Redundancy -if company changes name am i entitled to redundancy

Bella_Lyn86

Hi there- hopefully someone will know more and can shed some light.

working with a company (7-8 years) this company is in the process of been purchased by another existing company, a merge of both is going to take place but the company will then trade under a NEW name and the old one is completely gone.

Hasn't been confirmed yet but seems as part of the new deal contracts will be carried over to cover at least 18-24 months , so there is no definite after this time frame.

To me it seems that this 18-24 months guarantee of a job is a way out of been paid redundancy for the time I have worked there.

My question really is can I look for redundancy payment from the old company and still have my 18-24 months new contract with the new company considering the business name will change and will have new owners?

Thanks in advance

Tabnabs

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

Hi there- hopefully someone will know more and can shed some light.

working with a company (7-8 years) this company is in the process of been purchased by another existing company, a merge of both is going to take place but the company will then trade under a NEW name and the old one is completely gone.

Hasn't been confirmed yet but seems as part of the new deal contracts will be carried over to cover at least 18-24 months , so there is no definite after this time frame.

To me it seems that this 18-24 months guarantee of a job is a way out of been paid redundancy for the time I have worked there.

My question really is can I look for redundancy payment from the old company and still have my 18-24 months new contract with the new company considering the business name will change and will have new owners?

Thanks in advance

Under Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 your previous contract would be carried over and you can't just be made redundant within the framework of the new employment arrangement. (AFAIK, seek legal advice for full answer)

You also can't seek redundancy as your contract will effectively remain unchanged.

Bella_Lyn86

Tabnabs wrote: »

Under Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 your previous contract would be carried over and you can't just be made redundant within the framework of the new employment arrangement. (AFAIK, seek legal advice for full answer)

You also can't seek redundancy as your contract will effectively remain unchanged.

But my contract will change - If the change wasn't happening there would be no 18-24 months time frame put on my job as I am now full time pernament position

If we put the merge of companies to the side for a sec, if this wasn't happening my job would be safe.
Because of the new name it will mean two companies merging and my now job will end up trading under a new name.Two companies are joining down the line employees will need to but cut as there will be too many employees versus the roles
By them stating the 18-24 months at this stage is alarming as if I let it get to the stage of not questioning it and going along with the change it would mean I would be a employee of the new name company and be too late to question redundancy at that stage with the old comany

Stheno

Are the terms and conditions of your current contract changing, or are you simply getting the same terms and conditions in a contract with the new company?

Bigcheeze

If you are made redundant in 18-24 months time you will be treated as having 9-10 years service.

Bella_Lyn86

Bigcheeze wrote: »

If you are made redundant in 18-24 months time you will be treated as having 9-10 years service.

Is there anywhere on the web I could find this ? I have been searching and cant see anything that would mean this would happen

Bella_Lyn86

Stheno wrote: »

Are the terms and conditions of your current contract changing, or are you simply getting the same terms and conditions in a contract with the new company?

Didn't get a new contract (yet, not sure if a new one will be drafted up even ), but as far as I know everything like hours , salary etc remain the same . But the fact they are mentioning now even before the change happens about the 18-24 months is concerning

srsly78

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/transfer_of_business.html

JackieChan

Didn't get a new contract (yet, not sure if a new one will be drafted up even ), but as far as I know everything like hours , salary etc remain the same . But the fact they are mentioning now even before the change happens about the 18-24 months is concerning

I've been through a TUPE - Transfer of Undertakings(Protection of Employment) and this was between two different companies as part of an outsourcing and service is carried across. Its some time ago but I think the biggest issue was with pensions as we had DB and the company we went to only had DC plans.

Bella_Lyn86

srsly78 wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/transfer_of_business.html

Thanks !

From what is on this link all matches: that as the job , terms , salary and hours will remain the same.
But the fact the new company are saying that applies for 18-24 months is whats getting me

Even though the contract details are staying the same , if this change wasnt happening there wouldnt be a period of time attached to my contract as i am full time and permanent

srsly78

The terms are not staying the same then.

Stheno

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

Thanks !

From what is on this link all matches: that as the job , terms , salary and hours will remain the same.
But the fact the new company are saying that applies for 18-24 months is whats getting me

Even though the contract details are staying the same , if this change wasnt happening there wouldnt be a period of time attached to my contract as i am full time and permanent

From a few friends who have been TUPED, this is normal for a timeframe to be attached to your terms and conditions being the same.

It's usually 18-24 months from what I've observed.

So your job is safe for that time, but there are no guarantees after that.

Bella_Lyn86

Stheno wrote: »

From a few friends who have been TUPED, this is normal for a timeframe to be attached to your terms and conditions being the same.

It's usually 18-24 months from what I've observed.

So your job is safe for that time, but there are no guarantees after that.

that's exactly my point, because the new company are now putting a time frame on my contract ( which i never had with current company ) should i not be entitled to apply for redundancy from my current employer before the change takes place and still be allowed to continue to work the 18-24 months with the new company?

Stheno

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

that's exactly my point, because the new company are now putting a time frame on my contract ( which i never had with current company ) should i not be entitled to apply for redundancy from my current employer before the change takes place and still be allowed to continue to work the 18-24 months with the new company?

No, your job is not redundant at this time, it is being transferred to a new company who are obliged under TUPE to provide you with the same terms and conditions and can do so for a specific timeframe.

