extremely bold nephew out of control

burgermasters

So my niece has a little boy my great nephew who is quite literally allowed to do what ever he wants? He is 6, he breaks windows users foul language to his aunts and uncles myself included, his mother smokes weed around him and his father is in prison, his mother is due any week a second child for another guy who is a drug dealer, every time I turn my head he kicks and punches my two younger girls and I caught his mother watch him do it and say nothing, he wouldn't dare do it to my son because he will be punched back, anyway I went away for a weekend myself and my wife and left the kids with my mother not sure if I was right or wrong but I instructed my girls Not to play with him full stop, and now half of my family have a problem with this and are giving me attitude because of it my own mother included even though they know what he is like and complain all the time about it?? Was i right or wrong to do this? What do you guys think?

Pawwed Rig

You have to look after your own kids however it is not fair to instruct your girls to not play with him. They are not in control of the situation. It is up to you to ensure that they are kept apart if you do not want your children associating with him.
Sounds like a difficult situation tbf. I would suggest calling a social worker to assess the family situation as your niece seems to have very poor judgement as a parent. Having said that I realise it is unlikely you would do this. Best to just stay away as much as possible and in the event you are together you need to take care of your own.

Alf. A. Male

burgermasters wrote: »

Was i right or wrong to do this? What do you guys think?

I think you're dead right. If an unrelated child was harming your children you'd have no second thoughts about keeping them away and this should be no different. It's a shame for the kids, but that's out of your control, you can only raise your own and protect them. If anyone in your family gives you grief about it, tell them in no uncertain terms why you took that step.

Big Bag of Chips

Had you told your mother to keep an eye on the girls and not let things get out of hand? I do agree that you have every right to protect your kids from his behaviour, and you were right to tell them to stay away from him. Maybe your wording of it might have been wrong, though. Instead of "telling them in no uncertain terms" not to play with him, you should have let them know it was ok not to play with him if they didn't want to... It's all about how it's delivered.

But I think you should have discussed it with your mother before leaving and let her be the one to manage it.

Obliq

burgermasters wrote: »

I instructed my girls Not to play with him full stop, and now half of my family have a problem with this and are giving me attitude because of it my own mother included even though they know what he is like and complain all the time about it?? Was i right or wrong to do this? What do you guys think?

Like the previous poster, I think that's too much responsibility placed on your girls - all children, when given instructions like that, will follow them to the letter even when the other child is in good form and playing nicely. "Gran, he SWORE! Again!!" - that kind of thing. I know this because my youngest has special needs and definitely requires supervised play at all times. Some parents handle this better than others, but the ones who don't handle it well are the ones who say "Just stay away from him". It escalates the flash points and also emphasises the notion for all the children that there is something "wrong" with the child.

That said, I have full sympathy for parents who's kids are on the receiving end of that kind of temper and lashing out. I guess my only advice is to remember that it's not the child's fault that he has no boundaries, or even if he does understand that there are limits, can't control his own impulses during play and it becomes a kind of compulsive no-win situation where as he feels worse and worse, his behaviour slips accordingly.

TBH, unless you're prepared to supervise play and try to act like a teacher/child psychologist, with full co-operation from the parents (doesn't sound like you'll get that...), this doesn't look set to improve. However, I'd explain to your girls (in age appropriate language) that their cousin is having difficulties with learning how to play nicely and that you know it's not his fault.

Any encouragement you can give to all the kids in question to have a nice time (even for short periods of supervised play) will help them and him discover how good it could be, and drawing clear boundaries like "as soon as I see ANY hitting, or hear voices raised in anger, the playing stops". Unfortunately, (as I know from experience) this is a long and exhausting process for the adults supervising and isn't really your, or your in-laws responsibility. When your kids are playing with him though, I'd suggest you do as much as you can to show him how nicely you expect him to play, and when it stops.

Sorry, long post. Close to my heart issue!

miamee

You are right to try to keep them away from him if he is aggressive or violent with them.

