Existential "crisis" (?)

LegacyUser · 04-04-2014 10:39am #1

I really, really need to get this off my chest. I can talk to friends and my partner about it and they can reassure me and understand and so on, and while they do help, it never extinguishes this feeling I have inside me. Where do I start? I am going to need to vent and also go into details of what I'm thinking about so you can better understand my anxiety. I may trail off and talk about pseudo-philosophical crap but just bare with me and try to understand, I feel stuck

I have become hyper-aware of my own mortality lately. My whole life I never cared about death or dying (except of loved ones of course) and figured I would worry about it later when I need to (rightfully so). But since September of last year, it has completely dominated my life. It dawned on me that one day I will be on my death bed. I will watch my life flash before my eyes, feel my dying breaths slowly leave my body and come to the ultimate realization that I am at the moment all living things EVER come upon. I am dying, I am leaving this world to become one again with the universe like I was before. My body, my brain and heart will cease their bodily functions. All my emotions, thoughts, beliefs, achievements, struggles, questions etc will culminate in their final moment. Everything I have ever lived for will come to an end.

When people - and other living things - die I firmly believe that their energy, their consciousness if you will, simply dissolves into the life around them, back into the Earth. It's only natural to assume so, right? Our bodies decompose and become one with the Earth again. Back to the worms, the birds, the trees, air around you. So too does our consciousness, the thing that makes us alive. I mean, the cosmos we live in is a living, pulsating, inexplicable mass of energy that is alive and forms a singular consciousness that we describe as the universe. Before there was nothing. Just black. Not even black! The concept of black and colours didn't exist then. There was nothing, a concept we can't truly begin to understand.

Then all of a sudden, something happened. Energy. The big bang. The universe was formed. I won't even begin going on about the scale of the universe (again something we will never comprehend or truly grasp), the Earth we live on itself is overwhelming enough as it is.

Billions of years in the making, bring us to the present day. Modern humans and our metropolis cities. Billions of people on the planet. Each and everyone with their own emotions, with their own stories and families, their own desires and beliefs, their struggles, their belongings, their ideas. And each one just another organism. Just another little wiggly organism wiggling about. Born and made from stars over the course of hundreds of thousands of years transformed from tiny little microscopic cells into these full blown "human beings" who can think and reflect on what everything really is. But in honesty we are no different from a load of maggots just wriggling about!

Thousands of years of culture and human development, history, society, religion. Back to hunter gatherers who built Newgrange and their counterparts in Mesoptamia who created writing and spent their days looking at the sun and moon, to an English noble in the 1500s right up to Hitler himself who tried to completely alter the course of human history (I dont need to explain how) and so on.

All of these are irrelevant. It will all die and fade away when we pass on and eventually when our planet dies, then our Sun and then someday, our entire universe too. Back to "nothing".

It's too much for me. The thought of dying frightens me so much. Knowing that there's one thing in life that's certain is dying. The thought of my poor parents, who are getting old now, are going to live out the rest of their lonely days (they're long seperated and long single) at home thinking about their past life and how they've lived it. How that their day is drawing closer and closer until the flame on the candle is blown out.

Every night in bed with my partner I squeeze her so tight because I know that ANY DAY, ANY MOMENT, could be the very last. God, the thought that one day one of us will be dead and the other will have to be all lonesome and miserable as an aul one all by themselves! It's so upsetting

As I type this the seconds tick by. Every second that passes brings us only closer to our inevitable end. I am just going to die and fade away back into the energy of the universe.

These concepts, these feelings thoughts and emotions are so overwhelming. I've been having panic attacks lately. I get very anxious thinking about it. I went for a walk the other day and decided to sit on a bench on a nice sunny day, by the lake. I saw birds, the sun, smelled the fresh air and listened to dogs bark and kids laugh and life just be life. I saw a lot of old people with their grandkids and saw one generation of life being passed on to the next. I just wanted to get up and scream and run up to them and shake and shout to them "WHY ARENT YOU FREAKING OUT!? YOURE GOING TO DIE SOON AHHHH! HEY KIDS YOUR GRANDMOTHER IS GOING TO DIE AND YOU TOO ONE DAY WILL BE IN HER POSITION WITH YOUR GRANDKIDS"

I think I'm going to stop now before I trail off and end up ranting too much. I am just going to leave it at this. Make of it of what you will.

Does anyone know where I'm coming from? I know these feelings are irrational and I should live my life enjoying it instead of freaking out about the fact that I have one because we ever only get ONE and it should not be wasted.

But I can't help it

I just don't know anymore... I hope someone can relate, can understand what I mean and can give advice. Help! (also, I have no money for a therapist)

Merkin · 04-04-2014 11:45am

An awful lot of people fear death and dying, in fact I consider it still quite a taboo topic in contemporary society regardless of its inevitability (although from an anthropological perspective some societies really embrace it - there's a great ethnography by Raymond Firth entitled We the Tikopia which discusses death at length - those he lived with were so comfortable with the thought of dying that they just bury all their dead relatives in their living room so that they can keep them close......yes really!)

I think with anything that causes you angst, confronting your fear, while seeming counterintuitive , is probably the best thing you can do. For that reason I would recommend you read On Death and Dying by Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross which takes a multidisciplinary look at dying (from the perspective of patient, family etc). I think it would be a good start for you to read this and take it from there.

LegacyUser · 04-04-2014 12:06pm

Merkin wrote: »

An awful lot of people fear death and dying, in fact I consider it still quite a taboo topic in contemporary society regardless of its inevitability (although from an anthropological perspective some societies really embrace it - there's a great ethnography by Raymond Firth entitled We the Tikopia which discusses death at length - those he lived with were so comfortable with the thought of dying that they just bury all their dead relatives in their living room so that they can keep them close......yes really!)

