Best Engineering/Physics universities?

JamesFitz

I'm doing the leaving in June and my strong points would be Physics and Maths. I also have a great interest in these subjects so I'd like to do an engineering/physics course.

I've been split between engineering choice in UL and UCD's equivalent. I live in Limerick so obviously staying at home would be easier for me but irrespective of that, which would be the better uni for me?

Another question, I'd love to be doing work in aerospace with the likes of say, for example, the ESA. Which would be the best course for me or would it not really matter until I do a Masters/PhD?

Cheers for any replies lads.

Mr Pseudonym

UCD's Engineering course is the most prestigious based on student preference: even though it has 50% more places than TCD's, the UCD Engineering course requirement was twenty points higher, last year.

I've heard several people say that, from an international perspective, UCD and TCD are clearly ahead of the rest. Most recently, a UCD physicist at a conference abroad who said that everyone would assume he was from Trinity.

JamesFitz

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

UCD's Engineering course is the most prestigious based on student preference: even though it has 50% more places than TCD's, the UCD Engineering course requirement was twenty points higher, last year.

I've heard several people say that, from an international perspective, UCD and TCD are clearly ahead of the rest. Most recently, a UCD physicist at a conference abroad who said that everyone would assume he was from Trinity.

But would it really matter if I did a degree in UL if I went on to do a PhD in UCD/TCD anyway? Would be much handier doing it in Limerick over Dublin.

Arciphel

UL has very good links with the ESA and the Space University, and the Aero Eng course send students on internships to Boeing & Airbus every year. I'll drop you a PM with the name if someone on UL you can contact if you like?

Mr Pseudonym

JamesFitz wrote: »

But would it really matter if I did a degree in UL if I went on to do a PhD in UCD/TCD anyway? Would be much handier doing it in Limerick over Dublin.

I don't think you should assume that you'll go on to do a PhD. After five years of studying, your intentions may very well have changed. I thought I wanted to do a PhD in Economics when I started my undergrad, but now I just wanna get outta here!

Do you intend to work in Ireland?

bren2001

JamesFitz wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving in June and my strong points would be Physics and Maths. I also have a great interest in these subjects so I'd like to do an engineering/physics course.

I've been split between engineering choice in UL and UCD's equivalent. I live in Limerick so obviously staying at home would be easier for me but irrespective of that, which would be the better uni for me?

Another question, I'd love to be doing work in aerospace with the likes of say, for example, the ESA. Which would be the best course for me or would it not really matter until I do a Masters/PhD?

Cheers for any replies lads.

There is no such thing as a "better" university. All the courses teach the same engineering. However, different universities provide different prospects in the future.

If you want to do a PhD, of course, Trinity is the most well regarded outside of Ireland. Any engineering conference I attend, people generally only know Trinity. UCD does not hold much in that regard. However, getting funding to do a PhD in Trinity on the back of your 5 year degree is very tough. Places like DCU are less competitive for internal funding. With external funding there is little difference between the Universities.

If you do not want a job in the academic world at the end then work placements are a consideration. In DCU, they have the INTRA scheme in your 3rd year. From April - September you get a full time job working as an engineer. This is really important when applying for jobs. Most of the people I know from DCU ended up getting jobs. The weaker students were told they got it based on INTRA.

However, if electronics is what you want. UL is by far the best connected (but not neccessarily the best course) for electronic engineering. Analog and Semi Conducter Devices are literally around the corner. They mop up the graduates from there. Since they are so close, the equipment in UL is fantastic (although NUIG has the best I've seen).

Aeronautical engineering is requires a different skill set. It is a lot more hands on than the normal type. Oddly enough, IT Carlow has a fantastic 3 year level 7 course, if you do well in that, there are places in an English course to get your level 8 (cannot remember the name). It is well regarded in England and very difficult to get into. IT Carlow have a level 8 now but I know nothing about it.

There is also the obvious cost to factor in moving outside Limerick.

