Changing and upgrading MPV

bensboys

Hello All,

Looking to trade up for our current MPV (Citroen Grand C4 Picasso 2008).

I only have it 2 years but there have been quite a few problems with it, new clutch, locked electronic handbrake etc and frankly I just don't trust it with our 3 children 7,4 and 2.

Will probably go for am MPV again and I am considering a Kia Carens, the 7 year warranty is very tempting or would I better choosing an older model SMAX or Peugeot 5008?

All opinions appreciated!

Guy:Incognito

In what way do you not trust it with your kids? It's not really the same as a dog.
A clutch will go in any manual car tbh. It could possibly have been down to the way the previous owner or yourselves use the clutch.
The 5008 is the same car too.

bensboys

I don't trust it with the children from the perspective of if I break down or if the car is out of action for a while it is awkward, if I have a breakdown or the car it out of action and the children are with me it is a complete disaster.

I suppose I am unsure as to whether I was unlucky with the car I bought or if these are issues from Citroen's generally.

bazz26

Have a look at the Ford Grand C-Max or S-Max too.

stimpson

I have a 2011 Verso - boring as hell, but never missed a beat in 2 1/2 years of ownership.

NIMAN

Honda FR-V.

6 full size seats

Jaden

FRV +1

Picked one up two weeks ago, after 4 years on a Hyundai Tragedy.

Now I drive a safe reliable car, as opposed to a Diesel Processing s**tbox in the form of a van with windows.

Del2005

bensboys wrote: »

I don't trust it with the children from the perspective of if I break down or if the car is out of action for a while it is awkward, if I have a breakdown or the car it out of action and the children are with me it is a complete disaster.

I suppose I am unsure as to whether I was unlucky with the car I bought or if these are issues from Citroen's generally.

You can be unlucky with any car no matter how reliable the brand is and you can also get very reliable cars from manufacturers with bad reliability. Clutch is a consumable which has now been changed so should last a good few years. Electric handbrakes give trouble in a lot of brands.

If worried about break downs join the AA or RAC, insurance recovery can be Ok depending on the company and policy you take out.

stimpson

Warranty Direct's index seems to think the C4 Picasso is particularly bad:

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/70

walus

Jaden wrote: »

FRV +1

Picked one up two weeks ago, after 4 years on a Hyundai Tragedy.

Now I drive a safe reliable car, as opposed to a Diesel Processing s**tbox in the form of a van with windows.

I've the FRV as well. Great interior that can seat 6 people no problem. On top of that it is very reliable as it is Honda. I looked into getting a MPV for long, long time and overall there is no better MPV on the market at the moment.

bensboys

Jaden wrote: »

FRV +1

Picked one up two weeks ago, after 4 years on a Hyundai Tragedy.

Now I drive a safe reliable car, as opposed to a Diesel Processing s**tbox in the form of a van with windows.

Do you know what year these go up to couldn't see any beyond 2008 for sale on line?

bazz26

They were discontinued in 2009 here.

walus

It is best to look for one registered before July 2008 - taxed based on engine capacity (640 euros) rather than by emission (750 euros). From 2007 to 2009 they were unchanged spec wise anyway.

Zubeneschamali

bensboys wrote: »

Will probably go for am MPV again and I am considering a Kia Carens, the 7 year warranty is very tempting or would I better choosing an older model SMAX or Peugeot 5008?

I drive an S-Max, and with 3 kids and a dog, the Carens would not be big enough for us. The S-Max is also better to drive, if you care, but a lot more expensive than smaller machines.

Peugeot is a sister company of Citroen, and unlikely to be a lot more reliable.

NIMAN

Good thing about the FRV too is the fact that you can seat 6 adults.
Most of these 7 seaters can only accommodate 2 small children in seats 6 & 7.
Plus you have your kids about 6 inches from any rear collision. I feel a lot safer having mine in an FRV with a full boot behind them.

walus

NIMAN wrote: »

Good thing about the FRV too is the fact that you can seat 6 adults.
Most of these 7 seaters can only accommodate 2 small children in seats 6 & 7.
Plus you have your kids about 6 inches from any rear collision. I feel a lot safer having mine in an FRV with a full boot behind them.