I think with anything that causes you angst, confronting your fear, while seeming counterintuitive , is probably the best thing you can do. For that reason I would recommend you read On Death and Dying by Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross which takes a multidisciplinary look at dying (from the perspective of patient, family etc). I think it would be a good start for you to read this and take it from there.

Thanks, any reading material is welcomed. I've been also told that I should read "The Tibetan Book of the Dead". I'm currently finishing a book but I am definitely going to look into books that deal with my issue afterwards. (It doesnt help that I love history and read history books non stop! History is a constant reminder of our mortality

)

The process of dying and death scares me but I know this is something that within the next 50/60/70 years whatever it is that I can learn how to cope with and understand.

But, the concepts of existence and the universe and life are just way too much for me. I don't know why. I know they're concepts I shouldn't try to fully grasp because we as humans never will. We can only speculate and think and accept. But that's just not enough for me. I need to understand what's going on. Why is it going on? What's the purpose? Why are we here? Why am I fully functioning human being that is aware of all of this and has the capacity to think about it and philosophize? I know I'm not MEANT to know or understand but ahhhhh, I dunno anymore.

I know I'm just ranting and talking gobbeldygook at this point but I gotta let it out. I feel like I'm going crazy

Also no idea what happened to the thread title... Should say "crisis"..!

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply

Appreciated

ManOfMystery · 04-04-2014 12:27pm

I've thought many times about the very things you post above, though I'm not having any kind of crisis about them. We are what we are. Life is what it is. It ends for everyone at some point, so we are all in the same boat.

The way I see it, we have 2 options.

1- We can subscribe to a belief that death is not the end; somehow our consciousness will remain intact and we will continue to survive. That can mean Heaven, or it could an absorption back into some cosmic energy like you mention above , or it could be Valhalla, it could be reincarnation, it could be any one of a million different things you'll find in many different belief systems. The important thing - your soul lives on, even if the body ends.

2- We can subscribe to a belief that death IS the end; once the neurons stop firing in our human brains and our body dies, that's it. Blackness. Nothingness. We turn to dust. Our entire consciousness requires our body to function, and without it we are nothing.

Many people find Option 1 comforting. To know your life has not been 'meaningless', and there is something else beyond all this.

Equally, many people find Option 2 liberating. You are not working towards an end goal, you are not constrained by beliefs/guidelines (usually Religion), your life is entirely in your own hands and you have no-one to answer to.

Regardless of what option you subscribe to, the important thing is to live your life NOW.

You are thinking all this is worthless if it ends - why? Do you ever get up on a brilliant Summer's day and go to the beach, and just enjoy the peace and tranquility and sound of the sea? It's not worthless then. Or do you have a hobby you love doing? It's not wortheless then. You have a partner who I assume you have a loving relationship with - should you just forget all that as it will end sometime? No? It's not worthless then. You are enjoying life right now, so don't hinder that by dwelling far too much on what it all might or might not lead to.

Despite what some zealots will tell you, there is absolutely nobody on this planet who can say with 100% proof and certainty what will happen when we die. They might believe something, but they won't know for sure until it happens. The only things you can be sure of are what's in front of you right now, so make the most of your time and enjoy them. If it all ends and turns to blackness, you won't even be aware of it.

Canard · 04-04-2014 12:52pm

I felt compelled to reply because I think about this an awful lot too, but generally shove it to the back of my mind. I thought of a comic I once saw about the topic which I found really comforting at the time, maybe you'll like it too. Link.

The way I look at it is that, at the end of the day, we'll never truly know what's going to happen after we die until it happens. If you're going to live on in some other form of existence - great! (depending on how you feel about that, that is.) If not, well...you won't be around to be sad about it. I'm not sure if that's a good way for everyone to think about it, but I find it somewhat comforting.

LegacyUser · 04-04-2014 1:46pm

ManOfMystery wrote: »

I've thought many times about the very things you post above, though I'm not having any kind of crisis about them. We are what we are. Life is what it is. It ends for everyone at some point, so we are all in the same boat.

The way I see it, we have 2 options.

1- We can subscribe to a belief that death is not the end; somehow our consciousness will remain intact and we will continue to survive. That can mean Heaven, or it could an absorption back into some cosmic energy like you mention above , or it could be Valhalla, it could be reincarnation, it could be any one of a million different things you'll find in many different belief systems. The important thing - your soul lives on, even if the body ends.

2- We can subscribe to a belief that death IS the end; once the neurons stop firing in our human brains and our body dies, that's it. Blackness. Nothingness. We turn to dust. Our entire consciousness requires our body to function, and without it we are nothing.

Many people find Option 1 comforting. To know your life has not been 'meaningless', and there is something else beyond all this.

Equally, many people find Option 2 liberating. You are not working towards an end goal, you are not constrained by beliefs/guidelines (usually Religion), your life is entirely in your own hands and you have no-one to answer to.

Regardless of what option you subscribe to, the important thing is to live your life NOW.

You are thinking all this is worthless if it ends - why? Do you ever get up on a brilliant Summer's day and go to the beach, and just enjoy the peace and tranquility and sound of the sea? It's not worthless then. Or do you have a hobby you love doing? It's not wortheless then. You have a partner who I assume you have a loving relationship with - should you just forget all that as it will end sometime? No? It's not worthless then. You are enjoying life right now, so don't hinder that by dwelling far too much on what it all might or might not lead to.

