Student Pilot - Radio communication Guide?

Landoflemon

Just a quick question from a student pilot getting in to my cross country training.

Is there a good guide anywhere that tells you how to make effective/efficient communication with control towers in controlled airspace? The syntax, terminology and order of the communications being particularly important.

For example the type of things that would be said when opening a flight plan, seeking permission to land/take-off, moving from, for example Shannon controlled airspace to Kerry controlled airspace.

I'm sorry if my question is a bit vague, I'm just uncomfortable with radio communications in general. Any advice would be appreciated.

Bill G

I found these guides very helpful:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP41320Editionto4April2013_ISBN9780117928206.pdf

https://easa.europa.eu/essi/egast/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/EGAST_Radiotelephony-guide-for-VFR-pilots.pdf

Not everything pertains to Irish ATC (Traffic Service, etc) but should be a good starter

Landoflemon

Thanks a lot, the 2nd link in particular looks very user-friendly!

Dublinflyer

Have a listen to the live ATC feeds for Dublin airport. You will pick up the syntax very quickly. It does tend to vary from area to area but you will hear that when you are on frequency. Have you not been on the radio much yet, I would have expect that if you are at the stage of cross country you should be brought up to a set level of RT by your instructor.

Landoflemon

I'll have a listen to the Live ATC. Just don't have experience in controlled airspace, so not used to the RT aspect of it. Trying to make sure that I'm doing it correctly is all.

Dublinflyer

Controllers are pretty relaxed here with student pilots once you don't try start a conversation with them. I am sure you will be fine. Keep it brief and to the point and make sure the read backs are clear. Once you do the first few in controlled airspace you won't even think about it.

PapaQuebec

Landoflemon wrote: »

Just a quick question from a student pilot getting in to my cross country training.

Is there a good guide anywhere that tells you how to make effective/efficient communication with control towers in controlled airspace? The syntax, terminology and order of the communications being particularly important.

For example the type of things that would be said when opening a flight plan, seeking permission to land/take-off, moving from, for example Shannon controlled airspace to Kerry controlled airspace.

I'm sorry if my question is a bit vague, I'm just uncomfortable with radio communications in general. Any advice would be appreciated.

I have a RT Comms training CD. Give me a shout if you want a copy

Can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yi275lki407mkkt/iE3JEVX6VK

Landoflemon

Dublinflyer wrote: »

Controllers are pretty relaxed here with student pilots once you don't try start a conversation with them. I am sure you will be fine. Keep it brief and to the point and make sure the read backs are clear. Once you do the first few in controlled airspace you won't even think about it.

Thanks for the advice

Dublinflyer

I can remember many years ago when I was a PPL student I was making one of my first solo flights so I was concentrating very hard on the flying and navigating. I made the rt call to say I was turning on finals and just got completely tongue tied in the process. I took my finger off the button so I could swear at myself very loudly, "ah F$%K it" I believe were the words I used. I then made the rt call correctly and landed. It was only when I made it back to the flight office I was told that the button did not release and I had given everyone on frequency a good laugh!

Landoflemon

Ha! Yeah, last time I was up and in controlled airspace, after muddling through the radio transmission I just saw my instructors face lowering into his hands in embarrassment/frustration, so I've decided I need to brush up on that!

PapaQuebec

@landoflemon
I've added a link to my previous post
You can download the VFR RT Comms CD and the UK Airspace Supplement CD from it

Landoflemon

PapaQuebec wrote: »

@landoflemon
I've added a link to my previous post
You can download the VFR RT Comms CD and the UK Airspace Supplement CD from it

Currently downloading, thanks for the help!

PapaQuebec

Landoflemon wrote: »

Currently downloading, thanks for the help!

Pleasure!

Please post when you have completed the downloads so I can free up some dropbox space
Thanks

folbotcar

As student pilot Dublin airport isn't the ideal as it's mostly airline traffic. Listening in on the Weston frequency would be better. Also Shannon 127.5, on a summer weekend when there's plenty of GA traffic. You can learn quite a lot from all the mistakes made by inexperienced pilots as well as hearing how it should be done.

Pilots I've heard on cross countries make common mistakes include waffling on as if you were telling the controller your life story They're not interested and you're blocking the frequency. Better to keep it brief and too the point. On the other hand, not too brief, pilots leave out necessary bits of information forcing the controller to ask. The most common is failing to provide an ETA on initial contact. The controller will ask for it. Quite often the reply is 'Eh standby' and I smile to myself as I imagine the panic in the cockpit as our hapless hero tries to figure it out. Another common mistake on initial contact is to fail to mention whether you're on a flight plan or not. The controllers are not psychic so tell them it's information only or ask them to activate the flight plan on initial contact.

If all else fails, don't panic and keep it simple and also using the 'Student pilot' call sign let's everyone know you're not Chuck Yeager.....yet.