I got my degree in Mechatronic Engineering last year and went straight into a PhD in DCU.

SHANAbert

UL has a very high engineering reputation.

The mechanical / aeronautical / biomedical courses seem to have great content and the university has good links with industry.

In my experience it's at masters level and above you see the real speciality of Universities. My masters in biomed engineering was split between UL, UCD, Trinity.

All have fantastic people who are at the forefront of what they do. They literally set the standards, write the books, patent designs and see projects through to Industry.

You are in the right country anyway.

Mr Pseudonym

bren2001 wrote: »

There is no such thing as a "better" university. All the courses teach the same engineering. However, different universities provide different prospects in the future.

If you want to do a PhD, of course, Trinity is the most well regarded outside of Ireland. Any engineering conference I attend, people generally only know Trinity. UCD does not hold much in that regard. However, getting funding to do a PhD in Trinity on the back of your 5 year degree is very tough. Places like DCU are less competitive for internal funding. With external funding there is little difference between the Universities.

If you do not want a job in the academic world at the end then work placements are a consideration. In DCU, they have the INTRA scheme in your 3rd year. From April - September you get a full time job working as an engineer. This is really important when applying for jobs. Most of the people I know from DCU ended up getting jobs. The weaker students were told they got it based on INTRA.

However, if electronics is what you want. UL is by far the best connected (but not neccessarily the best course) for electronic engineering. Analog and Semi Conducter Devices are literally around the corner. They mop up the graduates from there. Since they are so close, the equipment in UL is fantastic (although NUIG has the best I've seen).

Aeronautical engineering is requires a different skill set. It is a lot more hands on than the normal type. Oddly enough, IT Carlow has a fantastic 3 year level 7 course, if you do well in that, there are places in an English course to get your level 8 (cannot remember the name). It is well regarded in England and very difficult to get into. IT Carlow have a level 8 now but I know nothing about it.

There is also the obvious cost to factor in moving outside Limerick.

I got my degree in Mechatronic Engineering last year and went straight into a PhD in DCU.

A question to either of the engineers who have contributed to this thread: what do you think is the reason for the points-premium for UCD Engineering? Is there really no basis to its superiority?

have2flushtwice

to answer the initial thread, its down to the lecturer you have which will give YOU the knowledge to get the mark. I had a lecturer in Tallaght who was doing his post grad and could not demonstrate how to use a calipers. I complained, and walked out in November (after a few weeks.) I wasn't wasting my time with this plonker.

I have worked hard, still don't have a degree and am damn glad of it now and im flying it. I taught myself how to think through a problem, and was not taught how to think. when I see an engineer coming I steer clear. no offence to those who have put in the work, but no engineer makes any sort of important and documented decision unless they are chartered.

bren2001

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

A question to either of the engineers who have contributed to this thread: what do you think is the reason for the points-premium for UCD Engineering? Is there really no basis to its superiority?

Its the same reason for the points premium in any other course. UCD has a very good reputation within Ireland. When you are 18 and making the choice, a lot of people are misinformed and pick UCD because it is UCD.

I advise every LC student who wants to do engineering to sit down and look at what is covered in each course. Bar a module or two, they are the exact same no matter where you go. And for the students who want to go on and do a PhD, look at what research groups are in the University e.g. Power Electronics -> NUIG (not that any student would know at 18 the field they wanted to do their research in, but it gives them a reason to go to the college and gets them thinking in that frame of mind).

There is no basis for their high points and I would not let it influence where I go. However, there are advantages to different colleges e.g. UL for electronic etc. I do also think there is a big difference between the IT's and the Universities (bar maybe DIT). The course structures are different and you do come out with a very different skill set.

I find the employment prospects from Engineering courses heavily rely on having done a work placement. Of course, the stronger students will find it much easier (work experience or not). The weaker student 2.2 down always find it difficult and when the employer sits down and looks at it. Do you employ the student from UCD with no work experience or the student from DCU with 6 months?