Despite what some zealots will tell you, there is absolutely nobody on this planet who can say with 100% proof and certainty what will happen when we die. They might believe something, but they won't know for sure until it happens. The only things you can be sure of are what's in front of you right now, so make the most of your time and enjoy them. If it all ends and turns to blackness, you won't even be aware of it.

I definitely subscribe to Option 1. I can't see it any other way. Of course we continue on after we die. Now whether or not this is reincarnation or an afterlife or simply our energy and atoms being retransferred onto the living world is a different thing, but I dont believe dying is the end.

So in a way, that's comforting. Apart of me is almost ready to just embrace that fact. Be happy that I am a living part of the universe and when I die I will continue to be so - just under a different form. But, it stops short just there. The fact that I am living proof of the universe and that I'm going to continue on and on forever and ever for infinity (at least until it all ends if it ever ends!) also freaks me out.

It's a conundrum. I don't want to die yet I don't want to live forever. Both prospects are terrifying and both are (imo) absolutely inevitable.

I just can't stop thinking about the scale of human history and humanity.

Canard wrote: »

I felt compelled to reply because I think about this an awful lot too, but generally shove it to the back of my mind. I thought of a comic I once saw about the topic which I found really comforting at the time, maybe you'll like it too. Link.

The way I look at it is that, at the end of the day, we'll never truly know what's going to happen after we die until it happens. If you're going to live on in some other form of existence - great! (depending on how you feel about that, that is.) If not, well...you won't be around to be sad about it. I'm not sure if that's a good way for everyone to think about it, but I find it somewhat comforting.

That comic was lovely, thanks for that! It definitely does hit the nail on the head. It's just the worst thing about this anxiety lately is that I know it's irrational, I know the answers (well, not so much answers as it is acceptance of life) yet I still can't stop these panic attacks. They haven't been so bad the past week - maybe I'm starting to chill out - but there has literally been moments where my partner went to bed and I stayed up for an hour on the couch with my head buried in my knees, rocking back and forth, on the verge of tears! Ridiculous I know, but it just drives me insane. I want it to stop

Other times I just get really panicky and short of breath and nervous and can't think clearly. Maybe I just need time for this to blow over and sometime to reflect, but this has been going on for 7 months. Doesnt help how unhealthy and lonely my folks are, constantly reminds me of their hopefully-not-soon fate

Also, for anyone who has/had similar thoughts/experiences/crises, do you mind stating your gender and age? I am a sociology student so knowing other people's backgrounds who suffer from the same burden is really interesting to me

ManOfMystery · 04-04-2014 2:39pm

infinityloop wrote: »

I definitely subscribe to Option 1. I can't see it any other way. Of course we continue on after we die. Now whether or not this is reincarnation or an afterlife or simply our energy and atoms being retransferred onto the living world is a different thing, but I dont believe dying is the end.

So in a way, that's comforting. Apart of me is almost ready to just embrace that fact. Be happy that I am a living part of the universe and when I die I will continue to be so - just under a different form. But, it stops short just there. The fact that I am living proof of the universe and that I'm going to continue on and on forever and ever for infinity (at least until it all ends if it ever ends!) also freaks me out.

It's a conundrum. I don't want to die yet I don't want to live forever. Both prospects are terrifying and both are (imo) absolutely inevitable.

I just can't stop thinking about the scale of human history and humanity.

You're thinking on a scale which is much too big for any one human to fathom. That's why we exist as a race, and all our achievements and accomplishments have been as a race. The world isn't the way it is because of any one man - it's the collective efforts of billions of humans which have brought us here. And it will be the collective efforts of many billions and trillions more which will take us further into the future and probably out into the universe.

Human brains are programmed to see everything with a beginning and end. We find it almost impossible to comprehend infinity. We can take a stab at it - think of impossibly big numbers - but can we ever truly comprehend it without there always being some hint of an end? I don't think so.

If you subscribe to the theory that we're all going to be absorbed back into the universe's energy, then here's a different slant on it - you're already in it. Energy can't be created or destroyed, it exists always and will only ever change forms. You're already part of this universe and when your life ends, you'll just take a different form. Maybe you were something else before your life here on Earth. And who's to say that future form will go on infinitely? There may be a lifespan in that form before you go on to the next level again, and so on. Who knows!

You need to take the focus off everything impossibly big - the cosmos, the universe, time - and focus on the things which actually affect you day to day and which you have some control over. Your life, your happiness, your relationship, your career. It's good to have an interest in all this (and God knows, I do too), but in this case it sounds like it's threatening to overwhelm you. The sky isnt going to fall on your head tomorrow

thefeatheredcat · 04-04-2014 6:55pm

OP I have to ask, what lead up to the realisation of your own mortality in September of last year? Did something specific happen that has triggered all these feelings, an event, or someone in your family or friends ill, or a deeper intimation with your partner or plans for a family?

As I read through your opening post, I could hear the echo of something like Ancient Aliens and some of the thoughts and questions and discussions that crop up in that. Since you have an interest in history and sociology perhaps things you have been reading have been crowding your mind giving you such interesting thoughts that it has overwhelmed you and created this realisation and fear?

infinityloop wrote: »

The thought of my poor parents, who are getting old now, are going to live out the rest of their lonely days (they're long seperated and long single) at home thinking about their past life and how they've lived it. How that their day is drawing closer and closer until the flame on the candle is blown out.

Do you know how each of your parents feel about death? Do you worry about them having regrets? Do they share what you think they feel, including how they have lived their lives? Are you worried how you might feel when they are gone, that you might regret things too?