Nothing about this says that your job will be redundant in 18-24 months

Nody

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

that's exactly my point, because the new company are now putting a time frame on my contract ( which i never had with current company ) should i not be entitled to apply for redundancy from my current employer before the change takes place and still be allowed to continue to work the 18-24 months with the new company?

No you're not because your position is not redundant. All they have said is that in 18 to 24 months time there MAY be changes but that's it (and your current company could have changes planned in 12 months and not have to tell you as a reference). If and when those changes come you MAY have a redundancy situation but not right now you do not and will not short of them telling you that your position will be terminated.

Bella_Lyn86

Nody wrote: »

No you're not because your position is not redundant. All they have said is that in 18 to 24 months time there MAY be changes but that's it (and your current company could have changes planned in 12 months and not have to tell you as a reference). If and when those changes come you MAY have a redundancy situation but not right now you do not and will not short of them telling you that your position will be terminated.

ok so, if down the line when the 18-24 month is up and then there is mention of redundancy , from when will it be calculated ? Original start date or start date with new company name ?

Stheno

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

ok so, if down the line when the 18-24 month is up and then there is mention of redundancy , from when will it be calculated ? Original start date or start date with new company name ?

Read the link a few posts up, your length of service transfers

johnb25

Stheno wrote: »

No, your job is not redundant at this time, it is being transferred to a new company who are obliged under TUPE to provide you with the same terms and conditions and can do so for a specific timeframe.

Nothing about this says that your job will be redundant in 18-24 months

When the merger happens, check your new contract to ensure it says that your service with the current company carries over to the new company. That should allay your concerns. If you do get laid off in future you will get your full entitlement.

Bella_Lyn86

Ok basically it means have no other choice but continue to work away and see what happens 18-24 months after the change.

Another concern is like i said above , because my now company is merging with the exact same type of business with the exact same skilled employees in the same field, when the time comes for cuts to be made how can this be decided ?

If it was a case that i would have to re- interview for my role, and i am not offered the job , will i be entitled to redundancy then or is it tough paddy ?

Thanks for the replies

Bella_Lyn86

Nody wrote: »

No you're not because your position is not redundant. All they have said is that in 18 to 24 months time there MAY be changes but that's it (and your current company could have changes planned in 12 months and not have to tell you as a reference). If and when those changes come you MAY have a redundancy situation but not right now you do not and will not short of them telling you that your position will be terminated.

Stheno wrote: »

No, your job is not redundant at this time, it is being transferred to a new company who are obliged under TUPE to provide you with the same terms and conditions and can do so for a specific timeframe.

Nothing about this says that your job will be redundant in 18-24 months

Stheno wrote: »

Read the link a few posts up, your length of service transfers

Thanks

Mrs OBumble

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

when the time comes for cuts to be made how can this be decided ?

If it was a case that i would have to re- interview for my role, and i am not offered the job , will i be entitled to redundancy then or is it tough paddy ?

Thanks for the replies

Yes, you can be made redundant at any time it is decided that your role is no longer required - this includes when they decided that there's only enough work for one of whatever it is that you do, not two.

AFAIK, it can be decided on any basis except The Big Nine (age, gender, race, family status, disability etc .. covered by the equality legislation).

There may be some case law which suggests that it has to be one some factor that's relevant to your employment (eg performance rating) rather than in irrelevant one (eg boob size) - but I'm really not an expert, and we probably cannot give advice at that lvel here.

mari2222

At the moment you could presumably be let go with a months notice, but once your job transfers you are guaranteed to be there for 18-24 months.............so that is better for you.

Bella_Lyn86

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, you can be made redundant at any time it is decided that your role is no longer required - this includes when they decided that there's only enough work for one of whatever it is that you do, not two.

AFAIK, it can be decided on any basis except The Big Nine (age, gender, race, family status, disability etc .. covered by the equality legislation).

There may be some case law which suggests that it has to be one some factor that's relevant to your employment (eg performance rating) rather than in irrelevant one (eg boob size) - but I'm really not an expert, and we probably cannot give advice at that lvel here.

thanks for your reply

what if this was a possibility:

4 people (including me) have to re -interview for one available role.
i am not successful , this this still count as been made redundant ? or does it simply mean i have been unsuccessful for the role under the new company name

Basically i am just worried after all the years working here , can they find a way of not paying redundancy IF i loose my job after the change

Bella_Lyn86

mari2222 wrote: »

At the moment you could presumably be let go with a months notice, but once your job transfers you are guaranteed to be there for 18-24 months.............so that is better for you.

true mari2222 but my main concern is not missing out on a redundancy pay i may be entitle too

Nody

Bella_Lyn86 wrote: »

thanks for your reply

what if this was a possibility:

4 people (including me) have to re -interview for one available role.
i am not successful , this this still count as been made redundant ? or does it simply mean i have been unsuccessful for the role under the new company name

Basically i am just worried after all the years working here , can they find a way of not paying redundancy IF i loose my job after the change

You're getting hung up on the wrong topic; as long as it's an exiting company being taken over by another exiting company in Ireland none of your rights change. For all intent and purpose you're at the exact same position as if your company was not taken over in terms of rights, redundancy etc. with the only difference being the name on the front door. What ever they do in your new company turn around and ask yourself what happens if it was your old company and that's the answer basically.

What you need to keep an eye on though are the changes to daily practice; for example when you get a new employee handbook you need to check if there are any noticable differences with your old one etc.