guys would be doing those kind of 10 hour plus weeks, but the rest much less.

unless you've grown up swimming, doing 10 hours a week as an adult is way too much (imo) and you're probably going to end up with a rotator cuff or some other injury.

i do think core works adds a lot to a swimmer too.

respect on your times by the way, excellent for someone new to swimming like that.

Great answer promethius, and thanks for putting in tangible numbers. So I guess my question to you is that you are hitting times that I would aspire to hit, while you maintain 5 hours a week. Do you think you could "up" your times by doing 10 hrs a week for (say) a month, and then maintain those better times with 4/5 hrs?

promethius

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Great answer promethius, and thanks for putting in tangible numbers. So I guess my question to you is that you are hitting times that I would aspire to hit, while you maintain 5 hours a week. Do you think you could "up" your times by doing 10 hrs a week for (say) a month, and then maintain those better times with 4/5 hrs?

no, i don't think so to be honest but hard to say for sure since i've never done that level of training before. with swimming, the curve of improvement tapers off with time. So it's relatively easy to make the initial gains, but the quicker you get, the more difficult it is to cut more times. i coach swimming and have seen this a lot and it's always the same.

i think the best way you can continue to improve is to keep swimming with swimmers who are better than you and get pushed, i always try to do this myself, if im the quickest guy there, im not being stretched.

masters gala's are a great thing to be doing. really sharpens you up, you pick up a few tips, and as an old man said to me at one "you can train all you want son, but nothing focuses the mind like being told to get on your marks"

pc11

Kurt Godel wrote: »

I was talking to a coach tonight, who said that an adult should spend 10+ hours a week in the pool to make significant improvements, and can then dial it back to 4 hours or so to maintain that level. I know this question is like "how long is a piece of string?", but I'm curious as to what sort of level adults here are swimming at, and how many hours they swim weekly for that return.

I'm 43, started swimming a couple of years back, and swim about 4 or 5 times a week. PB's (SC) are 100m 1:22, 200m 2:57, 400m 6:04, and 1,850m in 30 mins dead (for what thats worth). I have one coached session (Tri club), and one Masters session (much faster than me). I'd like to be able to do sets off 1:25 per 100m, (and get 100pb <1:10, 400<5:30) but am curious as to what extra time and work that might entail.

I made good improvements with 3-4 hours per week with a tri club, though you are somewhat faster than me. 10+ hours sounds excessive.

kneejerk

Hi Kurt, apologies I am actually asking you for advice here.

I am pretty new to swimming too. I started out last year with an adult group class and then joined in with a tri clubs swimming sessions for improvers.
I am swimming a 400m in around 7.00.

My technique could do with improving and my kick is close to non-existent. I am just wondering if you could advise on how you dropped your times.

Did you get private lessons? and what is your technique like now?

Oh and can you tumble turn?

MojoMaker

That's pretty good progress from just learning last year to a 7:00 400! We may have to find out what 'a couple of years' actually means - I use the expression myself to refer to periods of time up to around 10 years

With swimming the initial gains can be terrific, and then invariably you plateau and go from 20s improvements over 100m in 3 months to fighting for a 5s gain in 12 months. No sport demonstrates the law of diminishing returns quite so well as swimming, but the good news it is relatively easy to operate in maintenance mode and preserve a level of swim fitness once achieved by consistently hitting 2-3 quality sessions a week.

Kurt Godel

kneejerk wrote: »

Hi Kurt, apologies I am actually asking you for advice here.

I am pretty new to swimming too. I started out last year with an adult group class and then joined in with a tri clubs swimming sessions for improvers.
I am swimming a 400m in around 7.00.

My technique could do with improving and my kick is close to non-existent. I am just wondering if you could advise on how you dropped your times.

Did you get private lessons? and what is your technique like now?

Oh and can you tumble turn?

Hi kneejerk,

7min for a 400 is a very good standard if you're only swimming a year. With application I'm sure you can bring that down a lot too. To answer your Q's;

Never had one-on-one lessons (though I'd say they'd be a huge benefit), and I'm only now learning to tumble (badly so far). My technique is better than last year, but loads of room to improve for next year. Kick drills are a must- like you I didn't kick last year and my times suffered.