Being old is not necessarily the only time in life for a reflection on the past life; it is something that can be done as part of cycles in life, rather than seeing time in life as linear, you see it in cycles and during each cycle you evaluate that cycle, reflect on the past and move on, taking wisdom from it.

infinityloop wrote: »

the thought that one day one of us will be dead and the other will have to be all lonesome and miserable as an aul one all by themselves! It's so upsetting

Not necessarily true. We all have control over our lives. There is a period of mourning, for as long as that takes, but as some stage everyone can bring it into their lives to move on again. Just because one becomes a widow or widower doesn't mean all the happiness and goodness of life no longer exists for the rest of their life. People can adjust over time, and while they might carry their loved one with them in memory, in sentiment, in legacy, those same things can help an individual move on and embrace life, rather than wallowing in loneliness and misery.

You need to challenge how you think; for example, the scene at that lake. You can alter how you think in perceiving how nice that it is those grandkids are making and spending time with that grand dad and how nice that the grand dad is making and spending time with the grand child. That they are embracing opportunity. Even if the grand dad were to die, the grand child still has the memory of that afternoon at the lake, might do the same with their own children and grandchildren, and pass on the story of that day with their grand dad. That's a legacy.

You really need to challenge your fear of death. Not just in thinking about the wider, bigger picture of aftermath and the universe but in thinking about how you feel about yourself living. The story of the hare and the tortoise and how you progress through life with the thought of mortality and that it is to realise that yes, make the most of every minute, but also realise just when making the most of it means slowing down and taking time to smell the roses. You don't need to speed through life or complete everything today, in fear of being dead tomorrow and not having lived, or done x, y or z, but that sometimes living is just about being too.

I think you need to get these thoughts out of your head and work them through to resolving the issue. Maybe letting yourself ramble and rant would be helpful, maybe in a form of a blog because you can work through the fears and challenge it from an intellectual point of view and then an emotional point of view. Dying is real. The fear of dying is real. But often we quietly shove that into a box and not think about it, so we don't give that fear a name, an identity. So think about it, write about it, conquer it by giving it a name, an identity and talk talk talk about it, even if it's with yourself in writing format, where at least you can flesh it out and make it a real issue and work through it and move past from fearing death to accepting it without fear.

Semele · 04-04-2014 7:30pm

I'm familiar with all of what you described! FYI I'm female, 29, however my existential crisis started really abruptly when I was 17, a few months after seeing my granddad pass away. It just came out of nowhere, went on exactly as you describe for about 6-9 months...and then just faded back into the background. I can conjure up the feeling now but apart from a few stressful periods in my life since it has never been the same all-consuming horror of that first time.

I have done a lot of reading about it since (I'm almost a qualified clinical psychologist, so it comes up frequently in my work too) and it seems that an awful lot of people have this sort of period, but then pass through it without any lasting effects. It's normal, really, is what I'm saying. That makes sense, if you think about what the fact of mortality actually is- you know about it from a very young age, but it's like there almost comes a point when your adult consciousness and understanding suddenly grasps the emotional reality of what you've only ever thought about superficially before. Then there is a period of crisis as you find a way to reconcile the truth with how you've experienced your life up to that point. Again, most people do! The human mind is very adaptable.

A whole branch of therapeutic thought- existential psychotherapy- is devoted to just this issue of how we find meaning in a finite world. I'd suggest you read some books by Dr Irvin Yalom, who is the father of existential psychotherapy. They're very readable stories of clients he's worked with and reflections on his own experiences- no psychotherapy background required! His famous "death" one is called "Staring at the sun", although I'd recommend starting with "Love's Executioner" as a better read overall.

I remember when I had my "crisis" I couldn't talk to anyone about it but took a lot of comfort from reading books like this and learning how greater minds than mine had come to terms with it.

Again, good luck, read the books and remember its a natural process and will pass! If this time next year, say, it's still as bad, then speak to your GP and get a referral for therapy so that you can work it through with someone who knows about it.

dar100 · 04-04-2014 8:37pm

Sounds like you're describing what Yalom calls death anxiety, it is something we all carry around with us, and creeps up from the unconscious every now and then.

Call Me Jimmy · 05-04-2014 1:02am

OP I always think and project myself forward to death, I think it is a psychological asset as you see things with greater perspective and eventually will at peace with dissolving back into the earth after enjoying life much more fully than someone who never gave it a thought until they're on their deathbed.

Spunge · 05-04-2014 2:01pm

It sounds like your on your way to overcoming fear of death.

I had an existential crisis a few months ago, never read philosophy before that (honestly i didnt even know what philosophy was). Had some free time and stumbled upon some intro to phil vids, spent a week or 2 reading every wikipedia article i could find and finally found The Stranger, which started the whole existential thing.

I was suicidal in the weeks prior, so obviously i went into it with an already preconcieved notion i was going to die soon. This it turns out after going through a cement mixer of random existential philsophy sources i can see that life is meaningless, and there is no point fearing death, trivial life pursuits like trying to impress people by your clothes, job, car,house whatever, all seem objectively retarded wastes of time. Im still trying to come to some realisation from my own crisis as it were. But as it stands its something like "you and everyone you ever met are all going to die in a short time, dont waste your life stressing about things that are so hilariously trivial, but yet, do your best to reduce suffering of others, coz well...........suffering feels bad".

EDIT: Wow im sorry i thought this was after hours. Forgive my stupid comment

It would also seem my crisis had a positive effect on my life, but most people say the opposite. I guess my life was pretty ****.