Plus is small on the outside and drives like a regular hatchback which for MPV is a big plus.

Jaden

walus wrote: »

Plus is small on the outside and drives like a regular hatchback which for MPV is a big plus.

You really can't overstate this. It drives like a car. If you've had a big MPV beforehand, it's a revelation. Parking is all of a sudden no big deal anymore.

Zubeneschamali

NIMAN wrote: »

Good thing about the FRV too is the fact that you can seat 6 adults.

The one in the front middle had better be very small or a very good friend of the opposite sex.

The Multipla had 6 seats all the same size. The FRV did not.

walus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The one in the front middle had better be very small or a very good friend of the opposite sex.

The Multipla had 6 seats all the same size. The FRV did not.

You can push the middle seats in both rows back up to 8 inches I think. That will give you enough shoulder room to seat 6 adults no problem. Multipla, well, the only thing it has in common with FRV is 6 seats, really. The rest is far inferior.

walus

At some point I considered Renault Scenic but a quick drive around the roundabout cured me from such idea. I nearly fell of the seat as the car has a really soft suspension and leans deep into corners. All in all FRV is very responsive and as a previous driver of Legacy I can tell that it handles well too. The only drawback that I can see is wide A pillar that a driver has to learn to live with and very limited number vehicles available for purchase second hand. They stopped making them in 2009 so now is a good time to buy a good 2007/09 one. Also they only come in 1.8 petrol flavor unless you are prepared to bring one from UK where 2.2cdti are also available.

NIMAN

The FRV is not as wide as you think it is, and you soon get used to it after a few days of driving like its as wide as a bus!

I think I remember reading it was same width as a CMax, but find that hard to believe.

Agree that the small exterior size of it is a bonus. It doesn't feel like you are driving a big car or MPV. Ok some aren't overly mad about its looks and they are an aquired taste, but from most angles it looks nice (just not from the front and rear!).

Also, the middle front seat seems to be full size to me, plus you have the option of pushing it and the centre rear back a bit so they are all offset to each other, meanign more elbow room.



Just looking at that photo, and indeed the front centre seat does appear narrower. Not by much though.

Zubeneschamali

NIMAN wrote: »

Just looking at that photo, and indeed the front centre seat does appear narrower. Not by much though.

The middle front and middle back seats are smaller than the drivers seat or front left passenger seat.

It's normal in mid-size MPVs to squish the middle back seat or put in 3 small seats. The Multipla was the only one where all the seats were the same size as the drivers.

jingojonson

HI there

can I ask the frv owners about boot size? thinking of getting one but the boot from pictures seems small.

also how are they on petrol

J

walus

Boot is about 450 liters big, same capacity as a family saloon.
In terms of mpg it all depends on type of driving you will be doing. On a long run on under 100 kph road I'm getting about 7.5 l/100km. In town on short runs 11.5 l/100km. That said it is an automatic which would be by default heavier on juice.

NIMAN

I find my boot space excellent, bigger than I expected in a vehicle which can seat 6 people.

As for mpg, I have never clocked it. Must do that some day!

bensboys

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I drive an S-Max, and with 3 kids and a dog, the Carens would not be big enough for us. The S-Max is also better to drive, if you care, but a lot more expensive than smaller machines.

Peugeot is a sister company of Citroen, and unlikely to be a lot more reliable.

Test drove the Opel zafira tourer today and liked it. Are there any issues I should be aware of?

Zubeneschamali

bensboys wrote: »

Test drove the Opel zafira tourer today and liked it. Are there any issues I should be aware of?

Quite pricey, at that money I'd definitely have an S-Max:

S-Max 2.0 TDCI 140PS ZETEC € 32,891
Zafira Tourer 2 .0 CDTI ECOFLEX 130PS SE S/S € 31,495

bensboys

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Quite pricey, at that money I'd definitely have an S-Max:

S-Max 2.0 TDCI 140PS ZETEC € 32,891
Zafira Tourer 2 .0 CDTI ECOFLEX 130PS SE S/S € 31,495

Looking at both new and used. The best price I can get is about 34500 for the smax or 27000 with my Citroen c4 grand Picasso 08 and a 4 month wait. I can get a zafira tourer 2.0 cdti ecoflex 160ps se with sat nav for 20 with my own. I just haven't seen many of the Opel's around or heard much about them.