BUT if that is his home (you don't say in the post but I am guessing) and your girls were staying for the weekend, I think asking them to not play with him was a bad idea. Hard for them to be mean to him and tell him to go away, hard for your mother to referee between them all and for him to think he has someone to play with but then not be allowed to. He is only 6 after all, regardless of what a little monster his mother may have made him into. You seem to have written him off already which is very sad, IMO.

Sleepy

Honestly OP, I think that unless you can convince your niece to involve a counselor, you need to review your childminding options.

I wouldn't be leaving my children in an environment where, tbh, such scumbaggish behaviour is tolerated. Your niece is involved with criminals and taking drugs around children. If your mother tolerates this, that's her choice but bring your children into such an environment (or leaving them in it for a weekend without your protection) is entirely yours.

We all need a break from the kids but, could you maybe ask some of your wife's family to babysit next time? Or organise a reciprocal babysitting arrangement with some friends that have kids of their own?

I'm sure you don't want to deprive your children of access to their Granny but, until such time as your niece gets her life in order and starts parenting her child, I wouldn't advise having them there without your direct supervision (and even at that, I'd advise the girls that it's okay to hit back).

Starokan

I think you were wrong in this regard and id imagine it was awkward for your kids too when they had to refuse to play with him. Also not easy for your mother to try and resolve.

In general I would say keep your kids away full stop as he is a bad influence and sadly will in all likelihood remain that and the next time you go away find someone else to look after them.

I actually feel sad for the 6 year old though, what chance has he got.

Obliq

Ps. (I could go on for hours about this!) For every negative or critical comment that child gets, he'd need at least 5 positive ones to help him understand (and feel) that improved behaviour = feeling happy. Try and praise him about everything he gets right, when he's in your company and that will help him trust that he could have a good time when he's trying to behave.

thefeatheredcat

I think wrong in this instance of forbidding the children to play, but I do understand why; is your niece living with your mother or some arrangement where your mother minds your grand nephew?

If you knew the boy was going to be there, you can't expect a couple of kids to refuse point blank to interact with him; that's not really how you deal with problems in life, by refusing to acknowledge them or deal with them. However I can see why you wouldn't really want to have your kids be the easy targets of a boy that has never been corrected for his behaviour by a passive parent, the only authority in his life. I do agree with Obliq that they could have shown him an alternative and given him a positive experience.

I think really they are deflecting the real issue..... your niece who is failing as a parent to her son and will fail her baby. If everyone is aware of this boy's behaviour and your niece and her problems, is anything proactive being done? Is anyone parenting the boy? Does he hit / kick/ punch his mother, and other adults too, or just younger children perceived as weaker who are less likely to react similarly? Has it occurred to anyone that he is likely to have a major disruption in his life with the baby and possibly could also be physically violent towards the baby, because his negative attention seeking behaviour has been pandered to, validated by his mother, never corrected for years?

In your shoes, I'd actually open up a line of conversation with all the family and admit fault, because that will open up the more important, most urgent conversation about the boy and his behaviour and how he needs help asap in learning boundaries, in having a parent parent him. The boy is a critical issue, not whether you were right or wrong really, to me that is no real concern, my concern even as a stranger lies with the boy and the fact his mother is failing to parent him and certainly does not sound like she is really in control of her life, or in a good place. TBH I would see that the family who are really taking issue over something quite trivial in comparison to the accepted behaviour from a 6 year old reeks of denial and deflection on behalf of all, when they are very aware of his behaviour, complain about it, is the subject even of your own thread, mentioned as background, yet is not the central issue of your post and is not the central issue to their problem with you. That, that in itself worries me more.