LegacyUser · 06-04-2014 2:06pm

Potentially MASSIVE post incoming, can't reply to everyone or everyone's points because I don't have much time and I don't want to waffle on too much and lose the point of what I'm saying. But really thank you everyone who took the time to read and respond! It's very much appreciated. I haven't had a chance to truly get this off my chest. Like I said I've talked about it with my partner and friends but never this much in depth and with this much emotion... It's definitely helped a lot

ManOfMystery wrote: »

You're thinking on a scale which is much too big for any one human to fathom. That's why we exist as a race, and all our achievements and accomplishments have been as a race. The world isn't the way it is because of any one man - it's the collective efforts of billions of humans which have brought us here. And it will be the collective efforts of many billions and trillions more which will take us further into the future and probably out into the universe.

You need to take the focus off everything impossibly big - the cosmos, the universe, time - and focus on the things which actually affect you day to day and which you have some control over. Your life, your happiness, your relationship, your career. It's good to have an interest in all this (and God knows, I do too), but in this case it sounds like it's threatening to overwhelm you. The sky isnt going to fall on your head tomorrow

This is true. I know I need to stop thinking on such an unfathomable massive scale because it just gives me headaches, as it would anyone. The problem, lies here though...

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

Since you have an interest in history and sociology perhaps things you have been reading have been crowding your mind giving you such interesting thoughts that it has overwhelmed you and created this realisation and fear?

This has a big part in it. My love of sociology and history and all things related, I think, has driven me mad but I can't help it. It's who I am. It's how my mind is wired to think. Ever since I was a little child I've loved history and when I got older and could understand sociology I too have become immersed in it. When I walk around town I view everything in a cultural sense. For example, walking around Cork city I think of the history of Cork. I think of the citizens, Cork's identity and it's culture. How the people I see around me are a result of thousands of years development between Gaels, Normans, Vikings the later English etc etc. I think of what life was like back then, how it's changed. I think of what Cork will be like in 2000 years to come. Will it be an overgrown largely forgotten city? I don't know. What will people speak in 100 years? How is it that Cork people have come to speak in this particular accent? Why are the colours red so prominent in Cork and even Munster as a whole? Et cetera!

But thinking of all these things of course just leads me to ultimately think about the universe and life. ANYTHING leads me to think about this. For example, yesterday I was playing my accordion and it reminded me of Europe and the 1800's which in due turn led me to think deeper and deeper and eventually back into this existential mind load! I sat there for a good 30 minutes, accordion in my hands, just thinking and freaking out. It's ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where even the smallest most mundane thing will trigger it. Yesterday I was looking at a chair and just looking at this chair I started to think of the tree it came from. How old that tree may or may not have been, how both amazing and upsetting it is that humans have managed to master the Earth to suit their own needs by chopping down these trees and turning them into chairs with which we can sit on comfortably and how ultimately we and these chairs are one and the same because we stem from the same Earth and cosmos, lol...

It's crazy I know. I mean, I gotta be honest, I feel like I live an interesting life. The world around me absolutely fascinates, amazes and interests me. I find it incredible. Yet these very emotions and thoughts also completely overwhelm me.

But I can't help it. This is how I think. This is how my mind works. This is how I view the world. It's what I study/ied at university and it's what I want to do with my life. I just can't seem to stop connecting it to the bigger picture, and with these type of topics it seems impossible NOT to!

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

OP I have to ask, what lead up to the realisation of your own mortality in September of last year? Did something specific happen that has triggered all these feelings, an event, or someone in your family or friends ill, or a deeper intimation with your partner or plans for a family?

I'm not sure to be honest. I was in India & Nepal for 5 months and I came back in July. India is a constant reminder of mortality, spirituality and life & death but I really don't think it's what "triggered" this. I didn't feel or think like this in the slightest when I was there, it only happened 2 months after I had come home. Maybe subconsciously? I dunno. There was also a period of strife between me and my mother with regards to university and my financial situation but that was resolved. I have definitely gotten a lot closer with my partner since then, too.

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

Do you know how each of your parents feel about death? Do you worry about them having regrets? Do they share what you think they feel, including how they have lived their lives? Are you worried how you might feel when they are gone, that you might regret things too?

Well I'll be honest I'm not sure how my parents feel about dying. My dad has had a long, interesting life and I'm almost certain he's accepting of death. I think he just regrets not having a partner to spend the rest of his days with. If he had a wife I'm sure he would be 100% content but he is alone and has been for a long time. That aside, I feel that he's ok with dying. I could be completely wrong though. I don't talk to either of my parents about stuff like this.

I'm pretty sure my mother is scared of dying. She's mainly scared of dying alone. We had an emotional argument once that ended up with both of us in tears and her crying hysterically repeating "I'm going to die alone". Haven't discussed that with her since, and again don't really see myself doing so... I just, unfortunately, don't connect with my parents on a level where I can openly discuss life and death and the meaning of it all.

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

I think you need to get these thoughts out of your head and work them through to resolving the issue. MDying is real. The fear of dying is real. But often we quietly shove that into a box and not think about it, so we don't give that fear a name, an identity. So think about it, write about it, conquer it by giving it a name, an identity and talk talk talk about it, even if it's with yourself in writing format, where at least you can flesh it out and make it a real issue and work through it and move past from fearing death to accepting it without fear.

This is true and I feel like this is what I have been trying to do the past few months - but to no avail. I am constantly thinking about it and trying to accept it. Trying to accept everything. Trying to accept what I am, where I am, how I am. Accept that it's meaningless and there is no point going mad thinking about it. Just accept that I am living life and should be grateful I live a life (a great one at that!).

But I just can't seem to sit down and accept it. I don't know. I've thought about this to death (lol...) the past few months but I just can't relax and get on with it. I want to. I want to enjoy my life - I mean it's not that I don't but my enjoyment of life is definitely being hampered because I have this constant dark cloud hanging over me. I know it's stupid as well to feel like this because I only get to live ONCE and I should savour it all but it just doesn't seem to go away. Maybe I just need time? But how much more time? 7 months seems like a long time to think and accept this. Blah, I just don't know!