My biggest improvements came from the first minute of my first group coached lesson. Coach pulled me up after seeing me swim and advised three changes to my stroke, which I applied thereafter. Low-hanging fruit, stuff I'd been doing wrong for ages on my own. So having a good coach look at you swim is a must.

Otherwise, I generally make progress from volume- at least 4 sessions (1 hour) a week, or I start going backwards. 5 if I can help it (2 structured sessions, 2 technique/drills, 1 easy distance swim). I do one Tri group swim a week, and one Masters session with the same coach. If I do 2 sessions a week I get slower,;3 to maintain; 4/5 to get faster.

The Masters session- I am way out of my comfort zone, these are certified fish who turn up. However, it means that I have to really up my game so as not to embarrass myself too much and have them waiting too long while I come in on sets. This session is of huge benefit, for quite a few reasons. Not least, I get to observe how to swim properly, at close quarters, and try to apply that technique to my own. There's a large amount of suffering and swimming through pain in these sessions, but I'm noticing big improvements (hit a 1:17 100m pb a week back, and that was fantasy times for me a few months ago).

So FWIW, volume, coach, technique, and swimming with faster sharks; are what equates to progress for me. It's worth mentioning enjoyment- I love each and every time I'm in the pool or sea, and I get an awful lot of fulfilment from swimming. These are the happy days where things are coming together, and PB's have a way to go yet.

Hope some of that helps, best of luck yourself!:)

kneejerk

Thanks Kurt and Mojomaker.

I will look to join a masters session and up my volumes to see if I can get some more improvement.

When I see masters swimmers with such smooth and effortless technique, I always wonder if it’s possible for someone who began as an adult to ever be that fish-like!

Maybe one on one coaching is the way to go. I will look into it after the summer.

shotgunmcos

Hey knee jerk cannot recommend a good masters session enough. I started swimming a few years ago training for my first tri and would have been thrilled to hit 1:45 pace for 400m in my first year :cool: Well done on that progress!

I've never had 1-1 coaching but have generally swam with a group containing much faster swimmers than I since taking it up and it has really helped. I generally swim on average 3-4 hours per week. I started from scratch in 2008 and I'd be around 5:40 (LC) for 400m when fit these days.

The things that will make you a better swimmer, similar to Kurt's tips..

1. Love swimming! So many training for tris see swimming ass a necessary evil and wonder why they make little progress :rolleyes: It has got to be fun if you are going to stick with it

2. Consistency. Not just consistent sessions but consistent habits. I consistently observe the real swimmers in my group. I consistently keep just one technical point in mind for a session like high elbow, fingers at the catch, glide, roll and notice how that pointchanges when I get tired or when sprinting etc.. I consistently swim. I have my weeks of absence but I mainly hit the pool 2-3 times as week and the lake or river regularly during the summer.

3. Swim with a group. Masters groups usually have a predetermined set and its a fabulous way to get through work. Plus you tend to push yourself more amongst peers

4. Technique. Don't do drills for the sake of drills. Understand what they do and always follow up drills with steady swimming focusing on the point of that drill. Tune into your body. Keep doing the same thing and you will continue to get the same results.

5. Step out of the comfort zone regularly. Try other strokes. Lead out the lane. Challenge yourself with sets.

6. Get feedback on your stroke. I find it just as useful to ask those faster swimmers questions than a coach. Its cheaper and they don't bite! Having as coach give you feedback is great too, if you listen and apply what you learn thousands of times!

All of this will improve to a point!

@Back to the original topic of 10 hours per week. I see the high performance kids doing this and more but that's more or less all they do apart from a few land based sessions.

I've wondered myself if I've plateaued and what improvements one to one stroke coach or bigger volume would yield? I'd imagine bigger volume would obviously just mean hours upon hours of technique. As with adult learners, efficiency is the key problem and there are diminishing returns to increasing volume without stroke correction/development. The high performance kids seem to spent at least half their time doing some sort of drills before they get stuck into work.

10 hours swimming is a bigger investment of time than that when you consider the commute to and from the pool, changing etc..