That is just what I have seen and am obviously biased towards DCU and its model. Ultimately I went to DCU not because of points but because I lived down the road. I did no real research into any of the course and I just got lucky tbh. I would have went to Trinity but they had a two common years and UCD was too far away.

Mr Pseudonym

bren2001 wrote: »

Its the same reason for the points premium in any other course. UCD has a very good reputation within Ireland. When you are 18 and making the choice, a lot of people are misinformed and pick UCD because it is UCD.

Thank you for your reply.

It's hard to fully compare them because of UCD's single-entry Arts course, but it would appear that Trinity has a higher minimum points requirement for all its Arts/Humanities, Business (although it's not directly comparable) and Health Science courses - these comparisons don't give the full picture because many of the courses are larger. For the first time in a while, both Sciences are equal having been higher in TCD. Yet UCD Engineering has long had a higher requirement. Is seems amazing that tat would merely be the result of a self-reinforcing points gap?

spurious

All the courses in Dublin, universities and ITs, are inflated because they are Dublin. People still make the mistake and think higher points means 'harder' or 'better' when it just means 'more wanted'.

The One Direction v. proper musical artists effect.

eyescreamcone

How does UCC rank with regard to Engineering courses?

Arciphel

If you want to compare universities, then a good tool is the HEA report from December last year, available at http://www.hea.ie/sites/default/files/evaluation_framework_long.pdf The report is a bit long, so a summary of some key stats are below.

For science, it's really useful to see:
1 - the scientific publication record and the impact that these publications are having as a way to assess a universities standing in the scientific community.
2 - Number of PhD students per member of staff, number patent applications and licence agreements with industry.
3 - Number of level 8 and level 9/10 graduated who are employed.

PhD graduates per 10 academic staff
UCD - 1.8
DCU - 1.2

No. of Web of Science Documents per Academic
UCD - 4.4
DCU - 2.5

Relative Citation Impact (World Average = 1)
UCD - 1.3
DCU - 1.0

Patent Applications
UCD - 81
DCU - 23

Full-time Academic Staff with PhD qualification
UCD - 72%
DCU - 77%

Total expenditure per student (RGAM)
UCD - €15,211
DCU - €15,090

Net space per student
UCD - 7.6m²
DCU - 8.6m²

Level 8 (Degree) Graduates in Employment (2010)
UCD - 36%
DCU - 46%

Level 9/10 (Masters / PhD) Graduates in Employment
UCD - 62%
DCU - 70%

JamesFitz

Arciphel wrote: »

UL has very good links with the ESA and the Space University, and the Aero Eng course send students on internships to Boeing & Airbus every year. I'll drop you a PM with the name if someone on UL you can contact if you like?

Please do. Cheers.

JamesFitz

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

I don't think you should assume that you'll go on to do a PhD. After five years of studying, your intentions may very well have changed. I thought I wanted to do a PhD in Economics when I started my undergrad, but now I just wanna get outta here!

Do you intend to work in Ireland?

I think I'd like to move abroad, at least for a few years. Emigrating is something that I'm OK with.

Mr Pseudonym

My opinion has become devalued since the arrival to the thread of two engineers (at least one of whom is doing a PhD). But, I would imagine that if you go abroad before having had extended work-experience here the reputation of your university would be relevant.

bren2001

eyescreamcone wrote: »

How does UCC rank with regard to Engineering courses?

UCC and CIT would be well regarded. I could be wrong but CIT was the first college in Ireland to offer Electronic Engineering as a degree. Some of the American companies hold it in quite high regard, since the first wave of Irish electronic engineers came from there. Of course, nowadays it is the same as everywhere else.

JamesFitz wrote: »

I think I'd like to move abroad, at least for a few years. Emigrating is something that I'm OK with.

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

My opinion has become devalued since the arrival to the thread of two engineers (at least one of whom is doing a PhD). But, I would imagine that if you go abroad before having had extended work-experience here the reputation of your university would be relevant.