Semele wrote: »

I'm familiar with all of what you described! FYI I'm female, 29, however my existential crisis started really abruptly when I was 17, a few months after seeing my granddad pass away. It just came out of nowhere, went on exactly as you describe for about 6-9 months...and then just faded back into the background. I can conjure up the feeling now but apart from a few stressful periods in my life since it has never been the same all-consuming horror of that first time.

Thanks, I have done some reading and it is a relief knowing that this is, like you say, apparently a phase that a lot of younger adults go through and it will pass. But still, I'm not 100% sure just waiting for it to pass is how to really resolve it. Maybe it is though? I don't feel like it is. I feel like I'm fighting an internal struggle and I need to win, as opposed to let it die out. But again, maybe I really should just these feelings feel and these thoughts think...

I will definitely do some reading into it! I would definitely be reassured reading the same issue in depth by someone who has a bigger capacity to explain and understand it. Seems I have a few books to read now

Right, I want to keep talking about it but I'm going to give it a rest... Past few days have been alternating between acceptance and joy and then absolute terror and anxiety! Time to go for a walk (and probably overanalyze everything!)

Call Me Jimmy · 06-04-2014 2:26pm

infinityloop wrote: »

Potentially MASSIVE post incoming, can't reply to everyone or everyone's points because I don't have much time and I don't want to waffle on too much and lose the point of what I'm saying. But really thank you everyone who took the time to read and respond! It's very much appreciated. I haven't had a chance to truly get this off my chest. Like I said I've talked about it with my partner and friends but never this much in depth and with this much emotion... It's definitely helped a lot

This is true. I know I need to stop thinking on such an unfathomable massive scale because it just gives me headaches, as it would anyone. The problem, lies here though...

This has a big part in it. My love of sociology and history and all things related, I think, has driven me mad but I can't help it. It's who I am. It's how my mind is wired to think. Ever since I was a little child I've loved history and when I got older and could understand sociology I too have become immersed in it. When I walk around town I view everything in a cultural sense. For example, walking around Cork city I think of the history of Cork. I think of the citizens, Cork's identity and it's culture. How the people I see around me are a result of thousands of years development between Gaels, Normans, Vikings the later English etc etc. I think of what life was like back then, how it's changed. I think of what Cork will be like in 2000 years to come. Will it be an overgrown largely forgotten city? I don't know. What will people speak in 100 years? How is it that Cork people have come to speak in this particular accent? Why are the colours red so prominent in Cork and even Munster as a whole? Et cetera!

But thinking of all these things of course just leads me to ultimately think about the universe and life. ANYTHING leads me to think about this. For example, yesterday I was playing my accordion and it reminded me of Europe and the 1800's which in due turn led me to think deeper and deeper and eventually back into this existential mind load! I sat there for a good 30 minutes, accordion in my hands, just thinking and freaking out. It's ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where even the smallest most mundane thing will trigger it. Yesterday I was looking at a chair and just looking at this chair I started to think of the tree it came from. How old that tree may or may not have been, how both amazing and upsetting it is that humans have managed to master the Earth to suit their own needs by chopping down these trees and turning them into chairs with which we can sit on comfortably and how ultimately we and these chairs are one and the same because we stem from the same Earth and cosmos, lol...

It's crazy I know. I mean, I gotta be honest, I feel like I live an interesting life. The world around me absolutely fascinates, amazes and interests me. I find it incredible. Yet these very emotions and thoughts also completely overwhelm me.

But I can't help it. This is how I think. This is how my mind works. This is how I view the world. It's what I study/ied at university and it's what I want to do with my life. I just can't seem to stop connecting it to the bigger picture, and with these type of topics it seems impossible NOT to!

I'm not sure to be honest. I was in India & Nepal for 5 months and I came back in July. India is a constant reminder of mortality, spirituality and life & death but I really don't think it's what "triggered" this. I didn't feel or think like this in the slightest when I was there, it only happened 2 months after I had come home. Maybe subconsciously? I dunno. There was also a period of strife between me and my mother with regards to university and my financial situation but that was resolved. I have definitely gotten a lot closer with my partner since then, too.

Well I'll be honest I'm not sure how my parents feel about dying. My dad has had a long, interesting life and I'm almost certain he's accepting of death. I think he just regrets not having a partner to spend the rest of his days with. If he had a wife I'm sure he would be 100% content but he is alone and has been for a long time. That aside, I feel that he's ok with dying. I could be completely wrong though. I don't talk to either of my parents about stuff like this.

I'm pretty sure my mother is scared of dying. She's mainly scared of dying alone. We had an emotional argument once that ended up with both of us in tears and her crying hysterically repeating "I'm going to die alone". Haven't discussed that with her since, and again don't really see myself doing so... I just, unfortunately, don't connect with my parents on a level where I can openly discuss life and death and the meaning of it all.

This is true and I feel like this is what I have been trying to do the past few months - but to no avail. I am constantly thinking about it and trying to accept it. Trying to accept everything. Trying to accept what I am, where I am, how I am. Accept that it's meaningless and there is no point going mad thinking about it. Just accept that I am living life and should be grateful I live a life (a great one at that!).

But I just can't seem to sit down and accept it. I don't know. I've thought about this to death (lol...) the past few months but I just can't relax and get on with it. I want to. I want to enjoy my life - I mean it's not that I don't but my enjoyment of life is definitely being hampered because I have this constant dark cloud hanging over me. I know it's stupid as well to feel like this because I only get to live ONCE and I should savour it all but it just doesn't seem to go away. Maybe I just need time? But how much more time? 7 months seems like a long time to think and accept this. Blah, I just don't know!