Dublinflyer

folbotcar wrote: »

Quite often the reply is 'Eh standby' and I smile to myself as I imagine the panic in the cockpit as our hapless hero tries to figure it out.

That's just mean

Landoflemon

PapaQuebec wrote: »

Pleasure!

Please post when you have completed the downloads so I can free up some dropbox space
Thanks

@ PapaQuebec

Just letting you know I've fininshed the downloads, thanks.

@folbotcar

Thanks for the good advice, I'm sure it'll be fine and I'll find it to be 2nd nature in no time, just need to get to grips with it. I don't think anyone would be confusing me with Chuck Yeager!

KnotABother

I think it is worth pointing out that ATC feeds are 99% filled with guys with CPL/IRs and really bad habits and phraseology. It will give you an idea of what a controller may say to you but I would pay little attention to the responses given by pilots as they are usually very badly phrased and lazy from an RT point of view. I would go to the books to learn what should and should not be said(or indeed what need not be said) and work from there. If you are looking at doing a CPL and/or IR it is best to get good RT skills and phraseology down early because examiners will rip you out of it at CPL/IR level for unnecessary/poor calls and/or readbacks as it clogs up the frequency with rubbish. You would be surprised how often "Wilco" or "Copy" would suffice when being passed info.

When I was flying in a pattern before I heard an aircraft coming in for an ILS who reported something along the lines of "ABC inbound at 15 on 320 at 6 for 10" there was a brief silence before the controller came back and said "Roger ABC call final with actual information"

BonkeyDonker

folbotcar wrote: »

If all else fails, don't panic and keep it simple and also using the 'Student pilot' call sign let's everyone know you're not Chuck Yeager.....yet.

i was taught when I was doing my training to use this on first contact with a new ATC unit - if only for the reason folbotcar stated - it lets ATC know you a student and to go nicely on you. Not that they don't all the time, but in my experience they tend to be more attentive, and even speak a bit slower

Xpro

Send me your email, I can forward you a student RT manual for Irish pilots, pdf book

folbotcar

Dublinflyer wrote: »

That's just mean

Yes I'm evil!

But it is very common. It's almost the exception for a GA pilot to offer an ETA to the controller on first contact. So I lost sympathy!

Johnny901

Its hard to know sometimes with ATC what they actually want when you first call. Sometimes just callsign and let them ask for whatever they need after that. I would have thought with all the fancy equipment they would already have an ETA from the radar ?

folbotcar

Johnny901 wrote: »

Its hard to know sometimes with ATC what they actually want when you first call. Sometimes just callsign and let them ask for whatever they need after that. I would have thought with all the fancy equipment they would already have an ETA from the radar ?

No, even if there was 'fancy equipment' like that. How would they know where you're going particularly if you're not on a flight plan? They may not even have you radar if you're low level and far away.

It isn't hard to know what ATC wants on first contact. There are certain basic requirements.They want to know who you are, where you're going, your altitude, your position, your ETA and your squawk . if you have a flight plan filed you either ask them to activate it or tell them it's information only.

A simple example: Shannon Information, Echo India XXX, out of Abbeyshrule routing to Kilkenny, ETA 13:45, 2000 feet squawking 7000, information only.

That's all the controller needs to know. It's all there in your initial call. Commonly pilots leave out the ETA or failed to indicate whether or not they're on a flight plan.

Obviously that's just one easy example. Each situation has it's own variation. Obviously it reduces the controller's workload but most importantly your workload. Less time talking more time aviating.

Also before anyone thinks I know it all. I regularly get it completely wrong and provide some comedy moments on the frequency.:( One of my most embarrassing was many years ago when I was aimlessly wandering around just west of the Dublin zone in the vicinity of Trim. When suddenly the controller asked me for my position. He knew dam well as he had me on radar. Taken by surprise I ummed and aaahed even though I knew the area well. At that point he assumed I was lost, as did everyone else on frequency and not wanting me blundering into his zone. He started giving me radar vectors back to Weston! Mortifying.:o Lesson learned.

Fionn101

at the risk of ruining myself , I will mention that when Microsoft had Flight Sim , with the Air Traffic Controllers and online servers , the Radio Talk there was fairly by the book and a great place to practice with a real person without the cost.

I would now class this as a fun study aid , but in all fairness it really helped me (I mean my friend) get past the initial parlance.

as folbotcar said , listening on the Weston Frequency will be slightly better for you than listening to Dublin Airport.

Lastly , ask someone at your club to practice some radio calls with you , you will need to provide the coffee and biscuits for this though.

Hope this helps , oh and one last rule I try to remember before calling ATC :
Who you are , Where you are , what your doing , and how long will it take... this is what ATC want to know .

Safe Skies,
Fionn