Zubeneschamali

bensboys wrote: »

Looking at both new and used. The best price I can get is about 34500 for the smax or 27000 with my Citroen c4 grand Picasso 08 and a 4 month wait. I can get a zafira tourer 2.0 cdti ecoflex 160ps se with sat nav for 20 with my own. I just haven't seen many of the Opel's around or heard much about them.

Hard to judge the deal unless we know how old the Zafira is. Your C4 is about 11K retail at a dealer, so the Ford man seems to be offering roughly no discount at all on the S-Max. Must still be selling OK.

bensboys

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Hard to judge the deal unless we know how old the Zafira is. Your C4 is about 11K retail at a dealer, so the Ford man seems to be offering roughly no discount at all on the S-Max. Must still be selling OK.

The zafira tourer is a 132.....

Guy:Incognito

Have you had a good mess around with the Zafira? I've had them as hire cars 2 or 3 times and hate them. The middle bench seat and not being able to lift or drop the seats in the boot without moving the middle row is a pain. I had a pain in my back from the seat after an hour or so in it.

Zubeneschamali

bensboys wrote: »

The zafira tourer is a 132.....

So say 27K retail- similar enough trade in value for your C4.

All the demo S-Maxes I see for sale are the 1.6 TDCi, I'd say the 160 Zafira would leave them a long way behind.

Zubeneschamali

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The middle bench seat and not being able to lift or drop the seats in the boot without moving the middle row is a pain..

The Zafira Tourer is a new model, not that old crapbox - 7 individual seats.

bensboys

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The Zafira Tourer is a new model, not that old crapbox - 7 individual seats.

Yeah the tourer has 3 independent seats on the 2nd row, hoping to negotiate a bit more on the tourer on the basis of a much better finance cost on the smax

bensboys

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So say 27K retail- similar enough trade in value for your C4.

All the demo S-Maxes I see for sale are the 1.6 TDCi, I'd say the 160 Zafira would leave them a long way behind.

Just got a price of 26300 for the smax 2 ltr new with metallic paint.

Can't decide which is a better buy.

142 2ltr zetec smax for 26.3k
132 2ltr cdti 160ps with sat nav + bike rack for 20.5k

Decisions decisions.....

Zubeneschamali

bensboys wrote: »

Decisions decisions.....

If you drove both and don't feel a difference, save your cash and get the Opel.

If you didn't drive a 2l S-Max, then organize that before you buy.

bazz26

Just be aware that there is a new S Max being launched from next year.

Zubeneschamali

bazz26 wrote: »

Just be aware that there is a new S Max being launched from next year.

Yes, but given that it's a Ford, I'd say it's 50-50 whether the new one will be better or worse than the current one. They have a habit of launching something new and good that gets great reviews, and then replacing it with something blander that's cheaper to build.

SmithySeller

I'm curious to see what the OP did, did you buy in the end?

bensboys

SmithySeller wrote: »

I'm curious to see what the OP did, did you buy in the end?

I went the zafira tourer and got a great deal of 19.6k, it also has an integrated bike rack in the rear bumper which I'd great. I love it!

SmithySeller

Will probably do the same. I've driven them all now, old, new, auto, electronic etc etc. The Zafira Tourer seems to give me the best bang for buck, albeit, a Vauxhall from the UK and probably 2013 model. I'll probably get a Tech Line trim, they don't sell them here, but I have to say I'll miss the lounge seating from the SE trim.
I simply cannot justify an S-Max, its the biggest of the 5+2 Cars and very nice to drive, but the 1.6 I found very under powered, even compared to the Peugeot 5008 with the same engine, and dare I say, dated. The fact that the Tourer Tech Line are all pretty much the EcoFlex model means lower Tax (€200), lower VRT to import and the has very decent kit as standard has this car winning out for me at the moment. It was a decent drive also!