Your opinion is not devalued and it is quite important to see the other side. Most engineers I have come across (mainly electronic) don't care where your degree is from. However, HR sometimes do. However, it is extremely important to stress, having a 2.1 from MIT is still not as good as having an 1.1 from UCD (but don't get me started on the MIT course....). Your grade is the single most important thing. The place you got it from, is down the list of priorities.

When emigrating with no work experience i.e. just out of college, where you got your degree can be important. I know some people in Australia and Canada who struggled initially to get jobs because they only hired NUIG and Trinity students, purely for the fact they hired them before and they were good. They had enough applications to turn away perfectly good engineers. Again, the people with 1.1's got jobs straight away. I still would not let that be a deciding factor. Once you have your work experience, your degree almost becomes meaningless.

From an academic point emigrating, the fact I had my degree from DCU made no difference. I looked at other Colleges, some in America and England and was encouraged to apply. I choose DCU because my supervisor was/is fantastic and the funding was far less competitive, in fact there essentially was no competition for it.

Also just to point out to the OP. The old "advice" was to get your degree from anywhere and your Masters from a glamorous University. This is no longer the case, in Ireland all the courses are 5 year courses with the Masters in built at the €2500 registration fee. If you were to stop after 4 years and go to Trinity/UCD, you would be paying the full fees there. New Engineers Ireland regulations came into effect.

These are just my experiences and opinions. Once your degree is from the usual Universities, I have found it has made little difference. It is your work experience and grades that matters.

Mr Pseudonym

@bren2001 Thank you for encouragement! I'm interested in your throw-away about MIT Engineering. Can you elaborate slightly? Is it because the credit requirements is too lenient?

I fully concur with what was said regarding the benefit of a I.I. And getting at least a II.I is essential.

This article is almost ten years old, but it supports what one would imagine, which is that the prestige of the university from which one received their undergraduate degree gets at least some consideration when applying for a postgrad at top unis.

bren2001

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

@bren2001 Thank you for encouragement! I'm interested in your throw-away about MIT Engineering. Can you elaborate slightly? Is it because the credit requirements is too lenient?

I fully concur with what was said regarding the benefit of a I.I. And getting at least a II.I is essential.

This article is almost ten years old, but it supports what one would imagine, which is that the prestige of the university from which one received their undergraduate degree gets at least some consideration when applying for a postgrad at top unis.

I worked for a semiconductor device company in Dublin. NASA was buying some products and I ended up handling some of it. They had MIT, Caltech and Pennsylvania graduates. The arrogance off the MIT people was unreal and it was clear they did not know what they were doing. Caltech and Penn people were fantastic, really knew their stuff and didnt waste my time. When I started my PhD I got talking to one of my lecturers who used to work over in MIT. I ended up looking at their course structure and layout and it is abysmal. They obviously get to cherry pick students, some based on money and some on academic credit. Throw them into a room and give them a few projects and at the end, hope they are engineers. Caltech and Penn have fantastic projects and structures. From talking to that lecturer, it is far harder to get into them with just money, they have strict academic acceptance criteria.

When applying for a postgrad, where you got your degree from can be important. Especially outside of Ireland. However, it is not as simple as Trinity is the best, then UCD etc. Different fields of Engineering will hold different prestige. UCD is well known for Civil, UL are known for Electronics etc. I'm not too sure whether students should be taking this into too much consideration at the start. Engineering is very different to what students expect. Quite maths intensive, extremely long hours with very little practical work. Most people are just glad to be out at the end.

eyescreamcone

bren2001 wrote: »

I worked for a semiconductor device company in Dublin. NASA was buying some products and I ended up handling some of it. They had MIT, Caltech and Pennsylvania graduates. The arrogance off the MIT people was unreal and it was clear they did not know what they were doing. Caltech and Penn people were fantastic, really knew their stuff and didnt waste my time. When I started my PhD I got talking to one of my lecturers who used to work over in MIT. I ended up looking at their course structure and layout and it is abysmal. They obviously get to cherry pick students, some based on money and some on academic credit. Throw them into a room and give them a few projects and at the end, hope they are engineers. Caltech and Penn have fantastic projects and structures. From talking to that lecturer, it is far harder to get into them with just money, they have strict academic acceptance criteria.