Thanks, I have done some reading and it is a relief knowing that this is, like you say, apparently a phase that a lot of younger adults go through and it will pass. But still, I'm not 100% sure just waiting for it to pass is how to really resolve it. Maybe it is though? I don't feel like it is. I feel like I'm fighting an internal struggle and I need to win, as opposed to let it die out. But again, maybe I really should just these feelings feel and these thoughts think...

I will definitely do some reading into it! I would definitely be reassured reading the same issue in depth by someone who has a bigger capacity to explain and understand it. Seems I have a few books to read now

Right, I want to keep talking about it but I'm going to give it a rest... Past few days have been alternating between acceptance and joy and then absolute terror and anxiety! Time to go for a walk (and probably overanalyze everything!)

It is the fundamental human state of cognitive dissonance that is accounted for in neuroscience by the two hemisphere's of the brain. The feeling that we are or at least should be significant while knowing that we are insignificant is almost a biological by-product of our humanity. It is also very interesting for many people including myself to think about these things.

The problem is that thinking, besides being a process much like when you watch waves coming in one after another from the sea to the shore, can be addictive like anything else.

The good news is: you can sit on the beach, relaxed, watching all the waves coming in from a distance, or you can be out in the cold water with each wave as it comes in, being thrown about and made feel uncomfortable over and over again like you're in a washing machine.
There is no need to worry that you are thinking like this so in that sense you have no war to fight with yourself. But I would be wary if I were you of how much of your time is invested in this thinking and how much you really get out of it. I would look towards meditation in your case.

Queen-Mise · 06-04-2014 10:42pm

infinityloop wrote: »

But still, I'm not 100% sure just waiting for it to pass is how to really resolve it. Maybe it is though? I don't feel like it is. I feel like I'm fighting an internal struggle and I need to win, as opposed to let it die out. But again, maybe I really should just these feelings feel and these thoughts think...

It actually is, it is the way we resolve everything that we cannot directly affect; grief, anxiety, happiness, sadness, they all pass. You can't click your fingers and give rid of grief, anxiety, etc.

I can relate to what you are saying, when my husband leaves the house with the kids in the car, every single time it goes through my head 'I might not see them alive again', but there is fcuk all I can do about, bar build a basement and imprison them all.

Statistics help me, I am more likely to die of cancer than them in a car crash. As well, random sh*t happens also.

Terrlock · 07-04-2014 3:42am

First there was nothing and then it exploded.....creating the universe, everything in it, including life itself.

Then everything eventually ceases to exist.

Sounds pointless really, whats the point of it. If this is true what is the point of life......no wonder people fear death so much.

It's big question, what am I, why do I exist and what's the point?

The whole thing just does not make sense, what is the point of it all? To be born only to die, to exist only not to exist.

So it really doesn't matter at all what I do in life.....everything is destined to end.

suicide_circus · 07-04-2014 8:42am

Yep this is something I struggle with on a daily basis. The futility of life, the pointlessness of it all. So scared of dying because I know my partner will be heartbroken and I cannot stand the thought of causing her pain like that. Sometimes I wish I had faith/religion because that would give me a warm fuzzy coping mechanism but I cant force myself to believe something I dont. Watching my parents grow old, I just dont want them to be scared of death like I am.

Oh man, I'm sad now

Sorry op, I'm no help!

ManOfMystery · 07-04-2014 10:03am

Maybe there is no 'point' to existence. Eventually everything will end, so perhaps there is no point to the universe full stop. We keep looking for a meaning which might not even be there. We exist - maybe that should be enough for us.

Does that mean I should just lie down in between start and finish, and do nothing? No. Because regardless of what the end result is, regardless of the futility of it all, regardless of whether our actions have any long term meaning at all, I still derive enjoyment from life. I have a wife, a son, a decent life and hobbies I'm passionate about.

Sometimes I get in the car and drive somewhere scenic, then go home again. Was there any point to my journey? I didn't buy anything, I didn't go anywhere for a specific reason, I didn't have to collect anything. But I enjoyed it nonetheless.

Personally I think some people spend too long questioning the point of everything, when they could be making the most of the time they have and doing all the things which make them happy, excited and elated.

LegacyUser · 07-04-2014 2:16pm

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Maybe there is no 'point' to existence. Eventually everything will end, so perhaps there is no point to the universe full stop. We keep looking for a meaning which might not even be there. We exist - maybe that should be enough for us.

Does that mean I should just lie down in between start and finish, and do nothing? No. Because regardless of what the end result is, regardless of the futility of it all, regardless of whether our actions have any long term meaning at all, I still derive enjoyment from life. I have a wife, a son, a decent life and hobbies I'm passionate about.

Sometimes I get in the car and drive somewhere scenic, then go home again. Was there any point to my journey? I didn't buy anything, I didn't go anywhere for a specific reason, I didn't have to collect anything. But I enjoyed it nonetheless.

Personally I think some people spend too long questioning the point of everything, when they could be making the most of the time they have and doing all the things which make them happy, excited and elated.

Well, I do believe I've come to the realization that there is no meaning, no point. We just are. There is absolutely no answer to asking "Why?" and if there is, we'll NEVER know, so forget about it! I have established this...

I'm still having trouble realizing everything else though. Dying still scares me and the constant struggle with trying to understand what we are and so on and so forth...