While it may not be your place, it does limit future options and future engagement between all of you, especially if you feel that you don't want your children exposed to your grand nephew's behaviour and choose to go the route of not going to where he lives if such is the case your niece lives with your mother or regularly visits or there is an arrangement where your mother looks after the boy regularly. That is a lose-lose situation for all. At the same time, your niece and her son can't continue as are, but someone has to be willing to draw the line, and it would be better that it is a someone than a something, an event or circumstance that crops up and is reacted to, when there is an opportunity to be proactive about the whole situation that means a small boy gets the boundaries and learns what is acceptable behaviour and what is not, and that the children play with him and he learns how nice it is not to be lonely, how nice it is to have someone to play with, with a parent who is taking control of their life and situation and extended family members who want to spend time with the 6 year old.

Pawwed Rig

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

In your shoes, I'd actually open up a line of conversation with all the family and admit fault, because that will open up the more important, most urgent conversation about the boy and his behaviour and how he needs help asap in learning boundaries, in having a parent parent him.

Excellent post TFC. The only issue I would have is that you are assuming that we are dealing with reasonable educated people here. I hope I am wrong but the niece has proven to be incapable of raising a child effectively and is allowing drugs and crime to enter the family. This does not seem to be a reasonable person and will therefore be unlikely to follow reasonable advice. As I said I hope I am wrong but there are many parents in this country who would say they love their children but are not willing to put any effort into raising them. There is a bleak outlook for this little boy even at such a young age.:(

Obliq

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is a bleak outlook for this little boy even at such a young age.:(

I know this is voicing the harsh reality about some kids who get off to a really difficult start, but sometimes things come together a bit better, and hopefully the OP will take on board that it could take a huge family effort and this boy could be set back on track with help.

The lad's behaviour can't have escaped his school's attention, and there are a number of options available to them through the system to intervene in certain ways. Problematic behaviour will often lead to an assessment by educational psychologists, for example, and I would imagine that it won't be long before the HSE gets involved in helping that family with some parenting recommendations. I'm only saying this because I hope that the OP will see it as a heads-up about how his whole family could benefit from professional help, as and when it's offered, and to note that with everyone on board, the child's home life and issues could be turned around for him.

I hate to hear of kid's who don't get the chance to change their circumstances, so well done to the OP for asking the question in the first place - it's good to know that someone is questioning how this child is being raised.

Pawwed Rig

Obliq wrote: »

I know this is voicing the harsh reality about some kids who get off to a really difficult start, but sometimes things come together a bit better, and hopefully the OP will take on board that it could take a huge family effort and this boy could be set back on track with help.

Here is hoping you are right but the reaction of the OPs mother would lead me to think that the family won't band together.
Also, when you are dealing with drug dealers reasonableness goes out the window. These are people who feed on other people's misery. That is the little boys 'step father' with his real father behind bars. My heart aches for the little lad. He's had a bad start and his mother is ensuring he will have a bad future.

Obliq

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Here is hoping you are right but the reaction of the OPs mother would lead me to think that the family won't band together.
Also, when you are dealing with drug dealers reasonableness goes out the window. These are people who feed on other people's misery. That is the little boys 'step father' with his real father behind bars. My heart aches for the little lad. He's had a bad start and his mother is ensuring he will have a bad future.

I know. I've seen a few kids go head first into major trouble from their parent's weed abuse (and worse drugs of course, but weed is plenty bad - lunched out parents = uncared for children). The lack of motivation caused by the drug habits will be the biggest spanner in the works here, I reckon.

LegacyUser

If this child was related to me I would be getting in contact with the the child support services and getting a social worker involved with this child.
The reality for this child is that his mother does not care about him, he has been given no boundries, love or support since he was born. His father is in prison.
As a result he lashing out to get attention because he is getting no attention at home.

Unless you and the family step up to help this child he will end up getting in trouble in school and will be known to the guards in the next few years.

I am sure that school have noticed how he is acting at the moment. They may already be looking at getting help for him but I know that this can take time due to the cut backs.
Your whole family see this child as a nightmare. Along with this you know what his mother is like and that his home life is not the best either.
Rather than complain about him why not try and get him the help he needs. Even if he had to go into foster care with experienced parents it would offer him stability.

How would you feel in 12 years time if he was up in court?
Would you not feel better if he came to tell you that he got a good leaving cert and got into college?