When applying for a postgrad, where you got your degree from can be important. Especially outside of Ireland. However, it is not as simple as Trinity is the best, then UCD etc. Different fields of Engineering will hold different prestige. UCD is well known for Civil, UL are known for Electronics etc. I'm not too sure whether students should be taking this into too much consideration at the start. Engineering is very different to what students expect. Quite maths intensive, extremely long hours with very little practical work. Most people are just glad to be out at the end.

What are the Uk MEng 4 year degrees like in quality and reputation?

Are Oxbridge and Imperial much better than anything we have to offer?

eyescreamcone

Do all Irish universities offer the 5 year masters now?

bren2001

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What are the Uk MEng 4 year degrees like in quality and reputation?

Are Oxbridge and Imperial much better than anything we have to offer?

Imperial and Cambridge are very respected Universities. Cambridge has very clear links with MIT and a very similar structure. In the academic world their degrees would be well regarded, I literally just started doing some work with a lecturer in Cambridge, I'm sure I'll be talking to him about their structure when I am over with him in the summer.

Do they offer anything better than here? No. Academically you are better set up with an elite university behind you. From a jobs perspective, it makes no difference in Ireland, it might do in England, I have no idea. But do you actually know any more? Not at all. Typically the "elite" universities go a little bit more in depth theoretically with less hands on stuff.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Do all Irish universities offer the 5 year masters now?

Most are set up now as 4+1. Meaning you get your B.Eng at the end of 4 with a 1 year add on for the 5th year. You must get a 2.2 in your degree but you automatically qualify. There is a system in place where if you continue through you get the 5th year at the normal price of 2500e. If you switch Universities this is not the case. Some Universities still remain at 2500e, some don't e.g. DCU is a little over 2500e regardless of where your degree is from.

eyescreamcone

bren2001 wrote: »

Imperial and Cambridge are very respected Universities. Cambridge has very clear links with MIT and a very similar structure. In the academic world their degrees would be well regarded, I literally just started doing some work with a lecturer in Cambridge, I'm sure I'll be talking to him about their structure when I am over with him in the summer.

Do they offer anything better than here? No. Academically you are better set up with an elite university behind you. From a jobs perspective, it makes no difference in Ireland, it might do in England, I have no idea. But do you actually know any more? Not at all. Typically the "elite" universities go a little bit more in depth theoretically with less hands on stuff.



Most are set up now as 4+1. Meaning you get your B.Eng at the end of 4 with a 1 year add on for the 5th year. You must get a 2.2 in your degree but you automatically qualify. There is a system in place where if you continue through you get the 5th year at the normal price of 2500e. If you switch Universities this is not the case. Some Universities still remain at 2500e, some don't e.g. DCU is a little over 2500e regardless of where your degree is from.

Very informative post thank you.

UCD do a 3+2 system as well as a 4+1 I think - what's the difference?

Some universities like UCC don't seem to offer much choice for the masters element of this new system.

bren2001

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Very informative post thank you.

UCD do a 3+2 system as well as a 4+1 I think - what's the difference?

Some universities like UCC don't seem to offer much choice for the masters element of this new system.

It varies with each institution of course. Not everywhere has adapted to the new Engineers Ireland entry requirements. Some places still just do the basic degree.

The 4+1 in UCD is a BEng and MEng. The 3+2 is a BSc and MEng. For the BSc you do the same first 3 years but then leave with a degree. A BSc Engineering means you have a broader understanding without specialising. It is not recognised by EI. The BEng is a specialist degree recognised by EI (but not enough to become chartered).

The 4+1 route is the better way to go from an engineering point of view.