My partner thinks part of the reason I'm having this anxiety or crisis if ya will, is because for once in my life I don't have any problems. Generally I had a lot of financial problems, or family issues or relationship problems or university issues etc etc, but the past few months everything has been perfect. For once I'm financially stable, I'm getting a long great with my parents, everything is super with my partner, etc. I have nothing to really complain about so my brain (according to her) needs to find some form of anxiety to fill the void and lo and behold - it overthinks its ownself crazy! I think she may have a valid point but I'm not a psychologist so I really dont know.

On the plus side all this has helped me quit smoking :P Haven't smoked in a month, which is the longest I've gone in 5 years! Gone cold turkey

Call Me Jimmy · 07-04-2014 2:42pm

That is a real good observation by your partner. I've found a couple of times (rare) that I've been feeling good it's almost like... what's this? I'll start worrying because I am not worrying about anything!

I believe there is no answer to the 'why?' question too. I think if we were ecstatic (don't want to use the word enlightened) in life we would never think to ask it.

Sounds like you are in a good place, on a good path. Maybe the only thing you need to add to your repertoire is a good calming technique whenever you feel this sort of thinking popping up? Maybe a bit more self-discipline in saying, 'I know the answer, so I won't let myself think about these questions'.

thefeatheredcat · 07-04-2014 6:54pm

I too think your partner has a point about not having an issue that you actually have the time perhaps to really focus on this, without distraction of other issues hiding it from you.

If you were India with this anxiety/fear of death and dying and general meaning in life, what is the first thing you could possibly do or seek out to minimise the anxiety, since there are reminders of mortality, spirituality, life and death? Could you do that here, in similar ways? Are you perhaps missing here something that fulfilled you in India? Or was India a subconscious awakening that actually has led to you thinking about it after being surrounded by regular reminders of everything surrounding death?

From my own experience about facing my own mortality in general, I'm aware I could die at anytime anywhere, but I'm comfortable with that and I don't fear it. It actually came out of an experience I had where I directly challenged any fears of death I had, and it liberated me because I hadn't been living really, because I was preoccupied with death and dying and the fear of it (and bad things happening) actively preventing me from doing stuff I liked and living life. It's like being so afraid of getting hurt in a relationship to the point of avoiding having a relationship or not getting close to people out of the fear of being hurt by them.

I don't think you need to face down death in some dangerous activity, but I think you need to do it from a psychological, intellectual point and an emotional point.

But if your partner is right and that you are just allowing your brain in a way to have a field day in over thinking this, then it is important to re train your brain into allowing it in, but not in such massive waves. Mortality is important to acknowledge, the mind needs to chew on it but to a point and I think right now you need something else for your brain to work on to distract it so it has time to process what you have been thinking and find acceptance. Either that or you work yourself up into a frenzy that talking or writing it out is the only way to exhaust the issue in your mind, until you either have it out of your system or have reached a conclusion.

JuliusCaesar · 07-04-2014 9:40pm

There are Death Cafes set up to discuss these really important topics - there was one in Dublin, I don't know if others are planned, but here's the website.

Semele · 08-04-2014 4:09pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

There are Death Cafes set up to discuss these really important topics - there was one in Dublin, I don't know if others are planned, but here's the website.

I actually thought of these when thinking about the thread at work! I've never been to one of the cafe events but there have been quite a few articles about them in various papers/magazines round London and people seem to find them surprisingly enjoyable!

LegacyUser · 10-04-2014 7:22pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

There are Death Cafes set up to discuss these really important topics - there was one in Dublin, I don't know if others are planned, but here's the website.

That sounds class! I dont know when Ill be in Dublin and if so if I'll be alone and have free time but if I ever do, I will check that out, sounds great

So not much to say really. Thank you so much everyone, all your thoughts have definitely helped, given me a different perspective. It was good to get it off my chest. I don't overthink the universe and existence anymore, I just let it be and accept it. I am still quite scared of dying though, of the unknown and the ultimate end but I have my whole life to work on that. I suppose the best I can ask for is to die on my death bed old and healthy, having lived a great life and ready to die, so all there really is for me to do is work towards that goal!

I am definitely going to read the recommended books too. Apart from that too there's not much to do but get on with it! Existential crisis or not, we all have one life so just live it!

Seriously though thanks again everyone, I don't think you're aware about how much better I feel after this thread! Never mind a therapist :P E-pints are on me

LegacyUser · 11-04-2014 4:47am

Sorry to re-bump but just had a really bad panic attack there...

Having a drink with my partner and our friend but started thinking all of a sudden of death and my end. Can't get that fact out of my head. My life will end. Fúck! Oh Jesus, really making myself feel bad right now. So surreal to think that moment is going to come. That moment when everthing rushes out of my body and I cease to exist...

I plan on overcoming and accepting this death thing but if in say 6 months I'm still getting panic attacks I might have to see my GP because I just cant function like this anymore! Again sorry to bring this up again but I havent felt this bad and anxious in weeks, dont know why or how especially seeing as how Ive been so optimistic lately...

Not expecting advice from anyone but just needed to express this... thanks again regardless

RossFixxxed · 11-04-2014 8:48am

First off I'd avoid drinking for a while. I stopped a few years back for similar reasons and I have to say it made a big difference. Smoking has to go next, it's somthing that reminds me of death and so on. What a dumb habit for me to have eh? I think something like this happens everyone at some point. We all end up facing our mortality. I don't have an answer for you at all, the whole thing is absolutely terrifying.

HOWEVER, and it is a big however, in capitals and all, if it is affecting your quality of life and interferring with your day to day life NOW is the time to start tackling the issue. These things take time, patience and care for yourself. Maybe seeing someone would help now, nip it in the bud. Fear of death is healthy to a degree, panic attacks are absolutely not.

Existential "crisis" (?)

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